This debate is getting beyond ridiculous with Gary claiming his point of view has won - well because he says so.

Now we have Ulsterman telling us that we are all actually indebted to Belfast because many of us are employed by Belfast!

Great stuff all round.

Naysayer (Antrim) - Posts: 2071 - 11/01/2015 18:46:27    1682278

While people object to the notion of a GAA Stadium in Belfast, as the location fail's to address a long running complaint many have of Clones. Essentially replacing a Stadium in the extreme south of Province, with a Stadium in the Extreme east.The real hypocrisy on here, Is from the Antrim posters who's parochial urges outweigh the needs of the many.

Good God Gary that is a stupid statement. Clones is in the extreme South served by poor road networks. Although on the east, Belfast is the polar opposite with regard travel networks. Therefore your comparison of geographical position equating to travel times is just ridiculous. Suppose though in your head the war is won so why am I surprised really. But do carry on as I'm enjoying the entertainment.

Offside_Rule (Antrim) - Posts: 4058 - 11/01/2015 19:06:10    1682294

Yeah equating accessibility of Belfast to accessibility of Clones is completely ridiculous Offside but this is where we are at with Gary now.

Naysayer (Antrim) - Posts: 2071 - 11/01/2015 19:44:27    1682320

Ever been to Croker for the day Gary? if not, stay away, I would imagine it would be hell on earth for you, far too far east for Leinster

SaffronDon (Antrim) - Posts: 2488 - 11/01/2015 19:59:43    1682334

Naysayer
County: Antrim
Posts: 1074

1682320
Yeah equating accessibility of Belfast to accessibility of Clones is completely ridiculous Offside but this is where we are at with Gary now.


Ah boys, nit picking for anything to take attention away from the absurd "Belfast has airports and the odyssey arena" answer to why Belfast should be the home of Ulster GAA.

And for my statement regarding Clone/Casement been extremes, It takes me roughly the same amount of time to drive to both from my house ( Give or take 5 or 10 mins ).

You can agree among yourselves ( Or "yourself" in a couple of profile cases ), but the fact remains that your combined argument is weak.

At the end of the day, this discussion is about the location of Ulster GAA Provincial Stadium.
The best the Antrim Gaels can up with in favour of Casement is that Belfast has Airports, Shopping, hotels etc. I keep pointing out that few if any Gaelic fans fly to games, stay overnight before or after games, or bother shopping on match days.

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 11/01/2015 20:13:08    1682344

SaffronDon
County: Antrim
Posts: 85

1682334
Ever been to Croker for the day Gary? if not, stay away, I would imagine it would be hell on earth for you, far too far east for Leinster

Sarcasm is anger's ugly cousin, which I suppose is understandable from a Parochial point of view, when lacking a decent argument for putting Ulster's Provincial Stadium in Belfast.

But to answer the question you ask me, I have been a few times over the last few years. It has its own logistical problems, which is why we should learn from this when building a Provincial Stadium.

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 11/01/2015 20:41:27    1682361

Well then Gary do tell us what exactly is essential for Ulster Gaels? What does Clones provide that a new Casement won't? Look at rugby, many fans thought doing away with the old Lansdowne would take away something from rugby when in effect the Aviva has provided them with a brilliant modern stadium with modern facilities. Why should the largest city in the North not have what Dublin, Cork, Limerick etc has or will have? Belfast is the capital my friend and it's sporting facilities should reflect that. Windsor Park and Ravenhill have or are being upgraded without any major arguement from the soccer or rugby fraternity. No this atipathy to Casement and Belfast is solely parochial, jealousy, bitterness and infamous rural GAA begrudgery.

Ulsterman (Antrim) - Posts: 9780 - 11/01/2015 21:49:25    1682389

Ah boys, nit picking for anything to take attention away from the absurd "Belfast has airports and the odyssey arena" answer to why Belfast should be the home of Ulster GAA.

