Oh and I now declare victory for Belfast.

Naysayer (Antrim) - Posts: 2071 - 13/01/2015 10:44:27    1682746

So so i naysayer.

In fact while we're at it so does my other usernames as well!

bumpernut (Antrim) - Posts: 1852 - 13/01/2015 12:25:28    1682780

*so do i naysayer*

bumpernut (Antrim) - Posts: 1852 - 13/01/2015 12:44:29    1682794

Naysayer
County: Antrim
Posts: 1083


Naysayer, your statistics cover Northern Ireland only ( 6 counties ). Ulster GAA covers 9 Counties of Ulster!!

Maybe the Donegal poster had a point about some within the 6 counties excluding the other 3.

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 13/01/2015 19:27:55    1682947

GaryMc82
County: Derry
Posts: 1548

1682683
Ulsterman
County: Antrim
Posts: 7093

1682389
Windsor Park and Ravenhill have or are being upgraded without any major arguement from the soccer or rugby fraternity. No this atipathy to Casement and Belfast is solely parochial, jealousy, bitterness and infamous rural GAA begrudgery.

Where are you really from Ulsterman?? I only as as I'm a bit shocked by your statement, that I can only assume your not a native of Ulster.

Let's look at the profile of the Northern Ireland soccer fans and Ulster Rugby fans.
1. Both set of fans are almost exclusively Unionist ( Rugby would have a small Nationalist following, N Ireland soccer team probably smaller again )
2. Majority of Northern Ireland's Unionists live in Antrim and Down ( Belfast is on their doorstep ).
3. The larger Unionist community are unlikely to ever argue to have any money spent West of the Bann.

I'm baffled as to how you felt this statement would support the Pro-Casement Park argument.

As for being Parochial, I'm not a poster on here arguing for the Stadium to be located in my own back yard.

As for the GAA begrudgery you speak of is "democracy" within Ulster GAA, which probably feels like begrudgery due to the majority of Ulster Gael's reside outside of Belfast City.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I wanted to re-post some points I made in reply to Ulsterman last night, as statistically I reckon I'm spot on in my statement correcting what was an stupid post to make.

I'm correct in saying the majority of Ulster Gael's ( GAA Fans/GAA club members ) reside outside of Belfast and Indeed Antrim/Down.

I'm also correct in saying the majority of Ulster Rugby fans and also Northern Ireland football fans are based in around Antrim/Down. So naturally they will be in favour of both Stadium's being located on their doorstep ( Belfast ).

I was correct in pointing out that a man accusing rural GAA of being Parochial, is fighting to have the Stadium in his own back yard ( His county ), unlike me.

I could probably do this for the posts over the past few days, although this one post strongly shows why I won the argument.

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 13/01/2015 20:15:45    1682969

"2. Majority of Northern Ireland's Unionists live in Antrim and Down ( Belfast is on their doorstep"

then someone posted facts to prove that point wrong and you change it from Northern Ireland to 9 county Ulster LOL. Good of you to repost it as well. What's this debate you think you've won then Gary? it seems to keep changing as we go. All I know is I haven't heard any proposals made bar the Casement Park project so I don't quite know where your claiming victory from. Come on down from those clouds for a while.

SaffronDon
County: Antrim
Posts: 92

1683264
"2. Majority of Northern Ireland's Unionists live in Antrim and Down ( Belfast is on their doorstep"

then someone posted facts to prove that point wrong and you change it from Northern Ireland to 9 county Ulster LOL. Good of you to repost it as well. What's this debate you think you've won then Gary? it seems to keep changing as we go. All I know is I haven't heard any proposals made bar the Casement Park project so I don't quite know where your claiming victory from. Come on down from those clouds for a while.


I don't get your statement SaffronDon, I don't think you understood my post to Ulsterman.........I'll clarify.

Ulsterman mentioned how Windsor Park and Ravenhill hadn't received any complaints about locating their Stadiums in Belfast City. And I countered with the obvious, that both teams having a following that is almost exclusively from the Unionist community. And strictly in the case of the Northern Ireland International team, that applies to the 6 counties they represent.

