Ho can you run off a competition where every division has a different set of rules? Bottom 2 in 1a play off to see who goes down. Bottom one in 1b plays a team from the division below them to see if they go down. Of all the divisions 1b must be the hardest to come out of be that up or down. Its like Groundhog Day in there every year. You can go through the thing unbeaten for 10 years in a row and not go up. You can go through the thing losing every match for 10 years and not go down.

it's a farce of a division. You win a match and you are nearly in a 1/4 final. And yet you know you can lose every game and still probably be there again the following year.

mike03 (Limerick) - Posts: 2000 - 24/03/2015 11:00:55    1705937

Mike03,

"it's a farce of a division. You win a match and you are nearly in a 1/4 final."

Kilkenny won 2 matches & ended up in the relegation playoff.

keeper7 (Longford) - Posts: 4088 - 24/03/2015 12:16:33    1705972

KingdomBoy1
County: Kerry
Posts: 2849

1705677 Is it true that Antrim haven't won a point in div 1a in two seasons and they still get to stay in that division ? Bit of a joke if that's true.

While Itend to agree with this in principle it is difficult to make a case for the teams in Division 2A when they cannot overcome the loser of the Division 1B play-off.

Naysayer (Antrim) - Posts: 2071 - 24/03/2015 12:16:58    1705973

That's 1a keeper where everyone beats each other. I said 1b.

mike03 (Limerick) - Posts: 2000 - 24/03/2015 12:47:47    1705999

Ok Mike. Offaly finished 4th in 1B having won 3 games out of 5. What are you on about then?

keeper7 (Longford) - Posts: 4088 - 24/03/2015 14:29:40    1706051

3 points gets you a 1/4 final. Is that a competitive division? And even if you end up with zero points you don't get relegated. It's a farce of a division.

mike03 (Limerick) - Posts: 2000 - 24/03/2015 15:20:16    1706074

In fact in the majority of years in 1b 2 points with a half decent scoring difference will get you a 1/4 final. Where is the sense in that?

mike03 (Limerick) - Posts: 2000 - 24/03/2015 15:22:48    1706076

Agree with naysayer, if the team that wins 2A get hammered by the worst of 1b then how can they be justified to move up, this year Antrim were a few points of wexford, if westmeath or whoever win 2A beat the worst of 1B then by all means they should have a crack at 1B but if they cant then whats the sense of them going up to get tanked in each game, I know some will say theres nothing to suggest that they would but if they cannot beat the worst of 1B then it wouldnt bode well. I think thats why yhis situation exists

Colinog (UK) - Posts: 39 - 24/03/2015 15:42:14    1706093

I agree completely the relegation play off play off from 1B is a nonsense.

I dont understand the need for any playoffs whatsoever tbh other than ensuring the bigger counties get a second chance if they need it.

Clare deserve to be relegated to 1B and Antrim deserve to be relegated to 2A, in fact Antrim deserve the kick in the a**e they might get for using the system last year and possibly this year again to stay up. Up in Antrim we whinge every year about not getting a fair crack of the whip but at the end of the day we're as guilty of preserving the status quo of the closed shop as those counties above us.

So no harm to Westmeath or Laois and indeed my own county but i would really like to see Kerry get promoted to freshen things up a bit.

bumpernut (Antrim) - Posts: 1852 - 24/03/2015 15:45:52    1706097

Mike03,

Galway had 4 points in 1A to finish fourth & qualify quarterfinal spot. If they had only 3 points Kilkenny would've qualified instead! Offaly had 6 points in 1B to qualify, again in fourth place. This is only the second year that we've had these quarter-finals so you're talking total nonsense!

It's actually a mathematical impossibility to qualify with only 3 points, as you claim. If I were you, I'd stop digging now...

keeper7 (Longford) - Posts: 4088 - 24/03/2015 16:20:14    1706109

Top 3 teams all beat bottom 3. Leaves the bottom 3 on zero points. The 3 bottom teams all beat each other, 2 points each. The one with the highest points difference finishes 4th after winning one match. It's not hard to understand.

mike03 (Limerick) - Posts: 2000 - 24/03/2015 16:33:52    1706117

Or every team beats the bottom team. And the 4th and 5th team drew with each other and lost the other 3. 3points. The one with the best scoring difference goes through to a 1/4 final. Farce.

mike03 (Limerick) - Posts: 2000 - 24/03/2015 16:37:32    1706119

In reality, none of the teams in 1b should be in the quarter final, but if that was the case the 1b teams would still be complaining. Mike, from Limericks point of view, if they are good enough they will go up. They haven't been good enough yet, end of story.

The format in 1b allows those teams a competitive match before the championship, it's a good idea and allows the 1b teams a chance to see where they are at. If a 1b teams goes on to win it then fair play to them.I honestly don't think any 1b team will make the league semi's.

Faithfull (Offaly) - Posts: 573 - 24/03/2015 21:59:47    1706266

So what will most likely happen here is if such a change to 8 were to be made, it'd be fine once it is Wexford and Offaly in 1B, but after year 1 somebody would be relegated and just like now the clamour will start again.

They need to make a very small few changes, namely having 2nd team in 1B playing 2nd bottom team in 1A for 1A hurling the following year.

And also - it is always said that the league doesnt matter by certain counties, why are these people now shouting for change?