You can agree among yourselves ( Or "yourself" in a couple of profile cases ), but the fact remains that your combined argument is weak.

That is one of the many reasons Gary - not the sole one. If you would bother to read through the posts there are many valid reasons but you just tend to focus on this aspect as it suits your arguement to ignore other reasons.

You keep throwing out these allegations of multi profiles on here but you won't say who. Whats stopping you Gary? Go on, tell us who is who.

Offside_Rule (Antrim) - Posts: 4058 - 12/01/2015 09:16:25    1682411

You can agree among yourselves ( Or "yourself" in a couple of profile cases ),

Right Gary call it out - names?

Naysayer (Antrim) - Posts: 2071 - 12/01/2015 09:20:25    1682413

I do think that Ulsterman is correct here with regards begrudgery. However I would not apply that to Monaghan posters as they are the ones having the big games taken away from them so obviously they would be least in favour. But as for others I would say Ulsterman has it bang on. I wonder would the like of Derry City resident Gary prefer Derry played all their big county games in South Derry instead of Celitc Park given the heartland of Derry GAA is South Derry or does his proximity argument only hold water when it suits.

Naysayer (Antrim) - Posts: 2071 - 12/01/2015 09:24:30    1682416

Ulsterman maybe you should change your name to northernirelandman. Belfast is not my capital, Dublin is and its the same for 2 other counties in ulster and highlights the all too common feeling in the wee six that the other three don't count in the decisions regarding casement.

Tir Conaill Abu (Donegal) - Posts: 1675 - 12/01/2015 10:39:34    1682443

GaryMc82
County: Derry
Posts: 1542

1682040 bumpernut
County: Antrim
Posts: 736

1681866


What about this for a radical idea Gary, why not come up for the weekend and the wife/missus can shop on saturday then leaving you to enjoy the match on the sunday, you can have a pint before and after while enjoying the craic agus ceol that will be on offer in the local pubs and gaa clubs, she can then pick you up and drive you home in an hour or so!

Would that be your suggestion to all Gaelic fans attending every Ulster Championship match in a New Casement Park?
Do you have any Idea what kind of expense your are talking for a family group of 8-10 people travelling in 2 cars?

Consider
- Combined Fuel cost for 2 cars
- 4 x City hotel rooms.
- Saturday night meals for 8 Adults and 2 kids
- Sunday lunch for 8 Adults and 2 kids.
- Parking fee x 2
- Wife, Sister, Mother and Aunt combined Saturday shopping bill !!!!!!!!!!

Any GAA fan who gives consideration to all these small details, will probably sit out most games and pencil in a few in the Calender that they can afford to attend.

A central Stadium would eliminate the need to stay over, and lower average fuel costs. So even if ticket prices were 20% higher, more people would find it affordable to attend.


Well sure im assuming you'll only visit casement for the final, so if Derry make it staying overnight once a year will hardly crucify you financially. Id imagine you would do something similar if Derry were to reach an all ireland final or would you just moan about it too?

As for your bizarre claim of having won the argument, I think you'll find you couldnt be further from the truth in a few months time.
Casement will be the Ulster Council's flagship, it simply aint going anywhere else.
So either open your mind and give it a chance, you might actually manage to enjoy the occasion, or vote with your feet and watch it on tv. You can moan and give off as much as you like but, like MORA, you will not stop this ship sailing.

bumpernut (Antrim) - Posts: 1852 - 12/01/2015 10:42:41    1682445

lol Tir Conaill Abu - fair point - though in defence of Ulsterman I was taking his comment in the context that much has already been said about where this money is coming from and hence geographically where it is going to be spent.

Naysayer (Antrim) - Posts: 2071 - 12/01/2015 11:19:56    1682468

Gary that wasnt sarcasm, I think you've made it very clear that you hate visiting the city and that you're obsessed with a central location for your province. Do you even read half the stuff that you type on here? you should read some of the responses you've had properly, it would save you from writing the same thing again and again, for what 17 pages now..

