Big disappointment. Hopefully it can get sorted out though. I wouldn't give up hope yet.

Belfast is the only option for a new stadium such as the one planned imo.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13777 - 16/12/2014 12:04:50    1678794

We have conferences and Christmas parties in the country too Offside! I would counter that argument by saying there is any number of venues in Belfast which can host such events, and demand is well met. There are less such facilities West of the Bann where a companies could hold a corporate event, and I would say there would be just as much demand, due to limited supply outside Belfast. The ship has sailed now for Casement. The residents have killed the goose which laid the golden egg and now they will get no payout. Unfortunate for the genuine Belfast Gaels but it is time to move this project to a community which will appreciate it.

johnboy7 (Tyrone) - Posts: 79 - 16/12/2014 12:18:36    1678798

Lads just on a point of info. Yes Clones's road infrastructure is not ideal, but its in a much more central location to more Ulster counties that Casement is. Its on the border of 3 counties, Monaghan Cavan and Fermanagh. A short hop from both Armagh and Tyrone (well South Tyrone). Casement would alienate a lot more counties and would make for longer distances to travel.

Sorry supermon but this is another myth. I have gone in to get the directions from the central point (or as close to as possible) from each County in Ulster to St Tiernachs and Casement respectively. Now, what you have to bear in mind is that these are normal travel times so you have to also factor in that the times to Casement won't be greatly affected for any County as most are approaching via Motorway for a sizeable part of the journey - M1 or M2. Anyway, normal journey times are as follows:

Donegal (Fintown)
Casement: 2hrs 16 mins
Clones: 2hrs 10 mins

Fermanagh (Enniskillen)
Casement: 1hr 27 mins
Clones: 37 mins

Derry (Feeny)
Casement: 1hr 11 mins
Clones: 1hr 55 mins

Tyrone (Omagh)
Casement: 1hr 8 mins
Clones: 58 mins

Antrim (Martinstown)
Casement: 50 mins
Clones: 2hrs 10 mins

Monaghan (Monaghan Town)
Casement: 1hr 13 mins
Clones: 21 mins

Cavan (Cavan Town)
Casement: 1hr 58 mins
Clones: 31 mins

Armagh (Markethill)
Casement: 48 mins
Clones: 56 mins

Down (Ballynahinch)
Casement: 23 mins
Clones: 1hr 40 mins

The few Counties who are closer to Clones than Casement in normal traffic will have that advantage more than wiped out on a match day.

Offside_Rule (Antrim) - Posts: 4058 - 16/12/2014 12:28:59    1678802

johnboy - you tell me who the community that will appreciate this is and I guarantee you that there will be people objecting if it is proposed for that community.

Offside_Rule (Antrim) - Posts: 4058 - 16/12/2014 12:32:02    1678804

As an Antrim Gael, first and foremost I feel Antrim need a stadium. It does not have to be 40,000 or anywhere near it. In fact a smaller stadium that would hold 10,000-15,000 would suit Antrim much better as it could be closer to being filled and atmosphere generated accordingly.

As such I am not supporting the idea of a new 40,000 stadium in Belfast because I want it for Antrim. I am simply saying that for a major stadium you need to put it in a major city and there is only one major city in Ulster so on that basis it is a no brainer. While politicians might have a vested interest nothing outweighs the facts that it would be illogical to build a modern 40,000 stadium out in the sticks.

I am sorry if that sticks for folk out west or Donegal, both areas that have been deprived of spending from their respective governments for decades, but modern stadia are about more than accommodating 40,000 people a for a few matches a year etc and while the like of Clones might have a great atmosphere for the hours leading up to the game around the bars there is a little more to it that a bit of banter in the pub.

