A lot expecting big things from Armagh this year. Built up for a big fall anyway, they just aren't good enough to trouble any of the big boys having lost some quality players from last season.

MourneArmy (Down) - Posts: 1787 - 16/04/2015 20:35:52    1714933

MuckrossHead
County: Donegal
Posts: 3394

1714181
Mayo
Donegal
Dublin
Cork
Kerry

Any of the above would have a good chance of beating any of the others on a given day.

After that Monaghan, Tyrone, Down, Roscommon & Armagh would be capable of causing an upset, outside of that nothing.

Dont forget Kildare hammered Down last year in qualifiers and really should of won their league game this year.
Monaghon only beat Kildare after extra time, last year also.
If your including Down ye might as well throw in Kildare, Or have you got the Ulster blinkers on :)

AthCliath (Dublin) - Posts: 4347 - 17/04/2015 13:01:30    1715066

Still think that Armagh are outside the top 5 counties in Ulster to be honest..

ziggy32001 (Meath) - Posts: 8354 - 17/04/2015 13:10:56    1715070

I agree ziggy32001. I think Tyrone, Donegal, Monaghan, Cavan and Derry would all beat Armagh at the min

DoireCityFC (Derry) - Posts: 1580 - 17/04/2015 14:16:15    1715090

Down could beat them too,not really sure why there is such a hype about Armagh..

ziggy32001 (Meath) - Posts: 8354 - 17/04/2015 15:45:45    1715113

I'd expect big things from Armagh as well. Very much dark horses coming from Division 3.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8769 - 17/04/2015 19:12:03    1715153

I agree ziggy32001. I think Tyrone, Donegal, Monaghan, Cavan and Derry would all beat Armagh at the min

Not sure were you get the confidence to make that statement. We beat Cavan & Tyrone last year, drew with Monaghan, and were one point off Donegal. I certainly would not be afraid of Derry. We will be a challenge for anyone. I'd have us 3rd in Ulster but the margins between the top 6/7 would be small.

JP91 (Armagh) - Posts: 316 - 17/04/2015 19:30:55    1715156

AthCliath
County: Dublin
Posts: 3652


Dont forget Kildare hammered Down last year in qualifiers and really should of won their league game this year.
Monaghon only beat Kildare after extra time, last year also.
If your including Down ye might as well throw in Kildare, Or have you got the Ulster blinkers on :)

Ulster blinkers, moi??? You must be confusing me with Ulsterman there Ath Cliath.

I'm not giving huge credence to last years form. Down are back in Div 1, Kildare are in Div 3 & seemingly going backwards, nothing more complicated than that.

MuckrossHead (Donegal) - Posts: 5028 - 17/04/2015 19:38:01    1715157

JP91 that was last year AND since then a number of players have left the Armagh panel. Put it this way if those players weren't playing last year Armagh wouldn't have reached the AI quarter final.

Mr_Pundit (UK) - Posts: 677 - 17/04/2015 21:05:04    1715182

The top 6 have never been as clear. They are the top 6 teams in Division 1 this year, have won all leagues, as well as all provincial and all-ireland championships since 2011. I would rate them as follows.

1. Dublin. 4 Provincials, 2 All Irelands and 2 Leagues since 2011. LEAGUE FINAL THIS YEAR.
2. Donegal. 3 Provincials, 1 All Ireland and 1 All Ireland Runner up since 2011. LEAGUE SEMI FINAL THIS YEAR.
3. Kerry. 3 Provincials, 1 All Ireland and 1 All Ireland Runner up since 2011. 6th In Division 1 this year.
4. Cork. 1 Provincial, 2 Leagues since 2011. LEAGUE FINAL THIS YEAR.
5. Mayo. 4 Provinals since 2011. 5th In Division 1 this year.
6. Monaghan. 1 Provincial since 2011. LEAGUE SEMI FINAL THIS YEAR.

Do the maths. All 16 provincial titles, 4 league and 4 all - Ireland titles since 2011, as well as all 4 league semi finalists this year. There is no one else. Monaghan broke into this group when they won Ulster in 2013 (IMO displacing Tyrone) and have in the main continued that upward curve ever since. There simply cannot be anyone else!

Check the quarter finalists from 2011 onwards and only (Kildare, Tyrone, Limerick 2011), (Down, Laois, Kildare 2012), (Cavan,Tyrone 2013) and (Armagh and Galway 2014) come from outside these 6. Fleeting one off appearances, apart from Kildare and tyrone who have been there in the top 8, but not really challenged the big guns and have lost all games they have played against the big established top 5..

