Listen we could go into 'facts' all, we could go into population distribution of Ulster Gaels in the North Armagh, North Down Antrim area, but I won't. My point always was not to discount Clones and being some distant town on the extreme southern border of Ulster completely out of the way. Even your own stats prove that not to be the case.

Couple this fact with general dreariness and air of bellicosity in the Andersonstown area, I think St Tiernachs Park in Clones should continue to hold Ulster Finals, as it has done successfully for decades.

Something tells me that local residents in the Clones area would welcome an upgrade to the stadium there.

supermon (Monaghan) - Posts: 1073 - 17/12/2014 11:01:58    1679042

Supermon, people always think that the reason Ulster moved the finals to Croke Park was purely down to the rivalry between Armagh and Tyrone and to attract bigger crowds. It was also down to the fact the chamber of commerce wanted more money from the ulster Council for staging the event. They weren't just happy with getting extra revenue on match day they also wanted a lump sum as well. So maybe Clones people aren't too dissimilar to the people in Andy town after all.

shaggylegend (Monaghan) - Posts: 1940 - 17/12/2014 11:13:26    1679046

Well I think locals of Clones should be commended for their hospitality year after year.

supermon (Monaghan) - Posts: 1073 - 17/12/2014 11:22:21    1679050

"Couple this fact with general dreariness and air of bellicosity in the Andersonstown area"

yet another put down on west belfast people supermon , tarring everyone with the same brush
can you explain how you come to this conclusion .. what are you basing it on ?
remember the majority of people and residences are not against a new stadium at casement park.
thought this topic was about casement park not peoples wrong attitude to west belfast

redmick (Antrim) - Posts: 92 - 17/12/2014 11:23:46    1679051

Clones could be the centre of the Universe with great access and no hassle parking, sure the GAA may even strip the 15 million pounds of the Casement project and do their usual and build a crap stand such as McHale(NB Leicester Tigers built a stand at the same time for the same money for the same capcaity and it is ten times better!!!!) That still leaves us with the small matter of 62 million pounds from her Majesty. Do we just hand that back or back in the real world Casement gets pushed through or the GAA get off their arses and find a new site near Belfast!

boondock (Antrim) - Posts: 9 - 17/12/2014 11:25:02    1679052

Supermon it keeps the town a float

shaggylegend (Monaghan) - Posts: 1940 - 17/12/2014 11:27:45    1679053

It definitely does Shaggy, I agree with you there.

Redmick, I'm calling it as I see it based on the matches that I have attended there. And plenty more would agree. You can't deny that this view of Andersonstown is one that is widely held.

supermon (Monaghan) - Posts: 1073 - 17/12/2014 11:37:51    1679057

This is a development that WE all need:-
1. It will revitalise Belfast, West Belfast and Ulster
2. Clones has served its purpose but we need a new modern stadium for a 21st century
3. IT not in my back yard - which has led to this problem....... Casement was there before the residents whose houses were built in the 50's, 60's and 70's.
4. Belfast is the second city on this island and we need a new development
5. For those who say why build a 38,000 ground, why build anew ground in Cork...... Casement will be used

cuchulainn35 (Armagh) - Posts: 1684 - 17/12/2014 11:40:08    1679060

Suppose its a different situation in that there are less residential houses right beside the stands in Clones so the direct impact or concerns that the residents had in Belfast wouldn't be the same. However, until people are put in a situation you really can't say how they will react to planned development and its not to say that some of the residents around St Tiernachs would lodge objections to an enclosed stadium being put up. You see this from local level when people are trying to build a house in the country say and the planning letters go out - it is not uncommon for someone to have objections to something they are doing (and in a lot of cases it is quite unexpected from those who put in the plans - especially given they are neighbours). Factor this up to a stadium and you have more complainants but as I say, not every situation is the same. I pointed out in a previous post to Tyrone posters who were saying it should be built there as the people would welcome it that the A5 upgrade fell on its erse because landowners and residents along the route also took it to a Judicial Review.