Naysayer (Antrim) - Posts: 2071 - 16/12/2014 13:23:00    1678812

Time to move on. It was always a vanity project.

artisan (Down) - Posts: 1794 - 16/12/2014 13:33:33    1678819

The redevelopment of Casement was always a necessity but I believe that this project was far too big to put in the middle of a residential area and expect no opposition from local residents. These people have a right to live, they are there 24 hrs a day and the fact, as the judge pointed out, there was just not enough consultation with them. Most of the residents are on record as saying that they are not against the redevelopment of the ground but that this project was on scale that would affect their everyday lives. Bring the capacity down to 28 - 32000 and lower the stands a bit and there would be practically no one in the immediate area opposing it. The residents around the new Aviva were consulted ALL the way about the rebuilding of the old ground and they had an input; the Owenvarragh residents were not.
As for some of the comments about Belfast, especially West Belfast, well they are just a disgrace and stereotypical nonsense. I work in that area with people from all over the North and we don't have any problems parking, we get on very well with residents and local businesses and the bars/restaurants always go out of their way to be friendly. This week bars and clubs in West Belfast will be hosting works Christmas parties and you will hear accents from every one of the six counties at them. I do firmly believe that there is massive jealousy and a condescending arrogance from some Ulster GAA people (especially Tyrone, Armagh and Down) about Belfast, and Antrim in particular, getting this facility. I think this is irony and hypocrisy of the worst order because without Belfast many of these same rural Ulster GAA people wouldn't have their Civil Service/Health Care jobs etc. They take from Belfast all the time but won't give anything in return to the city!
These so called Gaels don't see Belfast as a 'GAA place' which is historical nonsense given that Belfast has always had a thriving GAA club scene going back well over a century. The city, and GAA scene, suffered a lot in the conflict and many people are trying to re-establish this. We always had great youth teams and in the late 60's/ early 70's we had a very good youth set up reaching several All Ireland finals. Rossa and St.Gall's have reached All Ireland club finals so some should get their facts right before lambasting Belfast. As I say I think the project should be rethought and a stadium built there and many Ulster GAA people should lose their massive chip about Belfast.

Ulsterman (Antrim) - Posts: 9780 - 16/12/2014 14:16:40    1678830

Ulsterman
"This week bars and clubs in West Belfast will be hosting works Christmas parties and you will hear accents from every one of the six counties at them."

Persons from the wee 3 need not apply!!

Tir Conaill Abu (Donegal) - Posts: 1675 - 16/12/2014 14:41:29    1678839

I just meant workwise Tir Connail; no offence intended towards our fellow Ulster Gaels in Donegal, Cavan and Monaghan. However you are right, there are people from all over the island living and working in Belfast. For a while there all I could see were Cavan regsitered workvans all around the city LOL. It's the stereotypical nonsense about Belfast that riles me sometimes and it is just that..nonsense. At the Michaela Harte game at Casement there was a crowd of 15000+ and there were people from every county in Ireland. Accents from everywhere could be heard in and around Belfast, especially West Belfast, that weekend and there wasn't much problem about access to the ground, parking or local bars, restaurants and businesses.

Ulsterman (Antrim) - Posts: 9780 - 16/12/2014 15:04:28    1678847

No offence taken Ulsterman. I have lived in Belfast for a period of time and have many friends still there. Belfast sense of humour is unique and I never felt unwelcome in the city. Some people will not be happy no matter where the development takes place so we'll live with that.
As I stated previously if consultations had taken place between all the county boards and the decision made on GAA grounds I wouldn't be as annoyed by this project but I hate decisions being made on political grounds with a carrot of big money persuading the decision makers. Although I'm not privy to all the parts of the Casement Project there seems to be plenty of failings by all parties concerned with some of these being:
- The residents seem annoyed at a lack of consultation on the project even though the GAA seems happy with the consultation (Who to believe)
- The lack of transparency about who decided on The Casement Project. Was any other venue even considered?
- The general GAA public have issued concerns on parking for the matches but these fears haven't been allayed by any press release that I'm aware off.

From a Donegal perspective the distance to Casement is an issue but we are well used to travelling from the county anyway so after a few years of grumbling we'll get over it. We don't have a rail link and 80% of our support travels by cars. That is a hell of a lot of cars and has any calculations been done on where these cars would go? About 10% of those will have any knowledge of Belfast so there is anxiety amongst some sections of Donegal support that they would end up in the wrong area!! Not once has any of these issues been dealt with by our county delegates to the Ulster Council and if they have no response has ever been forthcoming.

As a player, I have played in Casement and Clones and enjoyed both but in current times where teams are trained to the highest quality their requirements on facilities are way ahead of what I was used to. The County teams put in so much effort that they deserve the best of facilities so hopefully if the Casement Project is to be shelved another venue can be earmarked for redevelopment BUT only after some more transparent decision making!!