If a team wants to be in this group come championships end, then they need to take out one of these top 6 teams, and especially one of the top 4 teams, which is my opinion are a step ahead of cork and monaghan having won two of the four leagues, all four all Ireland and 14 of the 16 provincials since 2011.

The next pretenders are Down, Derry, Tyrone, Armagh, Roscommon, Galway, Meath. Don't see anyone else outside these counties breaking into the top 6. As said, only Monaghan have done it since 2011, all others are simply pretenders until the well established top 6 are taken down.

galwaydublin (Galway) - Posts: 226 - 17/04/2015 21:06:16    1715183

Meath i believe the only team able to put it up to Dublin in Leinster, the rest not a hope, Roscommon might now be able to take Mayo. for Sam, Dublin, Kerry, Cork, Donegal, sorry no disrespect i dont rate Mayo, would love them to win Sam, God know s they have been so unlucky in final s, and yet it is 1951 since Mayo last won Sam. i cant see that changing anytime soon, hope i am wrong, Monaghan could be the surprise team come august, as they say in Ulster on any given day, anything can happen, good luck to all teams for the All Ireland.

mchugh11 (Donegal) - Posts: 242 - 17/04/2015 21:21:14    1715186

galwaydublin
County: Galway
Posts: 45

1715183 The top 6 have never been as clear. They are the top 6 teams in Division 1 this year, have won all leagues, as well as all provincial and all-ireland championships since 2011. I would rate them as follows.

I wouldn't count the league as an accurate measuring stick.

Apart from reaching the National League SF by default this year, Donegal have actually Ignored the league as a competition. Purely a structure for bleeding in players, and giving players returning from Injury game time. Kerry have been following a similar path lately too, and don't seem to lose much sleep over whether or not the compete for the league.

While the likes of Cork and Dublin who have larger panel's, normally do set out to win the League. And some other counties do see it as a major prize.

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3026 - 19/04/2015 15:28:49    1715441

The league is all about avoiding the drop and nothing else.

For this reason...

1 Kerry..Defending all ireland champions
2 Dublin..last year will buck them up no end tactically
3 Cork... They look like they have gotten the winning habit going again

4,5,6 Mayo, Donegal, Monaghan in no particular order

7,8,9,10,11 Tyrone, Roscommon, Meath, Galway, Armagh

The field.

Donegalman (None) - Posts: 3846 - 19/04/2015 17:01:06    1715461

Donegalman
County: All
Posts: 1936

1715461 The league is all about avoiding the drop and nothing else.

For this reason...

1 Kerry..Defending all ireland champions
2 Dublin..last year will buck them up no end tactically
3 Cork... They look like they have gotten the winning habit going again

4,5,6 Mayo, Donegal, Monaghan in no particular order

7,8,9,10,11 Tyrone, Roscommon, Meath, Galway, Armagh

The field.

I surprised Donegalman that you see Roscommon, Meath, Galway and Armagh in the top 11, but not Derry or Down?

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3026 - 20/04/2015 19:06:12    1715836

Without getting into where Armagh are in the list of Ulster players I just wanted to find out who all these quality players they have lost are. From the squad last year I know they have lost McAvoy in goals. His position was seriously under threat though. Kyle Carragher left but would have been struggling to get a place. The obvious loss is Aaron Kernan and the majority of Armagh supporters would want him to have continued. The problem though was that he was not first choice last season and only got on the team when McKeever got injured. A lot of different players have got game time in the league and there have been a lot of injuries. Hopefully all will be back for June.

Armaghball (Armagh) - Posts: 96 - 20/04/2015 21:41:59    1715865

It's Kerry's year again I am afraid. They're at full strength now and nobody is near them

JackoDub (Dublin) - Posts: 458 - 21/04/2015 08:38:03    1715879

love how down are the rank outsiders, we'll see come the summer lads

offtheground1 (Down) - Posts: 128 - 21/04/2015 09:00:09    1715886

I think Donegalman has it spot on there, I wouldn't have Derry in top 11 and wouldn't have down in the top 20

redhanddefender (Tyrone) - Posts: 913 - 21/04/2015 09:34:24    1715894

Pointless discussion as league is not really a barometer of very much - as such no-one can say who the top teams are at this stage - even championship never gets the full truth out due to the luck of the draw but then I suppose that is maybe what debate is about - opinions rather than any sort of fact.

Naysayer (Antrim) - Posts: 2071 - 21/04/2015 09:42:54    1715896

galwaydublin
County: Galway
Posts: 45

I think you've summed it up pretty well there. That should have been enough to end this thread conclusively.

rcarragh (Dublin) - Posts: 305 - 21/04/2015 10:03:12    1715900