alano12 (Dublin) - Posts: 2208 - 15/06/2016 19:34:34    1867371

Part 2-


The IRFU preside over a professional game. They have less attendances than GAA but rely heavily on marketing because they have to pay their players. Money makes money and many members and players are wealthy and come from finance and marketing backgrounds. It's not coincidence that they have marketing people who can put a positive spin on what's initially seen as a negative. After losing to Argentina in the World Cup, a bad news story you'd think, they're out at the airport kissing babies. Very many of you hate rugby, each to their own I say but I think this is genius marketing. CJ Stander was rightly sent off for peeling the head off Lambie. Very definitely a negative. But following the win, the redcard incident does the round in the media Youtube Vines etc but the lasting impression is not only did Ireland beat The Boks in South Africa but they did so with 14 men for 60 minutes and 13 for part of that!!! Anti-rugby people won't appreciate that but it's very smart spindoctoring. Seems when any media gives a negative report in a GAA story their marketing department do little to dampen it down. Leinster Rugby have radio ads for any matches that aren't sold out. Speculating to accumulate might get some new supporters off the ads. GAA top brass are content to do little marketing outside traditional GAA support in comparison. So RTE do have a kind of bias against GAA it seems but the GAA top brass does our game few favours.

This rant contains very few facts and is purely my own opinion.

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 8168 - 15/06/2016 20:09:45    1867392

i agree with a lot of what u say greenandred..however lets not give the irfu too much credit here..i feel they do a good job but to ignore how biased the coverage and reporting rugby receives from various media sources compared to a lot of other sports but most notably gaa...i dont see the premier league clubs even able to excuse bad incidents and they would have a lot more of a pr department as the media isnt as biased covering them

alano12 (Dublin) - Posts: 2208 - 15/06/2016 20:44:48    1867409

alano12 (Dublin) - Posts: 2208 - 15/06/2016 20:45:59    1867410

Great couple of posts there GreenandRed.
The marketing of games does seem to be a bit of a blind spot for Gaa at times. I remember a few years ago in Dublin, Leinster rugby had posters up around the city to promote a game against Munster. On the poster there was a picture of what looked like a leinster player from 100 years ago, and it said something about being "part of the history". On closer inspection, the player was clearly photo-shopped, but all I could think was how great the same posters would look for GAA because of all the photos of great former players they could have genuinely used, if only the GAA would ever think of things like it!
Likewise, I'd rarely go to the GAA official website, it's slow to update, hard to find what you're looking for, and the archive was pretty bad aswell. It'd make you wonder why rte,tv3, sky or any media outlets would be bothered to put a positive slant on gaelic games if the GAA don't seem half bothered marketing it themselves.

extranjero (Wexford) - Posts: 375 - 15/06/2016 20:47:21    1867414

alano12 (Dublin) - Posts: 2208 - 15/06/2016 21:21:06    1867433

And a good question it is too Jimski.
Top brass in the GAA aren't too bothered about how the game is portrayed in media, aren't overly bothered about looking for new recruits to the game and will do nothing about trying to dampen down bad news incidents usually little more than handbags at down blown out of all proportion by some sections of the media. They're also not providing bang for the buck for taxpayer money spent. Again we will see the spectacle of a less than half empty Croke Park on Saturday and Sunday of August Bank Holiday weekend when we are awash with tourists completely unaware if our amazing games. Other stadia are also less full when some thinking like ticket price reduction for all or some cashback on ticket prices for tourists (already there for them buying goods here) might improve the atmosphere, promote the game abroad, sell a few hats, jersies etc and put a few quid in the pocket of the local chipper, pub, taxi. Do the GAA at national level even have a fulltime professional marketing department to spread the word, home and abroad and spin doctors to give it a more positive image?
GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts:2472 - 15/06/2016 19:34:21TBH its extremely simplistic to say the top people in GAA don't care about how its portrayed in the media. That's an extremely vital part of their role. They are bothered about recruits and getting them into the association as without them they've no future. Reducing ticket prices isn't and wont solve all that you want it to. You need to improve facilities if you want to improve atmosphere.
All the provincial councils as well as centrally in croke park there is marketing department. No organisation the size of the GAA wont have a full large scale marketing department

