National Forum

Casement Park

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Replying To Naysayer:  "Offside_Rule I do not think the call here is for Clones over Belfast as travel to Belfast from most parts would be much easier but rather the main call is for another site to be developed using executive money which is geographically more central. But I understand your point that if Clones has been good enough for decades surely Belfast is hardly going to be any more hassle unless of course you prefer Clones town to West Belfast.

Just had a look there and Malinbeg to Belfast is given at 3hrs 12 mins, granted that is a bit of a trek alright but then much of this is to do with the infrastructure in this part of Donegal as Malinbeg to Dungannon (a suggested alternative) is 2hrs 38mins - in essence an additional half an hour to Belfast and that is looking at the extremes and before you look at all other considerations."
I agree it's not a call for Clones over Belfast, the roads to Belfast are much better in that regard.

But I think we have an opportunity to finally locate a new Provincial Stadium somewhere that fully caters to the needs of all Provincial fans, and I don't think enough pressure has been put on those funding the proposed Casement to be sure they wouldn't consider an alternative site.

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3026 - 31/05/2016 20:20:27    1860377

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Replying To Naysayer:  "Guys if it was to be that the stadium was located geographically in the centre of Ulster I would not have any complaints as it would do the job and ultimately any financial hit would not be directly out of my pocket. But I have said all along, and particularly emphasized when there was talk that Casement had hit a wall, there was never going to be an alternative as far as the process was concerned. You can say what you like about the way it came about but ultimately no other option was ever likely.

In terms of infrastructure, commercial potential of the venue, travel times, value added etc I still believe that Casement does have a lot of merit. Yes there are parts of the province that are a bit of a journey and I said it was Donegal folk I felt sorry for a year or two ago on this forum but we are a small Country let alone Province so realistically once or twice a year to Belfast is not going to require Christopher Columbus to plan the expedition. I have family in Cavan who have said they can get back quicker from a game In Casement than Clones. Journey aside, which I admit favours a geographically central stadium (but only on the assumption that major infrastructure investment is secured to stop it being another Clones bottleneck) I believe every other consideration for modern stadia favours Belfast.

Gary you say that Antrim posters are the only ones on here fighting for Belfast and this is because of the parochial outlook from us. I would say that is more to do with pointing out the advantages of Belfast in the face of claims that it is almost preposterous to put a provincial stadium there. But look if you ask any of us what our priority would be I would say all would say a decent county ground over a provincial stadium. You have to remember that in the middle of this mess we have become nomads as far as our county teams are concerned.

For those who find Belfast too far to travel I assume you give Croke Park a miss when your team gets to that stage?"
Your relatives from Cavan must have been using a horse and cart for their journey from Clones to Cavan. The Antrim posters that keep going on about Clones being a bottleneck were obviously not at the Monaghan- Down match a number of years ago when quite a few of the crowd were unable to get off the motorway and ended up eventually doing a U-turn at the Stockmans lane roundabout and going home. While I do realise that Clones does have its problems would an alternative not be to develop a smaller scale Casement using the british governments money and using the money that central council has set aside (approx. 17m) to improve facilities in Clones. I am aware that plans were being developed before the economic collapse in the south to develop another route from the Monaghan road to the Roslea road that would have opened up quite a bit of land for parking and easier access to St. Tiernachs park. The main Clones-Monaghan road is earmarked for an upgrade so this would greatly relieve congestion on what is the main access route for most people

clonfad (Fermanagh) - Posts: 11 - 31/05/2016 20:43:38    1860383

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Relatives just said they were practically home to Cavan by the time they were getting pulled out of a field in Clones. Was the problem that match you speak of not due to road upgrades? The result of a few years of pain is an very good Motorway with enough lanes to disperse tens of thousands of people out of Belfast at rush period every working day.

Naysayer (Antrim) - Posts: 2071 - 31/05/2016 21:57:09    1860402

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Gary possibly not enough pressure was put on. As far as I could see the most effort was by local residents

Naysayer (Antrim) - Posts: 2071 - 31/05/2016 22:00:37    1860404

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Replying To Naysayer:  "Relatives just said they were practically home to Cavan by the time they were getting pulled out of a field in Clones. Was the problem that match you speak of not due to road upgrades? The result of a few years of pain is an very good Motorway with enough lanes to disperse tens of thousands of people out of Belfast at rush period every working day."
Up until now, roads was one of the major benefits that Belfast has to offer, in that quite a few motorways spring out of Belfast.
However those motorways don't go very far in North West or South West directions, meaning that they offer limited time benefit.