Tir Conaill Abu (Donegal) - Posts: 1675 - 16/12/2014 15:42:18    1678857

First and foremost, I would like to remind some people that this is a Government and not a GAA funded project and as dead and buried as it now looks there will only be one location if it somehow does go ahead and that is Belfast. So could we give over about Clones or 'central Ulster' etc unless the GAA want to intervene with a proposal of their own for Ulster.

Secondly, I would like to speak in defence of several decent GAA people living in Owenvarragh/Mooreland who I know for a fact accepted their compensation packs and were ready for the go ahead only to be halted by a minority of non-GAA residents who are too self centred to even begin to understand the ethos of the GAA. They are the reason the chairman of the association resigned in disgust and why a lot of decent people are getting branded with them as money grabbers and hand out demanders.

Its a crying shame that a minority in this country can command such influence over major economical advancements all for the sake of a quick earner or a 'fleg' etc. And they say democracy is a majority thing?? evidently not!

SaffronDon (Antrim) - Posts: 2487 - 16/12/2014 16:12:39    1678869

Good God Ulsterman, I didn't think it possible for that west Belfast chip on your shoulder to get any bigger, but it's now growing out of control. Please step away from your laptop!!

sean og (Armagh) - Posts: 1071 - 16/12/2014 16:22:17    1678873

For me the idea of redeveloping Casement into a 38000 capacity stadium was just silly. To spend 80 million stg on a place that would be full once or twice every year, pure lunacy. We need to look at upgrading Clones to a certain extent. It would not cost a fraction of what Casement was going to cost. Our Ulster council reps will no doubt claim that it was UK Government money that was going to fund Casement, but for me an upgraded Clones that totally remains in the control of Ulster council GAA is a far better option. Our Ulster council friends have not covered themselves in glory here and there was a certain element of arrogance in relation to the whole casement park project. Probably in hindsight they should have consulted the Gaa members in the 9 counties prior to the start of this whole debacle.

rossie72 (Roscommon) - Posts: 63 - 16/12/2014 19:24:37    1678917

Ok can we stop talking about Clones. 62 million of the 77 million budget is coming from the British government so they are hardly going to pay for a stadium upgrade in the Republic. As stated earlier the stadium has to be big enough for the Ulster final and will need to host a few concerts in the year to make it viable. Belfast is the only realistic option but where? The residents have already shown themselves to be stubborn. First of all a 32000 stadium is a fair compromise but that wont happen the residents only want a 20000 stadium knowing full well that that is useless to the GAA. If the stadium actually was built could you imagine their uproar every time the GAA wanted to use it for sports or concerts. The GAA should have been warned off by their resistance a long time ago and built the stadium somewhere else. Just one point to the residents, when they bought their houses next to the biggest GAA stadium in Northern Ireland were they really so naive or just dumb not to realise future development was a strong possibility. Also interesting to note in the news tonight that 18 mths ago the GAA offered the residents 1 million and even offered some the market value of their properties and yet they still moaned. Im sure greater West Belfast are delighted not to get the project I mean it just cant get enough investment, opportunities like this happen all the time obviously

boondock (Antrim) - Posts: 9 - 16/12/2014 20:13:50    1678940

Rossie72 ...to say it would be full once or twice a year is a joke...most ulster championship games will pack that staduim..attendances are quite better here than your connaught games..disappointed for ulster and antrim gaa. Looked very impressive.

.tribute (Cavan) - Posts: 360 - 16/12/2014 20:17:20    1678942

Tribute in fairness i don't think to many ulster matches attract 38k other then the final.

ros1 (Roscommon) - Posts: 1211 - 16/12/2014 22:00:40    1678982

A few things of interest in yesterdays Irish News.

I wasnt aware that some "leading lights" within the residents collective had stepped down and that the GAA had came up with a compensation package with residents or most of them, may not be a connection here.
Houses within area A (closest to stadium) would get £20000, B £15000 C £10000 and D £5000. There would also be a community centre of 2000 square foot constructed. At an earlier court case re social club was also resolved to accomodate residents.

Anto Finnegan and other Antrim players past and present are making noises about a stadium for Antrim. Talk about reducing the size to 25000 and using the money saved to invest in coaching and structures within Antrim. Anto also went on to talk about playing in front of 30000 in Casement, id be surprised Antrim footballers ever got 30000 at one of their matches in Casement Park but I could be wrong - sorry lads but this proposed stadium is for all of Ulster gaels and maybe thats why non Belfast gaels do not have much sympathy with this circus that is being played out. I was told last night that a well known follically challenged former Antrim star from the glens said that it was hard enough to get into Casement before but give them a new ground and it will be near impossible.

