Offside_Rule
County: Antrim
Posts: 1843

1679484
Casement simply isn't a popular project across Ulster, with this forum showing little or no support outside of the understandable parochial support of Antrim posters.

If people are that naive that they think its just a matter of building a stadium in a green field and problems are sorted then I don't know - the additional costs required for upgrading infrastructure alone would make it not viable. And if you don't spend money on roads etc then you are going to end up with another Clones.

There are many benefits to building a green field site, but there are other options too that should be explored

Why not expand the existing 26,000 capacity Healy park in Omagh? I would Imagine £30 million would give it a substancial facelift and decent capacity lift. Give Casement Park the other £40 million, and that would still transform Casement and leave an Impressive ground in Belfast. This is my preference, Give Ulster 2 decent Stadiums which will rival McHale Park or Fitzgerald Stadium in Kilarney in terms of capacity and have much better facilities.

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 19/12/2014 17:58:00    1679537

We could debate all day Gary as to the benefits or downfalls of either green field sites or the upgrading of other Counties stadiums but again, this is all hypothetical as the stadium will be going ahead at Casement. From my understanding there were no issues with the Stadium itself and these went past the Judge but it was when they came to the Traffic Management in particular that Justice Horner deemed the process behind the information had been presented to be flawed and asked for the plans to be taken away and put through as an application again. I believe this is more to do with the Roads Service side (or whatever Dept looks after that within Stormont).

I may be wrong but I think come May or June next year you will see the plans being submitted again and I don't think we are going to see a stadium that is reduced or reduced much from the plans as submitted i.e. a 38,000 stadium - well certainly not down to the 20,000 figure that MORA have been pushing. I also think their celebrations may be a tad premature but sure we will sit back now and watch what way it unfolds in the next 6 months or so. Get the popcorn out!

Offside_Rule (Antrim) - Posts: 4058 - 22/12/2014 08:55:51    1679729

GaryMc82 have you ever tried to drive through Omagh during the day and in aprticular at rush hours?

Naysayer (Antrim) - Posts: 2071 - 22/12/2014 10:34:57    1679742

I have Naysayer as any time we are heading down to Mayo to the inlaws we go through Omagh and it can be a slow old slog on a normal day. This is part of the reason why other places being suggested are not realistic - if you consider that the issues the Traffic Management seems to be causing around Casement which is beside a main arterial route then how do people think a stadium which is off a B road is going to get round this?

Offside_Rule (Antrim) - Posts: 4058 - 22/12/2014 12:05:04    1679756

Glad that we have it in Clones for another while yet :)

MonaghanGlory (Monaghan) - Posts: 738 - 22/12/2014 21:40:06    1679842

And sure why wouldn't you be.

Offside_Rule (Antrim) - Posts: 4058 - 23/12/2014 09:03:47    1679854

Absolutely MonaghanGlory and may as well enjoy it while it is there and same goes for everyone attending to enjoy the unique setting that is Clones before it becomes a thing of the past.

Naysayer (Antrim) - Posts: 2071 - 23/12/2014 11:29:17    1679875

I'm pleased to say the Ulster Final will be staying in it's spiritual home of Clones for good if the Ulster Council cannot decide on an alternative venue somewhere in Tyrone. The Casement vanity project is dead in the water, that is for sure. Anything said by the Ulster Council is just a saving face exercise. The areas where the application failed were the first three hurdles on the track. The residents have not only won the battle but the war too. Another thing is, that part of Belfast just can't cope with 10,000 cars on match day, and the proposed park and ride facility to be laid on from the Maze is a disaster waiting to happen. I also have to laugh at the attempts to knock Clones by saying it doesn't have a motor way to it. I live in Dublin and I'm sure Belfast is the same in terms of gridlock in around the city and the M50, so can you imagine attempting to come come off a motorway and nowhere to go or park. The PSNI are all to familiar with this, as any time there is a game in Belfast with more that 12,000, the game is always delayed by half an hour, what would it be like with 40,000. This was a vanity project from the start and it's good to see it being shot down by the judge on the grounds of common sense. Casement should get what they need, a stadium for 25,000 people, something that the residents have been telling the all along.

drumlinbelt (Monaghan) - Posts: 179 - 23/12/2014 12:25:54    1679882

Casement plans will be resubmitted and the stadium will go ahead. Just red tape/procedures holding things up at the moment.

Offside_Rule (Antrim) - Posts: 4058 - 23/12/2014 13:00:37    1679888

I also have to laugh at the attempts to knock Clones by saying it doesn't have a motor way to it

Forget not having a motorway - the problem is it doesn't have decent roads to it. The potential problems you mention with the traffic in Belfast getting away is only a fraction of the actual problem Clones faces currently, let alone if it was developed further.

Offside_Rule (Antrim) - Posts: 4058 - 23/12/2014 13:07:52    1679890

drumlinbelt you should make sure you are better informed before posting that drivel. Casement is going ahead with a bit of fine tuning but more or less along the lines that we saw before only with more consideration given to traffic. Might be the later half of next year before you see everything in black and white but you can rest assured that this is very real.