Offside_Rule (Antrim) - Posts: 4058 - 17/12/2014 11:43:08    1679063

Bottom line is I just think that Clones shouldn't be discounted when making a decision on where to redevelop a stadium in Ulster. Only considering 6 of the 9 counties of Ulster just because the money is coming from British Authorities is discriminatory to the other three counties. Its the ULSTER COUNCIL not the Northern Ireland Council. Last time I checked the Ulster Council included Monaghan Cavan and Donegal.

The GAA and the Ulster Council should only accept funding for projects like this on the basis that it could be spent in any of the 9 counties. The association shouldn't be bullied into a partitionist ethos just because of a financial carrot being held in front of them.

If this means an arrangement that two thirds funding comes from the North and one Third from the Government in the South then so be it.

supermon (Monaghan) - Posts: 1073 - 17/12/2014 11:47:24    1679064

Not looking good people

Tim_Burr (Down) - Posts: 460 - 17/12/2014 12:01:01    1679067

Bottom line is I just think that Clones shouldn't be discounted when making a decision on where to redevelop a stadium in Ulster. Only considering 6 of the 9 counties of Ulster just because the money is coming from British Authorities is discriminatory to the other three counties. Its the ULSTER COUNCIL not the Northern Ireland Council. Last time I checked the Ulster Council included Monaghan Cavan and Donegal.

The GAA and the Ulster Council should only accept funding for projects like this on the basis that it could be spent in any of the 9 counties. The association shouldn't be bullied into a partitionist ethos just because of a financial carrot being held in front of them.

If this means an arrangement that two thirds funding comes from the North and one Third from the Government in the South then so be it.

Very ideological though and not taking account of what the actual situation is. The fact is that the majority of the money is coming from the British Government so this cannot be discounted. If this money was coming solely from within the GAA to redevelop a stadium in Ulster then there would be more case and justification for debate on where this new stadium should be located. However, this money was earmarked for Belfast (without getting in to the whole rights and wrongs of the decisions our politicians take) and if it aint happening there it aint happening anywhere. You know as well as I know that if the GAA have been given millions of a purse to develop one of their stadiums they are going to grab it with both hands without too much thought/care as to the source. You may also be aware that if this was to be a joint Government effort then it wouldn't get off the ground as our Unionist friends that sit in power would do their normal digging the heels in and refusing to be seen to co-operate with anything Irish Government related - North/South power network, Narrow Water bridge between Down and Louth, even the A5 upgrade which was eventually going to be part of a North South road network in the west - all these have had the rug pulled from beneath them and there is one common factor or driving force behind making sure they didn't go ahead. If you even suggest a joint venture with the Irish Government which also involves the GAA then you would be getting a few choice words from Mssr Campbell and his mates.

Offside_Rule (Antrim) - Posts: 4058 - 17/12/2014 12:05:44    1679070

The issue for me was traffic management. There's only so much police traffic control can do to mitigate 15-20K vehicles descending off the M1 into Andytown at the same time. The fact the judge as part of his judgement said no proper consideration had been given to traffic management is almost unbelievable in terms of incompetence. Minister Durkan really should be considering his position.

Tis alright to say major stadiums are based in Cities everywhere else but those Cities have proper rail networks, subways and vehicular access to cope with the crowds. As for the money going back to Stormont, that's fine. I'd rather see the money spent elsewhere as being wasted on this disastrous project. Antrim GAA can apply for a smaller grant for a much smaller and more suitable stadium. Good luck to them.

artisan (Down) - Posts: 1794 - 17/12/2014 12:29:51    1679076

I dont know if this is a GAA thing or just an Irish thing in general but the idea that you would go to the Ulster final at Casement park and decide to drive your car down Andersonstown road would be madness. It would be like trying to park at Matt Busby way when going to Old Trafford or something. Whats wrong with parking about a 20 min walk away and avoid any stress. When the Balmoral show was on at the Kings hall the surrounding streets were mobbed but literally a few minutes walk away streets were empty.

boondock (Antrim) - Posts: 9 - 17/12/2014 14:08:15    1679102

Or heavens forbid boondock leaving the car and taking the train to the Balmoral Station and walking up round the 1.6 km from the station to the gates of Casement.