While in the case of the Ulster Rugby team, they do technically cover 9 county Ulster. However their support comes almost entirely from within Northern Ireland, within which the vast majority of their support comes from the Unionist community of which the majority live near Belfast.
So the majority of Northern Ireland team fans and Ulster Rugby team fans, regardless of within 6 counties or the 9 counties, have a strong clear majority living in Antrim and Down ( Near Belfast ). So naturally the majority of their fans won't object to those 2 Stadiums being based in Belfast City.

However GAA fans is a very different matter!!,

The majority of Ulster's GAA fans do not reside in Belfast City, Co Antrim or Co Down.
With stronger Club membership, season ticket sales and overall attendances in North, West and South Ulster.
And Ulster GAA council has representative's from all 9 Counties of Ulster, unlike the IFA or Ulster Rugby Board.

So technically my original point stands true and correct when discussing Northern Ireland football or Ulster Rugby, as the majority of fans still reside in Co Antrim and Co Down, even if you look at it over the 9 counties.

This really highlights why a more central location would make more sense.

I'm away back up to the cloud's.

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 14/01/2015 20:29:24    1683333

Naysayer, your statistics cover Northern Ireland only ( 6 counties ). Ulster GAA covers 9 Counties of Ulster!!


Hang on - you were the one who brought up the west of the Bann and how Unionists never spend money there then pull Naysayer on the fact he gives a breakdown for west of the Bann and east of the Bann in terms of the North while ignoring the 3 counties in the South. Jaysus you are hard to follow.

Offside_Rule (Antrim) - Posts: 4058 - 14/01/2015 20:49:20    1683347

I wonder what Gary makes of the many South Derry Gaels who aren't too happy to track over the Glenshane Pass to go to county games in Derry City given that Derry City is a soccer place and NOT really a GAA town? Gary would of course agree that the beating heart of the GAA in Derry lies in the south of the county and refurbishing Celtic Park goes against what Derry Gaels wanted?

Ulsterman (Antrim) - Posts: 9780 - 14/01/2015 21:11:00    1683354

Yeah see he ignored that point when it was made yesterday.

Offside_Rule (Antrim) - Posts: 4058 - 14/01/2015 21:28:29    1683363

Actually, when you think about each County and where the home ground is:

Derry - couldn't be more extreme to the North West and furthest from the GAA heartland in the County
Antrim - extreme SE of County
Down - extreme S of County
Donegal - extreme East and near the Tyrone border
Monaghan - extreme West of the County
Cavan - pretty Northerly in County

Armagh, Tyrone and Fermanagh are quite central.

Can't wait for the Hoganstand campaign to get these grounds moved more central within the county as a matter of fairness to the proper Gaels within each.

Offside_Rule (Antrim) - Posts: 4058 - 14/01/2015 21:38:17    1683368

Offside_Rule
County: Antrim
Posts: 1890

1683347

Naysayer, your statistics cover Northern Ireland only ( 6 counties ). Ulster GAA covers 9 Counties of Ulster!!


Hang on - you were the one who brought up the west of the Bann and how Unionists never spend money there then pull Naysayer on the fact he gives a breakdown for west of the Bann and east of the Bann in terms of the North while ignoring the 3 counties in the South. Jaysus you are hard to follow.


Yes thats correct, I did bring up "West of the Bann" in reference to Policitcal Unionists never willing to let money go there, while addressing how Naysayer Ignored Donegal, Cavan and Monaghan, exceptionally strong GAA counties withing Ulster GAA who are also West of the Bann both in Geographical and GAA terms.

You should have posted Naysayers comment, as I mention his name in the post you quoted. This shows I wasn't making a stand alone statement, and was addressing something he said.

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 14/01/2015 21:40:28    1683371

Ulsterman
County: Antrim
Posts: 7097

1683354
I wonder what Gary makes of the many South Derry Gaels who aren't too happy to track over the Glenshane Pass to go to county games in Derry City given that Derry City is a soccer place and NOT really a GAA town? Gary would of course agree that the beating heart of the GAA in Derry lies in the south of the county and refurbishing Celtic Park goes against what Derry Gaels wanted?

Ulsterman you are 100% correct in what you say, and I agree 100% with you on this.

1. The sheer majority of Derry Gael's are not from Derry City, and I agree refurbishing Celtic Park would probably not be popular with the majority at support level. I'm not a fan of Celtic Park been the home of Derry GAA.

2. Derry City like Belfast City is simply not a GAA town, and having a large GAA Stadium located here just didn't change that fact as originally hoped. This is partly why I had hoped lessons might be learned before making a similar mistake in Belfast.

