legendzxix

Your comparison with the H cup is interesting.

That change had to be forced down the throats of the weaker countries and clubs with the stronger clubs threatening to walk away. You are not likely to see that in the GAA.



The silence from the GAA, provincial councils, GPA etc is deafening and dissapointing

The big established counties are happy enough to experiment in the league, win a handy provincial title and show up fresh for the serious stuff in August.

Weaker counties couldn't give a monkeys really. They are happy to be out of the championship in June and then play club football for the summer and then have their club champions turn up in October and get beaten by a club from a bigger county. They might win a provincial title once in a generation or two and they are happy out. Sure who would want to be going up to Dublin every year?

Its been going on for 100 years and no weaker county has ever brought a motion to congress with an alternative plan.

The demand is from intercounty managers and pundits.

At least the Hurling counties have changed it up to see if they can improve things (qualifier groups, Galway to Leinster, Christy Ring competition).

Intercounty football could be a 4 month extravaganza of competitive games for all counties with tangible rewards for players who make an effort. Instead we have a championship that limps to a start in May and might have a half interesting game every two weeks, a whole load of mismatches and defensive football (caused by the disparity between the teams abilities) that only gets interesting when the top teams meet from the quarter finals on.

Anyone who thinks the GAA football championship is fine is deluded.

tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 1488 - 11/05/2015 09:08:20    1722298

legendzxix
County: Kerry
Posts: 4239

1722230
The pro 12 was struggling. Low supporter turnout similar to the national league. Rugby focus was on the H cup, similar to the championship. Recent modifications to qualification for the champions cup has raised the competitiveness of the Pro 12 and made it a better competition. It's also has become more established now as well.

theres a higher attendance at the national league than the pro12.
it hasnt become anyway better all it is is an afterthought when your dumped out of the hk cup.
teams field second strings for most of the games

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 11/05/2015 09:31:23    1722302

11/05/2015 09:31:23
hill16no1man
theres a higher attendance at the national league than the pro12.
it hasnt become anyway better all it is is an afterthought when your dumped out of the hk cup.
teams field second strings for most of the games Easier to get crowds in a national compeitition than an international one. League has become better. All rugby supporters can acknowledge that. It isn't an afterthought until you're out of Europe.
teams aren't second string for most games

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 11/05/2015 09:44:22    1722310

There are too many issues behind the Tommy Murphy Cup for it to ever be a success. 1. winning it does not lead to improvement, as both my own county, and Wicklow won it in the past, and we are both division 4 teams, it had no real effect on improving football in either county. 2. Completely unfair on clubs that already have to do without county players for long stretches of the season, and shouldn't have to do without these players due to a 2nd rate competition. 3. At a time when the GAA are struggling with attendance figures, it makes little sense running a competition that would draw less crowds than at most league matches.

I think the solution to improving the Weaker teams should be in the league. Scrap the pre-season competitions and have 3 division leagues, with 11 teams in each. This guarantees 10 matches, and would see teams competing at a higher level before the championship begins.

PK57 (Louth) - Posts: 1664 - 11/05/2015 10:56:52    1722348

ormond
Easier to get crowds in a national compeitition than an international one. League has become better. All rugby supporters can acknowledge that. It isn't an afterthought until you're out of Europe.
teams aren't second string for most games

yeah but your international has only 4 teams
as oppossed to 32 teams in the national
meaning each team should have a bigger support base

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 11/05/2015 11:33:31    1722360

PK57

3 divisions of 11 teams will result in more experimentation than ever. Half the div 3 counties would have no chance of promotion ever and therefore nothing to play for all year long.

That would leave Wicklow, Leitrim, Waterford, London, Carlow and Antrim with no chance of anything. Better off with the hurling league format.

tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 1488 - 11/05/2015 11:42:44    1722369

no is my simple answer

ziggy32001 (Meath) - Posts: 8354 - 11/05/2015 11:54:15    1722377

tirawleybaron the point of the league is to prepare you for championship football. You can win every league game, but it isn't worth one championship win. Also, If the standard of football raises, then it can only be good for the counties involved. Look at Roscommon, at one stage they were a division 4 team, and are now a division 1 team, so things can be turned around with proper structures in place.

