What is the story with that awful design for Pairc Ui Caoimh?

From what I can see it involves putting a tin roof on the existing stands and then building one monstrous stand that looks completely out of place? Am I missing something? I know there are to be improved facilities (warm tae and fresh breah sangiches?) a centre of excellence and other pitches on site, but 1 giant stand and a bit of roofing everywhere else seems a bit of a wasted opportunity.

Is it completely against the GAA's ethos to build a decent stadium anywhere in the entire country? Even Croker is unfinished - say what you will about Hill 16's history or problems with the DART line - but Croke Park looks unfinished with 3 wonderful sides ending abruptly with "the crap end". Actually, this is not unique to GAA as Lansdowne Road also has 3 good sides and at one end there are about 6 rows of seats, like a stand that never grew up.

But getting back to my initial rant. From what I have seen there were several propositions that aimed at building a modern stadium along the lines of Thomond Park or the mid range stadia in England. Do the people making these decisions not understand that we live in a country where it rains all year round and we're not averse to hailstones in June either? I wouldn't want to be sitting at the front of the exposed top tier of this new Pairc ui Caoimh in a cold February wind or a lashing summer shower. Its an ugly proposal.

diablodeKingdom (Kerry) - Posts: 210 - 01/12/2014 14:24:55    1675763

The Dart DOES NOT run behind Hill16.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13798 - 01/12/2014 17:08:54    1675802

diablodeKingdom would agree it seems to be a poor design but was is more of a issue is the lack of a need for a 45k stadium in Cork. A 25k stadium in a better location in Cork would have made a lot more sense. A white elephant it seems.

ros1 (Roscommon) - Posts: 1211 - 01/12/2014 21:09:12    1675867

diablodeKingdom you read my mind when it comes to stadium design in this country. It is the worst in the world.
I didn't know their were 'Thomand' style proposals but surely a symmetrical design like that stadium would of made more sense.
Same can be said for Clones, McHale, Semple, Limerick etc. Bizarre designs that follow no pattern.

RoyalBadger (Meath) - Posts: 571 - 02/12/2014 09:22:49    1675892

I agree entirely. What we need to do is take a look at the stadiums in New Zealand. Same sort of climate(lots of rain). Stadia designed with spectators in mind. The Forsyth-Barr in Dunedin is exactly what we need here. A medium sized stadium with a roof that was designed on a budget and ticks all the boxes. The new Cork design is embarrassing in its lack of creativity. A very unambitious project for the money involved.

jpcampion (Laois) - Posts: 194 - 02/12/2014 09:53:20    1675900

I agree with OP Croke Park looks unfinished and The Avia is a beautiful staduim except for that little bit behind the goal what were they thinking? Hopefully Cork do a good job

clondalkindub (Dublin) - Posts: 9926 - 02/12/2014 10:17:06    1675906

http://bit.ly/1rSSAdN

clondalkindub (Dublin) - Posts: 9926 - 02/12/2014 10:49:50    1675912

The problem with GAA stadia here is that in general they aren't developed all in one go, a new stand here & a new terrace there, individual parts improved over time and not in one go. Newry & Armagh are recent exceptions but on the whole different designs in different parts of grounds lead to an uneven appearance and the lack of covered accommodation is a real problem, Nowlan Park being a notable exception with cover available on all 4 sides. In fairness to the Pairc theres a lot more going to go on than what's seen, the uncovered stand isn't just being roofed its entire innards are being ripped out and rebuilt, same with the terracing so the whole place will look and feel a hell of a lot better and the new main stand looks impressive with all year round facilities. I think the Pairc will turn out to be a fine stadium and will look impressive upon completion, if the new roof that's going onto the existing uncovered stand was extended around the terraces it would create a uniform appearance and more spectator comfort, something for the future perhaps

Richieq (Meath) - Posts: 3748 - 02/12/2014 11:07:04    1675916

It would be interesting to see who exactly gets paid this €70m and what sort of GAA connections they have and how close they are to various interested parties, especially considering there is €30m of taxpayers money being spent on this.