3. I would prefer Derry's GAA ground to be in a more accessible location for the Whole County, with Owenbeg an excellent possible location with excellent facilities already in place there. I don't mind driving out to Dungiven for games, it good road and not far from all directions.

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 14/01/2015 21:51:16    1683379

I had read his post as a response to your post so knew what you were replying to so no need to repost his.

Offside_Rule (Antrim) - Posts: 4058 - 14/01/2015 21:57:09    1683383

Offside_Rule
County: Antrim
Posts: 1891

1683363
Yeah see he ignored that point when it was made yesterday.

I liking this, and getting a good laugh out of this.

You boys all thought I would be all out in favour of having Derry GAA HQ Stadium on my own doorstep here in the City.

I'm afraid not, I don't think it's suitable at all. Originally people thought locating Derry's main Stadium here in Derry City, might help the game develop in the City. Sadly that never happened, and the bulk of Derry GAA fans are forced to travel to the extreme West o the County. And none of them avail of the facilities of the City, apart from a pint or two in Mary B's.

As for Donegal, I think Ballybofey was chosen because of the length of the County and the road layout to all parts of Ulster's largest County. It was a logistical descision at the time, in an effort to accomodate all.

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 14/01/2015 22:02:11    1683384

As for Donegal, I think Ballybofey was chosen because of the length of the County and the road layout to all parts of Ulster's largest County. It was a logistical descision at the time, in an effort to accomodate all.

Sensible thinking, now if we could apply that logic to an Ulster stadium. Let me check to see the main roads in Ulster:
M1
M2

Now, it would be great if these two roads met as that would be ideal for getting traffic to and from this stadium. (Checks map) hang on Belfast fits this criteria so they should look there. Oh wait, Casement which they are going with IS in Belfast. Good to see they are smart.

More rope?

Offside_Rule (Antrim) - Posts: 4058 - 15/01/2015 08:14:12    1683385

'Derry City like Belfast City is simply not a GAA town, and having a large GAA Stadium located here just didn't change that fact as originally hoped. This is partly why I had hoped lessons might be learned before making a similar mistake in Belfast'

We really are starting to tease out your real motivation Gary!

There are about 15 clubs in West Belfast, 2 in North Belfast, one in Glengormley (Greater Belfast area) and 2 in South Belfast.

Belfast has produced All Ireland Club Football Champions - St Galls, All Ireland Senior Hurling Club Finalists - Rossa, All Ireland Intermediate Club Hurling Finalists - St Johns, All Ireland Senior Camogie club Champions - Rossa, various All Ireland Handball Champions - Gort na Mona, St Pauls, McDermotts, Rossa.

Now these are all ireland achievements from Belast clubs, the list of Ulster club honours is too extensive to post.

You may need to have a rethink about Belfast not being a GAA City!

But im sure youll point to the number of pubs/clubs that show soccer matches as your way of proving otherwise!

bumpernut (Antrim) - Posts: 1852 - 15/01/2015 10:46:07    1683414

bumpernut you beat me to it - to say Belfast is not a GAA city is ridiculous - there are probably more Gaels in Belfast than in a good number of counties in Ireland.

I actually was surprised myself when I was pulling together the earlier figures to find that there was nearly as many Catholics in greater Belfast as the West of Northern Ireland.

Yes of course this does not include Donegal, Monaghan and Armagh but it does give strong weight to the location in Belfast when you can plant it on the doorstep of so many people and the bonus of being central to the trunk road network.

Also Gary I asked the question about the location of Derrys home ground - not to compare Derry to Belfast as Belfast is much more of a GAA city than Derry but rather to see where your principles stood within your own county so your response was of interest to me but it does not surprise me or annoy me that you agree that the South Derry stronghold should host the games.

Naysayer (Antrim) - Posts: 2071 - 15/01/2015 13:14:39    1683483

Yes of course this does not include Donegal, Monaghan and Armagh - of course this should have read Yes of course this does not include Donegal, Monaghan and Cavan

Naysayer (Antrim) - Posts: 2071 - 15/01/2015 13:49:21    1683499

For the benefit of our Belfast GAA fans - Belfast is not, never was and never will be my Capital.

artisan (Down) - Posts: 1794 - 15/01/2015 16:12:51    1683565