The A5 Derry to Monaghan Dual Carriageway would possibly counter that, opening up access to Monaghan, Cavan, Fermanagh, West Tyrone, Donegal and Derry. Granted as of right now, only the Derry to Strabane section is ready to go, with Strabane to Omagh delayed.
Politicians in Donegal are campaigning for the Letterkenny Link to coincide with the A5, a Link road from Letterkenny to Lifford/Strabane, which would open up a large portion of Donegal to the A5. Similar improvements are likely between Ballygawley and Enniskillen.

My proposal is not simply to plant a Stadium in some random field up some poor back road, It would need to be on a main route hub. Somewhere central to all 9 Counties of Ulster who will likely end up playing all Ulster Championship games there for the first few years. A low cost version could easily be achieved, by cutting out large firms with huge profit margins.

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3026 - 02/06/2016 22:00:22    1861046

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Replying To GaryMc82:  "Up until now, roads was one of the major benefits that Belfast has to offer, in that quite a few motorways spring out of Belfast.
However those motorways don't go very far in North West or South West directions, meaning that they offer limited time benefit.

The A5 Derry to Monaghan Dual Carriageway would possibly counter that, opening up access to Monaghan, Cavan, Fermanagh, West Tyrone, Donegal and Derry. Granted as of right now, only the Derry to Strabane section is ready to go, with Strabane to Omagh delayed.
Politicians in Donegal are campaigning for the Letterkenny Link to coincide with the A5, a Link road from Letterkenny to Lifford/Strabane, which would open up a large portion of Donegal to the A5. Similar improvements are likely between Ballygawley and Enniskillen.

My proposal is not simply to plant a Stadium in some random field up some poor back road, It would need to be on a main route hub. Somewhere central to all 9 Counties of Ulster who will likely end up playing all Ulster Championship games there for the first few years. A low cost version could easily be achieved, by cutting out large firms with huge profit margins."
Big problem in general GaryMc82 is that when public funds are allocated there is a process that seems to always end up with not the most efficient contractors on the job. I suppose the positive from these proposed new roads is that it should make the journey home from Casement even quicker for people to the west when they get round to completing them. I appreciate that you would prefer these roads to be taken into consideration when locating the Stadium but given that one seems to have sailed may as well look on the positive of such infrastructure improvements.

Naysayer (Antrim) - Posts: 2071 - 03/06/2016 10:22:48    1861116

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Too much of a love in going on now for my liking lads!

Gary Im putting my house up for sale soon, you interested in buying it?

We could turn you full circle!

bumpernut (Antrim) - Posts: 1852 - 03/06/2016 12:04:23    1861158

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Replying To bumpernut:  "Too much of a love in going on now for my liking lads!

Gary Im putting my house up for sale soon, you interested in buying it?

We could turn you full circle!"
Its the sunny weather bumpernut - always has that effect on me.

Naysayer (Antrim) - Posts: 2071 - 03/06/2016 14:31:23    1861239

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Aye we can lose the run of ourselves when you mix the sun and a Friday naysayer!

bumpernut (Antrim) - Posts: 1852 - 03/06/2016 14:42:38    1861244

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Replying To bumpernut:  "Too much of a love in going on now for my liking lads!

Gary Im putting my house up for sale soon, you interested in buying it?

We could turn you full circle!"
Multiple Antrim parochial posts here might as well be one poster, as it doesn't broaden your argument in terms of wider support across Ulster for it. I can understand you boys not been able to look past a Stadium on your own doorstep, its not something to be embarrassed about, as you all get upset about being Identified as parochial support.

I on the other hand take a less dogmatic view, for example I support making Owenbeg Derry's County ground, even though Celtic Park is literally 2 or 3 minutes from my door. That's being selfless for the greater good, It's about removing as much hassle as possible for people considering attending games.

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3026 - 03/06/2016 16:31:42    1861282

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Says you Gary.