Top brass GAA are out if touch with grassroots GAA. They want to keep the rich richer and kick the so-called lesser counties down into a B championship. Grassroots officials and volunteers are what is keeping the game going. Many of them in their 60s and 70s and older probably updating their club's Facebook and Twitter pages, updating players on games and training sessions via text or Watsapp because they know that's how the youth of today keep in touch. They'll make newcomers to the area welcome, encourage their kids including non-nationals, to try GAA. They get out and about for fundraising initiatives and they'll get out there in all weather finding sponsors to donate prizes for free, a celeb to be MC. They'll get a fullhouse too for an event in the knowledge that the more there the more money they'll raise for their club. Compare that to a GAA statement after the bank holiday weekend telling you that 58,000 over two games is a great attendance considering so many people are on holidays? In an 82,000 capacity stadium part-paid for with yours and my tax. Why is it never questioned that they don't at least reduce ticket prices to allow more people see the games? I think if you a TV-style takeover replacing top brass with club volunteers/officials showing the iniatives they use to organise and raise funds at club level they'd bring a much better return which could filter back down to grassroots.
GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts:2472 - 15/06/2016 19:34:21I think its nonsense to say that those at the top are out of touch. Yes grassroots volunteers keep the game going at the very basic and introductory levels but that doesn't mean those at the top are out of touch. Creating a B championship is about giving sides more games and realistically a much greater chance of silverware as well as more equal games.
I think you are very naïve if you start thinking about replacing "top brass" with those who are volunteers

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 15/06/2016 21:34:02    1867437

i dont need to promote the gaa...im aware how big and popular it is as the various variables such as club membership, number of clubs, participation numbers, viewing figures, attendances show if you want to check them out...the one issue looking at any data for soccer is the domestic league is performs poorly and the national team has a large bandwagon following with crazy levels of support and viewing figures especially for major tournaments with large lulls in between this...so much of irelands interest in soccer is based on english soccer which is something hard to quantify just how truly big it is but id say its pretty massive"]Alano, I see what you're saying but in fairness I think a lot of our own countrymen and women think the "bandwagon" thing is unique to us. It isn't. Look at Iceland last night for example. According to BBC, there were 30,000 of them in the stadium last night. Or to put it another way, one tenth of their entire population!
You could look at a number of other countries with a similar support, too. Sweden, Denmark for example attract huge followings in tournaments and even at regular qualifiers while their own domestic leagues are very poorly supported."]of course its not unique to us..its very common...when we really back something though im not sure there is anybody quite like us!..look at the support we got for the rugby world cup, mcgregor fights and various football tournaments and gaa teams that have gone on big runs..crazy the support iceland got
alano12 (Dublin) - Posts:90 - 15/06/2016 19:32:31Lots of people going to a game isn't a bandwagon and why do people love to use the word bandwagon and people who go to the bigger events in such a negative fashion? Why so bitter?
It isn't really fair to call Icelanders bandwagoners simply because a lot were in the stadium at games. They qualified for a major tournament for the first ever team for euro2016 so of course a lot of people will attend the competition and go to games.

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 15/06/2016 21:34:13    1867438

MedwayIrish (Wexford) - Posts: 2324 - 15/06/2016 21:56:59    1867444

...the big problem with those on the GAA "bandwagon" is they don't stay on long enough to know the enjoyment of a soggy, frozen, Sunday afternoon in February, watching your county get beat in such exotic locations as Fraher field, Mullingar, O'Kennedy park...

extranjero (Wexford) - Posts: 375 - 15/06/2016 22:22:58    1867456

I didn't say replace them, though in fairness many of them should go. Maybe some of them care but they could be doing a better job. I said that I think some grassroots people who depend on working hard for every penny for their clubs livelihood could do better in a TV-style takeover than fatcats with no ifears of not achieving.They are accountable to nobody with the luxury of amateur players breaking their balls to bring in crowds for no reward that ultimately pay their wage. Them and you and me who pay their tax. Rugby top brass not only have players to pay but are accoubtable to their clubs.

Stadia facilities could be improved definitely, Croke Park is one of the great stadiums in the world and one we should be rightly proud if it. But it'll be less than half full on August Bank holiday weekend and it won't be lack of facilities making a poor atmosphere. On a weekend where there will be thousands upon thousands if tourists within and outside the capital it's a great chance to show them our great games. Not saying reducing ticket prices is the only way to get people in. As I saud maybe give them taxback on tickets the same as they get for buying goods here. Probably loads of incentives that could be thought up to get tourists to game if proactive people put their heads together. There are a few that go to games but I think with plenty of empty seats at hurling and football championship games there should be more encouraged to go.