Naysayer (Antrim) - Posts: 2071 - 23/12/2014 14:32:34    1679907

As a local of the town why not be happy, it's great seeing the town being so full during the championship

MonaghanGlory (Monaghan) - Posts: 738 - 27/12/2014 16:13:07    1679957

In fairness, parking around Casement is the worst I have ever seen and I have been going to matches all over Ireland for over 40 years. Not sure how that will be sorted. A complete free-for-all. Clones is a breeze by comparison. Tony's Gym park, handy as anything. On the other hand, I could understand residents objecting to a stadium if there never had been one there; but they already have a big stadium and it's an eyesore; with all that tin and concrete it looks more like a decommissioned barracks than a modern stadium. Lots of clubs have better facilities than Casement. Hard to understand why you'd not want it tidied up - if the traffic could be sorted.

essmac (Tyrone) - Posts: 1141 - 28/12/2014 21:58:33    1680005

After reading the judgement and papers re Casement, its obvious not only is this going to get planning permission but the judge has more or less told them what needs to be put into the new application to get it passed for a 38000 capacity regional stadium.

The residents or should I say the last remnants of militant residents, can hold it up but they are going to leave themselves with a huge legal bill and still not win.
This will be built and any talk about Clones or sites in the backwaters of Tyrone are just plain daft and irrelevant as is talk about a stadium for Antrim of 25000 - not going to happen.

Tim_Burr (Down) - Posts: 460 - 29/12/2014 15:34:20    1680038

That's what I have been trying to say Tim_Burr but nobody wants to listen but instead continue to spout some amount of drivel about where else it could be located or about the victory for MORA in getting a small stadium. The information is all out there if people would just take a bit of time and digest it.

Offside_Rule (Antrim) - Posts: 4058 - 29/12/2014 18:16:56    1680054

Its hard to make sense of it all Offside; its obvious to a blind man whats going to happen.

The MORA residents turned down what looked like a sensible offer from the builder who was obviously a conduit for the GAA, Belfast City Council and various Gov departments - hard to understand the legal advice they are getting but it doesnt seem like a smart move to me especially when the Judge asked both parties to meet and discuss options.

I have a friend who comes from the West of the city, she was involved with the builder for the last two years (works with Belfast City Council)and said alot of time and energy has been invested in programmes to get locals working on this stadium and then jobs for locals when its completed. All public funded works have social clauses built in to them and same with Casement Park. If anyone seriously thinks a handful of residents are going to hold back Sinn Fein, Gov Depts, BCC, GAA and £80 million funding for West Belfast they are deluded.

Casement Park II is alive and kicking

Tim_Burr (Down) - Posts: 460 - 30/12/2014 09:22:14    1680072

Offside_Rule
County: Antrim
Posts: 1850

1679756
I have Naysayer as any time we are heading down to Mayo to the inlaws we go through Omagh and it can be a slow old slog on a normal day. This is part of the reason why other places being suggested are not realistic - if you consider that the issues the Traffic Management seems to be causing around Casement which is beside a main arterial route then how do people think a stadium which is off a B road is going to get round this?

Look at the posts on here guys, and the pro-casement argument is basically yourself and Naysayer from Antrim ( The Parochial yet understandable bias ). The Down poster has only appeared, so the Jury is still out on whether they are new to the topic or an alternative profile belonging to one of you.

I travel through Omagh at least twice every 2 weeks en-route to Dublin, It currently has a Throughpass instead of a bypass. However the new A5 will bypass the Town, and provide a dual carriageway from Monaghan to Derry City ( Derry to Dublin A5/N2 ).
This A5 will also link to Dungannon and the motorway to Belfast.

If such a Stadium was placed along this new A5 or if Healy Park was developed, We would have a excellent location which would allow quick access to the vast majority of Ulster Gaels from the 9 counties. Every county would be within 1 hours drive of the ground, although naturally there would be a small minority outside of this drive time. But certainly a lot less than if the Stadium is located in Belfast in the extreme east of the Province.

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 30/12/2014 20:34:51    1680128

The argument for having an Ulster GAA stadium outside of Belfast is much stronger than having the Stadium in Belfast.

I have yet to see a strong argument to prove Casement is by far the best location for a Stadium to host people from all corners of Ulster. I asked before, and have yet to actually receive any decent arguments.

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 30/12/2014 20:45:54    1680133

Gentlemen the British exchequer has agreed to put £61 Million sterling into the Casement Park project full stop. It has been ring fenced and agreed for Belfast and nowhere else. It does not matter is that is right or wrong as regards location the money is for Belfast and Belfast only.
There is a little hiccup at present as regards the planning issue but the project will go along at a later date than had been planned.

Isolatedantrim (Antrim) - Posts: 31 - 30/12/2014 21:49:11    1680139

Tut tut Gary Mc82 - my posts are as equally valid on this topic as much as yours - lets just leave it at that.
Im neither for or against Casement II, I just commenting on the situation as it stand presently.

All this nonsense re Clones, A5 link road,gaels from far flungs parts of ulster etc.. are all irrelevant as this stadium is for Belfast and Belfast only and anyone who thinks differently is just deluded.

Ask yourselves how many local politicians,MLAs, MPs, Euro MPs and county boards in the West of the Bann have come out supporting a move ?

Tim_Burr (Down) - Posts: 460 - 02/01/2015 12:16:59    1680159