Offside_Rule (Antrim) - Posts: 4058 - 17/12/2014 14:23:00    1679107

That's the thing boondock and indeed artisan - As far as I have been made aware thought has actually gone in to traffic management on match days and among other things there was to be provision of park and ride facilities on Boucher and elsewhere with the roads around Casement to be closed apart from for the bus service to ferry people to and from their cars.

I think you have to look beyond the occasional big game at Casement in the past and understand that with a major stadium and more major games things would have to have been changed and managed to accommodate the numbers and make accessibility as smooth as possible. Same goes even for the match day experience - with Casement becoming the focal point on an ongoing the area would grow into hosting the games and putting on a match day experience.

Obviously the judicial review feels that things did not go far enough in making provision for these numbers but let's be sensible here Motorways make up less than 1% of the road network in Northern Ireland and Casement is beside one of these - if you cannot get traffic away reasonably quickly when plugged right into the main road network then what hope have you anywhere else.

But anyway I do also agree with you artisan that a purpose built Stadium for Antrim funded by selling Casement or hand outs from Croke etc would be more than satisfactory from an Antrim point of view but then this development is not actually so much about Antrim GAA as the location of the main Ulster GAA Stadium.

Naysayer (Antrim) - Posts: 2071 - 17/12/2014 14:27:47    1679109

That's the thing boondock and indeed artisan - As far as I have been made aware thought has actually gone in to traffic management on match days and among other things there was to be provision of park and ride facilities on Boucher and elsewhere with the roads around Casement to be closed apart from for the bus service to ferry people to and from their cars.

Correct Naysayer - the plans as outlined in 2012 said that the Andersonstown Road would be closed on major match days, while a one-mile traffic 'exclusion zone' will prevent anyone apart from local residents from parking in the stadium's vicinity. The GAA were also going to encourage visiting supporters to travel either by train to Balmoral Station or use one of the proposed park and ride schemes. The plans also included 240 parking spaces.

Offside_Rule (Antrim) - Posts: 4058 - 17/12/2014 14:31:52    1679111

25-30000 would still leave Clones with Ulster Final due to it's greater capacity.

supermon (Monaghan) - Posts: 1073 - 17/12/2014 15:26:24    1679133

Looks like the decision will be made tomorrow now.

One of the Barristers is involved in another case which ran longer than expected today apparently.

bumpernut (Antrim) - Posts: 1852 - 17/12/2014 15:40:33    1679144

Personally I don't mind walking 15 - 20 to a pitch. At some games I've walked much longer just to park in an area that gets me away quicker after. I park about 20 min walk from Croke Park when we are playing up there. This is a traditional mindset of the supporters in my own county. City folk would have a different outlook on transport with most using public transport as they are used to it, where and what bus / train to get etc. Dublin, Cork and Antrim supporters would be well used to this format so I can see why you can't imagine why we would use a car but most supporters coming from outside would require plenty of information on alternatives and from my experience with Park & Ride facilties I wouldn't be a fan of these.
Clones, Croke Park, Casement Park, etc, will all have official car parks but on match day these are taken up by teams, officials, stewards, sponsors, disabled users etc. and very rarely the general supporters. If there was a capacity crowd for an Ulster Final can you imagine trying to park anywhere from 15,000 to 20,000 cars. It would be a nightmare. Ofcourse we are used to parking in and around Croke Park and would eventually get used to it in Belfast too but from I'ves had my car stole in Belfast before there would be a reluctance to begin with on parking in this area.

Tir Conaill Abu (Donegal) - Posts: 1675 - 17/12/2014 16:14:28    1679155