Naysayer (Antrim) - Posts: 2071 - 03/06/2016 17:43:30    1861295

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In an ideal world putting a new stadium in mid Ulster is probably very fair but realistically Gary the GAA doesn't operate in an Eamon de Valera 'comely maidens dancing at the crossroads Ireland anymore'. A new Casement is a hard-nosed business and political choice. Sinn Fein want to even up Ravenhill and Windsor and the GAA want a return on the ground if that means concerts and other events.

Ulsterman (Antrim) - Posts: 9818 - 03/06/2016 21:14:05    1861353

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Replying To Ulsterman:  "In an ideal world putting a new stadium in mid Ulster is probably very fair but realistically Gary the GAA doesn't operate in an Eamon de Valera 'comely maidens dancing at the crossroads Ireland anymore'. A new Casement is a hard-nosed business and political choice. Sinn Fein want to even up Ravenhill and Windsor and the GAA want a return on the ground if that means concerts and other events."
The GAA is the people on the ground like us, not the dozen or so men is a Dublin board room or delegates sent forth by clubs. Many clubs often have internal power struggles for power within said club, and those who come out on top from those struggles are not necessarily the best people to have in running the club or making key decisions. Yet these are the cabbages who make some calls.

I don't care what Sinn Fein want, they are not the GAA and their recent track record in making decisions worries me. You can't simply build a Stadium to get even with Loyalists or Unionists over Ravenhill or Windsor park, that's a petty approach for something so costly. Their focus is on political gains, my focus is on making travel easier for GAA fans.

Key points to note
1. It's primary focus should be to serve the GAA fans who have invested so much over the years, GAA bosses and Politicians are quick to forget the millions of funding the get from GAA fans every year. Instead they focus in the single large payments they receive from the British Government.

2. It's initial proposed design was overkill, a simplistic low cost design would suffice for a Stadium that will only host maybe 10-15 major games per year. Having a background in Architecture, I know that things like complex stand or roof designs allow costs to spiral. If you seeking to have restaurants, bars and other corporate facilities, these will also increase cost significantly. We need a suitable venue to cater for our needs, not a monster mash that is rarely used. Efficiency is key

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3026 - 04/06/2016 13:01:37    1861457

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And for the record,

My original suggestion was either build on a green field site along the proposed A5 dual carriageway, but was also open to developing an existing site such as Healy Park in Omagh. This would be central, and meet the time requirements in all directions.

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3026 - 04/06/2016 13:23:55    1861460

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Gary, you remind me of the two Japanese soldiers who were found in the jungles of the Philippines years after WWII had ended. They refused to believe Japan had been defeated and had to be forced out on the orders of the Emperor; it was the only thing they would bow to. I have visions of you being talked out of the Sperrins 10 years after the new Casement has been open. Waving a Derry flag and demanding a new stadium before you come out.

Ulsterman (Antrim) - Posts: 9818 - 04/06/2016 13:51:29    1861464

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Replying To Ulsterman:  "Gary, you remind me of the two Japanese soldiers who were found in the jungles of the Philippines years after WWII had ended. They refused to believe Japan had been defeated and had to be forced out on the orders of the Emperor; it was the only thing they would bow to. I have visions of you being talked out of the Sperrins 10 years after the new Casement has been open. Waving a Derry flag and demanding a new stadium before you come out."
You Antrim posters remind me of three little pigs, all afraid that the big bad Derry man will blow the Stadium down.

Just read the last 20-30 comments by yourselves, and It's easy to understand why you're worried by my comments. I'm highlighting serious flaws with this proposal, that a lot of people including politicians North, South and England, as well as the GAA in both Dublin and Ulster don't want raised.

This stadium isn't built, and this is the best time to have in-depth analysis and discussion on forums such as this. And so far none of you have put up any argument that favours the wider Ulster GAA community.

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3026 - 04/06/2016 14:41:49    1861472

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Jaysus, go a way a day or two and we are still trying to sell tickets for Utopia. I am away to read Paradise Lost here for a bit of craic.

Offside_Rule (Antrim) - Posts: 4058 - 04/06/2016 14:56:29    1861478

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No harm Gary but the way you have been going on you would think that this Stadium is being built in Edinburgh or else the main mode of transport is the bicycle.

Reason I know it is not bicycle is because of the supporte safety concerns around Owenbeg is relation to motor vehicles and inappropriate parking and pathways.