A B championship may bring more games to weaker counties but they'll never improve their standards in Divisions 3 and 4 with a B championship in the summer. They'd also have to rename the Sam Maguire as the 'Some of Ireland' Football Championship.

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 8168 - 15/06/2016 22:51:12    1867460

alano12 (Dublin) - Posts: 2208 - 16/06/2016 05:46:42    1867494

Alano how are those munster attendances these days?..
down because the team is not winning - the same way dublin attendace dropped to 22k for a qualifier v tipp or the same way my beloved limericks attendance drops from munster championship to qualifier ( i still go - others dont)

.'irish by birth munster by the grace of god'..since the year 2001-2009 more like
not correct - the munster support grew primarily from the support for limerick club rugby in the amateur day. 'crowds of 10k for musnter senior cup matches were common- when the ail started garryowen shannon and munsters could get circa 8000 for a home game - when shannon played garryowen in 1992 there was around 16k at it - munsters v marys in 1993 final got around 22k --- that support base went from club game to provincial game - mind you attendances at club games in limerick has improved a bit in last few years

janesboro (Limerick) - Posts: 1502 - 16/06/2016 10:17:59    1867551

anyway whats so bad about a bandwagon - tipp played waterfor in league in froun of around 8000, if they play in munster final it will be around 45000. Would people prefer they played in from the the same 8000 or in front of the 45000, id prefer the 45000 bandwagon myself -the players deserve it-

janesboro (Limerick) - Posts: 1502 - 16/06/2016 10:19:47    1867553

Of course, you might not have been aiming that at me at all, but half of what you cut and paste was my post. Seriously Ormond, just hit the reply button buddy, it ain't perfect but it causes way less confusion.
MedwayIrish (Wexford) - Posts:1115 - 15/06/2016 21:56:59 I was continuing a discussion that you were apart of so while yes half of what I cut and paste was your post I meant that as I was responding to what you said as well.
By hitting the reply button you cant reply to several people at once. You cant multi quote etc

I didn't say replace them, though in fairness many of them should go. Maybe some of them care but they could be doing a better job. I said that I think some grassroots people who depend on working hard for every penny for their clubs livelihood could do better in a TV-style takeover than fatcats with no ifears of not achieving.They are accountable to nobody with the luxury of amateur players breaking their balls to bring in crowds for no reward that ultimately pay their wage. Them and you and me who pay their tax. Rugby top brass not only have players to pay but are accoubtable to their clubs.
GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts:2473 - 15/06/2016 22:51:12 Why should they go? Grassroots people have no experience of running/organising a multi-faceted national organisation with hundreds of thousands of members. You are completely naïve if you think theyd do better. The head people of GAA are accountable to their members and their bosses.

Stadia facilities could be improved definitely, Croke Park is one of the great stadiums in the world and one we should be rightly proud if it. But it'll be less than half full on August Bank holiday weekend and it won't be lack of facilities making a poor atmosphere. On a weekend where there will be thousands upon thousands if tourists within and outside the capital it's a great chance to show them our great games. Not saying reducing ticket prices is the only way to get people in. As I saud maybe give them taxback on tickets the same as they get for buying goods here. Probably loads of incentives that could be thought up to get tourists to game if proactive people put their heads together. There are a few that go to games but I think with plenty of empty seats at hurling and football championship games there should be more encouraged to go.
A B championship may bring more games to weaker counties but they'll never improve their standards in Divisions 3 and 4 with a B championship in the summer. They'd also have to rename the Sam Maguire as the 'Some of Ireland' Football Championship.
GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts:2473 - 15/06/2016 22:51:12 The GAA have tried get tourists in on many occasions but that's much more difficult than some think it is.
An A/B championship would help improve quality if teams got games and regular ones at that against teams of their standard with a chance if they win B to re-enter A championship and test against top A sides.