Everytime I look at the plans and see the price-tag of €70m I really can't help but think that someone has to be making out like a bandit.

besidetheditch (Dublin) - Posts: 81 - 02/12/2014 11:20:26    1675918

I am totally against this spectacular waste of money. This stadium is rarely filled. It is whenever there is a massive game involving cork in the munster hurling championship. The football never gets more than 25000 and that is every other year when Cork and Kerry play.

So to the cost of 70 million, there is going to be a refurbishment done to an existing stadium, so there will be 20000 odd thousand beautiful looking empty seats. and 30000 beautiful empty looking seats with a roof over it for the other games.

The figure was initially 60 million. It is now 70 million. It will reach 90 million before long, and the tax payer will foot the bill as per usual with someone somewhere laughing all the way to the bank.

Donegalman (None) - Posts: 3846 - 02/12/2014 14:24:59    1675979

02/12/2014 14:24:59
Donegalman
County: All
Posts: 1762

1675979
I am totally against this spectacular waste of money. This stadium is rarely filled. It is whenever there is a massive game involving cork in the munster hurling championship. The football never gets more than 25000 and that is every other year when Cork and Kerry play.

So to the cost of 70 million, there is going to be a refurbishment done to an existing stadium, so there will be 20000 odd thousand beautiful looking empty seats. and 30000 beautiful empty looking seats with a roof over it for the other games.

The figure was initially 60 million. It is now 70 million. It will reach 90 million before long, and the tax payer will foot the bill as per usual with someone somewhere laughing all the way to the bank.

It is only fair to note that Pairc Ui Chaoimh has been given a commitment of extra games per year once redeveloped i.e your going to see All Ireland Q/Finals played there in both football and hurling, more neutral games, so it's gates are going to be open a lot more than they were. In fairness Cork is the second city and we should have a modern fit for purpose GAA stadium there and the existing Pairc Ui Chaoimh does not provide that, I'd rather see proper money spent on a proper job than papering over the cracks, I've been in the place and believe me it's totally unfit for purpose.

Richieq (Meath) - Posts: 3748 - 02/12/2014 16:10:14    1676022

The tax payer and the GAA are going to cough up for the greatest white elephant of them all.

If they did up Park UI Rinn to 25,000 all seater. It would be more than enough for Cork.

If you are going to build a big **** off stadium in Cork then at least make it open to Rugby and Soccer. If not, it might be filled once a year.

That tax payer will be throwing €30 million at this stupid idea. What quarter finals will get played there? Its inaccessible for 60% of the country. Even Cork people won't watch Cork play football in it.

tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 1390 - 02/12/2014 16:52:41    1676039

Cork brought about 50k up to dublin this year for the semi and the munster final couldn't fit nearly enough to meet demand. It's stupid saying they should build a 25k stadium when they already had a 35k stadium. And people in cork pay a lot of tax. no problem with them getting 30M.

Jack_Goff (Meath) - Posts: 2920 - 02/12/2014 17:29:29    1676053

How many football quarter finals are going to be played in Cork when you consider other then Kerry it is very unlikely that any other neighbouring counties will be in a quarter final, Thurles, Portlaoise, Tullamore and Limerick are better located for the hurling quarter finals and Cork is not neutral venue for to many counties. There was less then 25k at the Munster football final this year and if it was against any other county it would be less. The only time a bigger stadium then 25k would be needed in Cork is the Munster hurling final which is only in Cork when Cork happen to both get to a final and happen to have home advantage against that team which will be rear enough. Plus there are 3 other grounds in Munster able to hold a Munster hurling final already and even some Cork hurling people will tell you that the would sooner a Munster final in Thurles. Which will mean this big of a ground might only be needed once every 4 or 5 years Along with the 30m from the state publicly owned land will also be handed over to this project as well.

ros1 (Roscommon) - Posts: 1211 - 02/12/2014 21:33:02    1676161

Jack_Goff
County: Meath
Posts: 1329

1676053 Cork brought about 50k up to dublin this year for the semi and the munster final couldn't fit nearly enough to meet demand. It's stupid saying they should build a 25k stadium when they already had a 35k stadium. And people in cork pay a lot of tax. no problem with them getting 30M.