Pinkie (Wexford) - Posts: 4100 - 25/03/2015 09:21:11    1706279

While I agree with bumper that we need a good kick up the ass I also believe that if the 2A champions were worthy to get in to Div 1B then they should be able to overcome the team which loses the relegation playoff (and potentially the team which hasn't won one game going in to the 1B/2A playoff). This is a good yard stick as to where exactly the 2A team is at.

If you take ourselves who are in the relegation playoff and look at our results in the league:
Wexford - lost by 1 point away (Wexfords other winning margins were by 9pts,12pts)
Limerick - lost by 8 at home (Limerick other winning margins were 1pt, 6pt)
Laois - lost by 4 at home (Laois didn't win any other game)
Waterford - can't find any result for this game..... (won their other games by 18pts, 7pts, 6pts)
Offaly - lost by 4 at home (won their other games by 4pts, 3pts)

So with the exception of Waterford and perhaps Limerick, our matches weren't lost by big margins.

If you then look at the teams in 1B who are in the final - with the exception of their games against London and Wicklow, the rest of their games were tight. If you then look at our record against the teams which make up Div 2A over the years for the most part there have been some hammerings dished out by ourselves so is there much benefit to the 2A team coming straight up without having to play the team which loses 1B and the likes of ourselves going down? By having a play off between the winners/losers then if the team is of an equal or higher standard then they will righfully go up and replace the 1B team and there can be no arguement that they shouldn't be there as they will be on merit. It may be seen as a tough stance but if they are good enough then they will prevail.

Offside_Rule (Antrim) - Posts: 4058 - 25/03/2015 09:37:20    1706289

Offside, while i prob agree that if we were to play Kerry or Westmeath 10 times Antrim,and Laois for that matter, would prob win 7 times (both of these sides have maybe beaten Antrim in the last 5/6 years, i know Westmeath certainly have a few times. I also remember Kerry beating us in kerry something like 15-14 if my memory is correct). However, we cannot excuse the fact that the winners of 2A should not be directly promoted because they may not be good enough. Surely the only way the 2A counties can really test themselves at the next level is by giving them a chance to play there.
If the shoe was on the other foot and the same rules applied for entry to 1A we'd be crying from the rooftops about it and rightly so.
I also agree that bar the waterford 'match' we've been competitive in every game but it doesnt excuse the fact that we havent won a 'proper' league game in 2 years and deserve relegation as much as the winner of 2A deserves promotion.

It is protectionism and i disagree with it completely

bumpernut (Antrim) - Posts: 1852 - 25/03/2015 10:46:08    1706320

Fathfull I don't mind either what way division we are in. I have said that plenty of times. My point is that 1B of all the divisions is a joke. One win can get you a 1/4 final. Lose every match and not be relegated. I mean where is the sense in that?

mike03 (Limerick) - Posts: 2000 - 25/03/2015 11:09:10    1706344

Surely the only way the 2A counties can really test themselves at the next level is by giving them a chance to play there.

bumper - I can't really argue with this logic as one way to improve is by playing teams of a higher standard. But given the difference in standards between 1A and 1B and 1B and 2A then I can also understand why they have the set up the way they have and use a promotion/relegation game to finalise the remaining places in the respective leagues. As I said, if the 2A team are strong enough they will overcome the 1B team and rightly replace them in that Division.

Its maybe hard to look at this from a total impartial viewpoint in my case given that we are one of the teams who have found ourselves in this position the last two years and of course I have the interests of Antrim Hurling at heart but I think my stance would be the same if we weren't. I would also be accepting of the scenario you mention that if we were in a playoff to get in to Div 1A and didn't win that we wouldn't be at the level to compete with those in the top division - in this scenario I would be happier staying within 1B and trying to improve to the level where we can compete on a weekly basis. Similarly, if we went down to Div 2A at the end of the games to come and won the Division next year and then lost out to whoever is in our position next year then again I would accept that we don't deserve to be playing against the 1B teams.

Offside_Rule (Antrim) - Posts: 4058 - 25/03/2015 11:35:49    1706358

Keeper7, to be pedantic about it, not only is it mathematically possible to come 4th on 3 points, but it's also possible to come 4th on 2 points!

1914 (Clare) - Posts: 92 - 25/03/2015 12:12:08    1706380

Pinkie you love a argument so much you create one.

The CLARE posters AGREE with you!!!!! Read before posting lad. Clare deserve to be relegated this year to 1b in the majority of our opinions. No problem accepting that.

I'm not saying the league needs to be changed right now. But I think in the near future they should sit down and take a good look at it. It's all about preparation for the championship, being in 1b was no harm to Cork last year and Limerick last few years. Yourselves didn't do to bad at all last year.

This time last year I was saying "leave it alone" and I'm saying the same thing now. "Leave it alone" but some time in the future they should look at it.

I know this will annoy a lot of posters but I would love to see a league competition with Cork, Tipp, Clare, Kilkenny, Waterford, Wexford, Offaly, Limerick, Dublin and Galway in it. Maybe split into two groups randomly each year. And that's just my opinion, I know that would mean Laois and Kerry et all missing out, but just thinking it would be serious competitive for all.

Just an opinion

BannerBoy2013 (Clare) - Posts: 325 - 25/03/2015 13:03:16    1706401