PK57 (Louth) - Posts: 1664 - 11/05/2015 13:12:04    1722415

11/05/2015 11:33:31
hill16no1man
yeah but your international has only 4 teams
as oppossed to 32 teams in the national
meaning each team should have a bigger support base But are you and others here always trying to say rugby isn't that big and GAA and the counties get way more support... Provinces have 14 home games minimum and its easier to attract fans for irregular games like in gaa...

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 11/05/2015 13:27:38    1722421

A and B championship, 4 groups of 4, relegation and promotion possibilities to give incentive.

Treat the B championship with respect. I remember Wicklow lifting the Tommy Murphy cup while the following teams were running out onto the pitch.

Gulf between the big and small is huge.

sponger (Wicklow) - Posts: 2953 - 11/05/2015 13:37:09    1722429

ormond
But are you and others here always trying to say rugby isn't that big and GAA and the counties get way more support... Provinces have 14 home games minimum and its easier to attract fans for irregular games like in gaa...

yeah for the level of media coverage and national publicity rugby gets its defo not warranted
but horse racing would be in my view the only sport internationally ahead of rugby in terms how successfull they are
its not easier to attract supporters when there is no promiting of the games in the competition
continually saying the championship is the focus before a league game is going to turn supporters off attending
where as rugby do the opposite they try and make out it matter more than they actually feel it does
which adds numbers to their gates for their second competition which is the right way to do it
but the fact of the matter is with one constantly putting its competition down the ranking it still gets better attendances
than one who constantly promotes its competition

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 11/05/2015 14:14:33    1722455

Should the gaa bring back the Tommy murphy cup???

Is there ANYTHING to be said for saying another mass???

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 11/05/2015 16:12:27    1722511

link

keeper7 (Longford) - Posts: 4088 - 11/05/2015 17:16:18    1722535

Far too many intercounty games already. No need for this competition which further kills the club game.

icehonesty (Wexford) - Posts: 2581 - 11/05/2015 18:29:25    1722556

11/05/2015 18:29:25
icehonesty
County: Wexford
Far too many intercounty games already. No need for this competition which further kills the club game.

Au contraire Rodders! It will not add games.

Week 1: Provincial Round 1.
Week 2: Provincial Round 2. Tommy Murphy Cup Quarter-finals.
Week 3: Provincial Semi-finals. AI Qualifier Round 1. TMC Semi-finals.
Week 4: AI Qualifier Round 2. TMC Final.
Week 5: Provincial Finals. AI Qualifier Round 3.
Week 6: AI Qualifier Round 4.
Week 7: AI Quarter-finals
Week 9: AI Semi-finals.
Week 10: AI Final.

The Tommy Murphy Cup would be played on weekends already being used, not any additional weekends.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8976 - 11/05/2015 19:29:14    1722573

PK57
County: Louth
There are too many issues behind the Tommy Murphy Cup for it to ever be a success. 1. winning it does not lead to improvement, as both my own county, and Wicklow won it in the past, and we are both division 4 teams, it had no real effect on improving football in either county. 2. Completely unfair on clubs that already have to do without county players for long stretches of the season, and shouldn't have to do without these players due to a 2nd rate competition. 3. At a time when the GAA are struggling with attendance figures, it makes little sense running a competition that would draw less crowds than at most league matches.

I think the solution to improving the Weaker teams should be in the league. Scrap the pre-season competitions and have 3 division leagues, with 11 teams in each. This guarantees 10 matches, and would see teams competing at a higher level before the championship begins.

Well, it was managers of Tommy Murphy Cup counties that commented the competition needed a route back to the championship to be meaningful. That's simply all I've suggested. 8 provincial round 1 teams drop into a second tier competition with the finalists surfacing in the qualifiers. The Tommy Murphy Cup would require 3 weekends that are already in use.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8976 - 11/05/2015 19:41:45    1722580

GAA PRESIDENT SPEAKS ABOUT SECOND TIER COMPETITION OFFERING ROUTE BACK INTO THE CHAMPIONSHIP

http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2015/0603/705652-aogan-o-fearghail-gaa-president/

"If you are a Division 4 team, for example in football, and you lose the first round in your province, perhaps the time is now to say, 'Well, why go into the qualifiers? Why not go into a separate competition and compete with other counties from Division 4'.
"But there should be a route back into Sam Maguire. That's what we are currently looking at."

Well the GAA president is suggesting something I've been saying. Bring in a second tier competition that offers a route back into the championship.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8976 - 03/06/2015 20:23:22    1732150