So Cork deserves a new 45,000 stadium because they managed to gather a crowd for 2 matches in 2014. That's a good investment.

It's like building a 4,500 sq ft house for a four people family because they want to have a new years party and a summer barbeque every year.

The fact is Pairc UI Caoimh is to far out of the way for any practical use. Fine if you are from Waterford, Cork or Kerry or along the Dublin - Cork Road but of no practical use to the rest of the country and far to big for Corks needs.

All the GAA need is a 80,000 seater stadium, a quality 40,000 seater stadium in Munster and quality 35,000 stadiums in Ulster and Connaught.

Every county should have stadiums completely covered in ranging from 6,000 (Leitrim, Longford etc) to 15,000 (Kerry, Mayo, Donegal, Cork etc)

Play all provincial finals and any other big games in the "provincial venue" and have quality suitably sizes grounds for early championship rounds, league matches and qualifiers.

Spend the government "grants" doing up the transport network at the big grounds and you have a sensible practical use of both GAA and Government funds.

We love to throw good money after bad in this country.

tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 1390 - 03/12/2014 08:19:13    1676188

Only in Ireland where people begrudge a nice stadium being built, PUC has served its purpose and im looking forward to see the new development.

kerryrowz (Kerry) - Posts: 833 - 03/12/2014 10:14:14    1676210

An awful lot of people in Cork GAA are against the amount of money that is being spent on this as we can see more ways to invest the money. There is also deep suspicion on why it is being done.

However, some changes need to be made to the stadium. It was a crumbling mess. The stadium (before health and safety regulations went into overdrive) used to have a capacity of 42,000. When finished it will have a 45,000 capacity. Not a major difference.

People are questioning the tax spend - people are entitled to question that to be fair. There is a long history in this country of projects going way over budget so it is understandable and right that people are objectionableto this large sum of money being spent. On the plus side though, jobs will be created in the construction for a lot of people. The area around PUC is also a mess (the showgrounds and the motor racing track are ugly abnd were let to ruin by their owners). This will be redeveloped and will be more aesthetically pleasing for those around
that live there, all visitors and for all citizens in Cork that wish to use the amenities. I can understand objections but there are some positives too.

bennybunny (Cork) - Posts: 3917 - 03/12/2014 11:36:48    1676235

Vesting of GAA Club Grounds in the GAA. What does this entitle a club to in terms of grants and insurance ?
What happens if only part of the grounds/property is vested and due to a legal error another part is not vested and some-one gets injured or the property damaged, on this part, are they covered by the GAA group policy ?
Any advice or views would be appreciated.

IssacBall (Derry) - Posts: 51 - 03/12/2014 12:01:24    1676242

Perhaps a wise man would look at the usage for Celtic Park in Derry - a classic white elephant whereby the Derry County Board have built Owenbeg and are promoting it as the premier county ground. So much for promoting development in the urban areas !
Their are discussions going on with Derry City Council to get more pitches for sport they should do a joint scheme for GAA/Soccer at Celtic Park in Derry makes sense financially and means the us rate-payers get to see some common sense. Cork should do likewise ?

IssacBall (Derry) - Posts: 51 - 03/12/2014 12:07:20    1676248

baron, are you against the government giving the aviva hundred of millions when it's filled less than 10 times a year?

Between concerts, AI QF's and Cork matches this might be filled 3 times a year. The ratio of full houses to money spent compared to the aviva actually will favor it.

Jack_Goff (Meath) - Posts: 2920 - 10/12/2014 21:13:23    1677925