Naysayer (Antrim) - Posts: 2071 - 04/06/2016 17:30:58    1861509

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Gary

The reality is that this stadium ( also an potential asset to the gaa on non Ulster championship days) is being built where it is deemed it will generate most financial revenue. You represent a typical narrow minded parochial view point all too common in the GAA community that it should facilitate you so you don't have to travel so far when you may or may not choose to travel on Ulster Championship day. It is clear that like most rural Derry GAA people you HATE Antrim especially the west Belfast fraternity, get over it my friend!! Having seen how much money Bruce Springsteen has generated the GAA in the last few weeks surely you can see that a modern day stadium in the city with the best infra structure and accessibility is the only option. No one, and I mean no one would consider attending such an event in a backwater! This stadium is not being paid for by the GAA so don't harp on about our stadium for our games, this is 2016, this is a financial decision and a business decision to get the most in return in revenue. If you don't like it, don't go, it's simple!! Your bigoted attitude won't be missed and I assume wherever you go on match day you're too miserable to contribute much to the surrounding event other than the price of your match ticket (which you probably gripe about) in addition to how much your diesel costs you to get there. You, my friend, are an asset to no one. It's happening, try to move with the times, enjoy the surroundings if you do go and make an occasion of it.

oso (Antrim) - Posts: 168 - 05/06/2016 10:06:01    1861677

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Firstly, the idea that it is me against a huge crowd is doubtful, I spoke last year about uncanny similarities between how a few Antrim posters write or word certain things, basically I think a few Antrim posters are the same person.

Gary, The reality is that this stadium ( also an potential asset to the gaa on non Ulster championship days) is being built where it is deemed it will generate most financial revenue. You represent a typical narrow minded parochial view point all too common in the GAA community that it should facilitate you so you don't have to travel so far when you may or may not choose to travel on Ulster Championship day. It is clear that like most rural Derry GAA people you HATE Antrim especially the west Belfast fraternity, get over it my friend!!

1. I speak in favour of GAA fans across a province, you speak in favour of your own parochial benefits, now explain how my view is the one that is parochial, when I speak of Monaghan, Cavan, Fermanagh, Donegal etc, and your alter-ego's speak of Belfast only?
2. I can't speak for most rural Derry people, I live in Derry City and have no opinion on West Belfast, my earlier comments mentioned this several times. Read them and learn something.


Having seen how much money Bruce Springsteen has generated the GAA in the last few weeks surely you can see that a modern day stadium in the city with the best infra structure and accessibility is the only option. No one, and I mean no one would consider attending such an event in a backwater!

Funny Bruce Springsteen also sold out Nolan Park in Kilkenny City back in 2013, I have family who attended those. Kilkenny has a similar population size to Omagh. 20,000 attended those concerts. I also personally attended Slane Castle one year, with about 80,000 other fans. If you have ever been in Slane village and the surrounding roads, you will probably be privately regretting you above statement, as clearly its nonsense.

This stadium is not being paid for by the GAA so don't harp on about our stadium for our games, this is 2016, this is a financial decision and a business decision to get the most in return in revenue.

1. Who exactly is paying for this Stadium? Noting that the Northern Executive only operate a block grant from their masters in London, this is British Government money is it not?
2. It may be a business decision, but it is one that adversely effects the people who contribute the most to the GAA. All this money the GAA rakes in is never enough, they always want more and yet those who contribute the most are the least thought about. GAA fans contribute millions to the GAA, yet that is all ignored if a large single payment is being made. You should be ashamed of yourselves for being proud of selling out to those don't give a rats arse about the GAA.

If you don't like it, don't go, it's simple!! Your bigoted attitude won't be missed and I assume wherever you go on match day you're too miserable to contribute much to the surrounding event other than the price of your match ticket (which you probably gripe about) in addition to how much your diesel costs you to get there. You, my friend, are an asset to no one. It's happening, try to move with the times, enjoy the surroundings if you do go and make an occasion of it.
oso (Antrim) - Posts:140 - 05/06/2016 10:06:01 1

I have just wiped the floor with every previous thing you said in this post, but the above part was of such bad taste, I don't need to even comment. You said enough about yourself here. 140 posts, must be an alter ego troll profile.

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3026 - 05/06/2016 15:38:47    1861813

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