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 16/06/2016 12:05:37    1867629

you seem bit touchy on bandwagon?..is this due to it being associated with rugby?...how are those munster attendances these days?...'irish by birth munster by the grace of god'..since the year 2001-2009 more like...not bitter at all...its a natural thing for people to do and happens everywhere in various walks of life most notably sport...but there is certainly a big difference between people consistently turning up and those who only attend the big events....us for instance not being able to fill the aviva yet getting over 80,000 in france is most certainly a bandwagon and theres not too much wrong with it...its great that we are getting such support but lets call it what it is..
alano12 (Dublin) - Posts:94 - 16/06/2016 05:46:42 Not touchy. Just disagree with peoples use of the word as its used in such a dismissive fashion. Munster attendances have dropped after a great period of success followed by retirement of a lot of top class international players and for a period too many of the players not being as good as those who came before.
Us getting over 80'000 in France isn't a bandwagon. Its simply a large event we are entered in that's on for a short, intense period and lots can go. Its over in the space of 2 weeks for us so its not a bandwagon. Munster weren't a bandwagon.

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 16/06/2016 12:05:43    1867630

not correct - the munster support grew primarily from the support for limerick club rugby in the amateur day. 'crowds of 10k for musnter senior cup matches were common- when the ail started garryowen shannon and munsters could get circa 8000 for a home game - when shannon played garryowen in 1992 there was around 16k at it - munsters v marys in 1993 final got around 22k --- that support base went from club game to provincial game - mind you attendances at club games in limerick has improved a bit in last few years
janesboro (Limerick) - Posts:373 - 16/06/2016 10:17:59 Munster support didn't just grow from support for Limerick club rugby. It grew from support for club rugby in Tipp, Cork as much as Limerick. When Munster were storming through Europe. All rugby clubs in Tipp were junior until Nenagh went senior in 2005 and crowds in junior division 1 league games were huge with the division comprised mainly of tipp clubs.

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 16/06/2016 12:05:53    1867632

I just don't get the bandwagon thing as an insult. I mean, if you follow that logic everyone who attends a championship game but not a league one is on the bandwagon? And rugby fans who watch their country or province but not for e.g. Lansdowne RFC? What about the Euros, anyone who doesn't watch Sligo Rovers home and away are on the bandwagon, are they?

That's like failing to understand why more people want to see the Stone Roses live than Bob from down the road who can play a couple of chords when he's had a few.

MedwayIrish (Wexford) - Posts: 2324 - 16/06/2016 12:41:33    1867650

ormondbannerman - Munster support didn't just grow from support for Limerick club rugby. It grew from support for club rugby in Tipp, Cork as much as Limerick. -yeah fair point but the greater club support was in limerick and probably still is- big support for schools game in cork though - and in fairness the tipp clubs nenagh/cashel/clonmel have really grown and come on-- like you in your own post just showing alanno that it wasnt an overnight bandwagon. Have gone down to junior cup games against tipp clubs and alway good support there too

Would i be right in saying the support base for rugby clubs in tipp would have a good GAA crossover? always seemed to me like there was

I just don't get the bandwagon thing as an insult. I mean, if you follow that logic everyone who attends a championship game but not a league one is on the bandwagon? And rugby fans who watch their country or province but not for e.g. Lansdowne RFC? What about the Euros, anyone who doesn't watch Sligo Rovers home and away are on the bandwagon, are they?
That's like failing to understand why more people want to see the Stone Roses live than Bob from down the road who can play a couple of chords when he's had a few.
MedwayIrish (Wexford) - Posts:1121 - 16/06/2016 12:41:33 I do. People say if you only go to bigger games or you start regularly appearing at games when a team is successful that you're a bandwagon supporter and therefore not a "real" supporter.


ormondbannerman - Munster support didn't just grow from support for Limerick club rugby. It grew from support for club rugby in Tipp, Cork as much as Limerick. -yeah fair point but the greater club support was in limerick and probably still is- big support for schools game in cork though - and in fairness the tipp clubs nenagh/cashel/clonmel have really grown and come on-- like you in your own post just showing alanno that it wasnt an overnight bandwagon. Have gone down to junior cup games against tipp clubs and alway good support there too

Would i be right in saying the support base for rugby clubs in tipp would have a good GAA crossover? always seemed to me like there was
janesboro (Limerick) - Posts:374 - 16/06/2016 13:05:27 Yes to an extent. There would be some who do and many who don't follow each but most will support each

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 16/06/2016 13:26:07    1867667