The reality is a stadium should have been built at Long Kesh, due to the short sightenedness of Norn iron soccer it wasnt so the money was split 3 ways with £66 million going to Ulster GAA and not Antrim GAA.

If that money is not spent in total on one project it goes back to the NI exchequer - a complete shambles but then again are we surprised

Tim_Burr (Down) - Posts: 460 - 17/12/2014 09:21:03    1679003

looking at this from the outside I would ask what is the capacity of Ravenhill rugby ground. To me a development of 22,000 is big enough. I mean you have Croke park and Clones not to far away. Croke park was used 10 or 11 years ago for Ulster finals. An hour down the Motorway. In my opinion the GAA needs to talk to the local residents a lot more. Remember Garth Brooks fiasco. Sometimes with GAA top brass it seems it is a "business" first and organization second.

galwayford (Galway) - Posts: 2565 - 17/12/2014 09:26:38    1679007

Offside_Rule
County: Antrim
Posts: 1833

1678802
Lads just on a point of info. Yes Clones's road infrastructure is not ideal, but its in a much more central location to more Ulster counties that Casement is. Its on the border of 3 counties, Monaghan Cavan and Fermanagh. A short hop from both Armagh and Tyrone (well South Tyrone). Casement would alienate a lot more counties and would make for longer distances to travel.

Sorry supermon but this is another myth. I have gone in to get the directions from the central point (or as close to as possible) from each County in Ulster to St Tiernachs and Casement respectively. Now, what you have to bear in mind is that these are normal travel times so you have to also factor in that the times to Casement won't be greatly affected for any County as most are approaching via Motorway for a sizeable part of the journey - M1 or M2. Anyway, normal journey times are as follows:

Donegal (Fintown)
Casement: 2hrs 16 mins
Clones: 2hrs 10 mins

Fermanagh (Enniskillen)
Casement: 1hr 27 mins
Clones: 37 mins

Derry (Feeny)
Casement: 1hr 11 mins
Clones: 1hr 55 mins

Tyrone (Omagh)
Casement: 1hr 8 mins
Clones: 58 mins

Antrim (Martinstown)
Casement: 50 mins
Clones: 2hrs 10 mins

Monaghan (Monaghan Town)
Casement: 1hr 13 mins
Clones: 21 mins

Cavan (Cavan Town)
Casement: 1hr 58 mins
Clones: 31 mins

Armagh (Markethill)
Casement: 48 mins
Clones: 56 mins

Down (Ballynahinch)
Casement: 23 mins
Clones: 1hr 40 mins

The few Counties who are closer to Clones than Casement in normal traffic will have that advantage more than wiped out on a match day.

Benjamin Disraeli once said: "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." In terms of Ulster Gaels and where they are more commonly found in Ulster, Clones is most convenient in my book. Your stats, however flawed they may be, still point to the common 'fact' that Clones is as much in the extreme south of the province. It actually further north than many parts of the 6 counties.

supermon (Monaghan) - Posts: 1073 - 17/12/2014 09:28:29    1679008

Benjamin Disraeli once said: "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." In terms of Ulster Gaels and where they are more commonly found in Ulster, Clones is most convenient in my book. Your stats, however flawed they may be, still point to the common 'fact' that Clones is as much in the extreme south of the province. It actually further north than many parts of the 6 counties.

And of course I take you are referring to your own 'facts' that Clones was more centrally located given I have shown this to be false and thats not even on Match days. And what pray tell is flawed about taking the central location of each County and working out the distance? Can you suggest a fairer way? And lastly, what has the bit about it being further North than many parts of the 6 counties got to do with the price of eggs - I am sure Google was well aware of this when giving me the times and distances from each point I entered. No, I am still satisfied with my opinion prior to going and checking this that Casement was more accessible for more counties that Clones both on Match day and on any given day. You really should check out your own 'facts' before posting them as such on a public forum - schoolboy error ;-)

Offside_Rule (Antrim) - Posts: 4058 - 17/12/2014 10:44:28    1679034