SaffronDon (Antrim) - Posts: 2488 - 12/01/2015 15:23:59    1682579

Tir Conaill Abu
County: Donegal
Posts: 980

1682443
Ulsterman maybe you should change your name to northernirelandman. Belfast is not my capital, Dublin is and its the same for 2 other counties in ulster and highlights the all too common feeling in the wee six that the other three don't count in the decisions regarding casement.

I generally agree on this point, although not on the wee six bit.

As a person who was born in Derry, and lives and works here, I don't look at Belfast as my capital either. And my argument for basing Ulster GAA Provincial Stadium in a central location, was based upon Ulster GAA been made up of 9 Counties.

We could have a stadium located in a location where the vast majority of fans from all 9 counties could reach the Stadium within an hour roughly. People living in more extreme parts would no longer be travelling for 2 hours or so.

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 12/01/2015 19:14:42    1682650

SaffronDon
County: Antrim
Posts: 88

1682579
Gary that wasnt sarcasm, I think you've made it very clear that you hate visiting the city and that you're obsessed with a central location for your province. Do you even read half the stuff that you type on here? you should read some of the responses you've had properly, it would save you from writing the same thing again and again, for what 17 pages no

Yes it was sarcasm from yourself SaffronDon, maybe you should read your own comment again before making a denial about your sarcasm.

I don't hate Belfast or hate visiting Belfast, I just don't see the logic in putting a GAA Provincial Stadium in Belfast, nor I have I found any sort of solid argument from a GAA point of view.

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 12/01/2015 20:12:07    1682667

Ulsterman
County: Antrim
Posts: 7093

1682389
Windsor Park and Ravenhill have or are being upgraded without any major arguement from the soccer or rugby fraternity. No this atipathy to Casement and Belfast is solely parochial, jealousy, bitterness and infamous rural GAA begrudgery.

Where are you really from Ulsterman?? I only as as I'm a bit shocked by your statement, that I can only assume your not a native of Ulster.

Let's look at the profile of the Northern Ireland soccer fans and Ulster Rugby fans.
1. Both set of fans are almost exclusively Unionist ( Rugby would have a small Nationalist following, N Ireland soccer team probably smaller again )
2. Majority of Northern Ireland's Unionists live in Antrim and Down ( Belfast is on their doorstep ).
3. The larger Unionist community are unlikely to ever argue to have any money spent West of the Bann.

I'm baffled as to how you felt this statement would support the Pro-Casement Park argument.

As for being Parochial, I'm not a poster on here arguing for the Stadium to be located in my own back yard.

As for the GAA begrudgery you speak of is "democracy" within Ulster GAA, which probably feels like begrudgery due to the majority of Ulster Gael's reside outside of Belfast City.

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 12/01/2015 20:36:54    1682683

bumpernut
County: Antrim
Posts: 737

1682445
Well sure im assuming you'll only visit casement for the final, so if Derry make it staying overnight once a year will hardly crucify you financially. Id imagine you would do something similar if Derry were to reach an all ireland final or would you just moan about it too?

As for your bizarre claim of having won the argument, I think you'll find you couldnt be further from the truth in a few months time.
Casement will be the Ulster Council's flagship, it simply aint going anywhere else.
So either open your mind and give it a chance, you might actually manage to enjoy the occasion, or vote with your feet and watch it on tv. You can moan and give off as much as you like but, like MORA, you will not stop this ship sailing.


Oh I don't doubt the Casement Stadium could go ahead, however that clearly won't be because it won an argument on being the most logical location. I'm confident that the GAA never bothered discussing if this Stadium location was best for Ulster GAA, they just seen ££££££ and rubber stamped it without a 2nd thought.

They don't want a debate or discussion on this topic, as this topic thread here on HS has clearly shown the Pro-Casement argument is weak from a Provincial GAA point of view.

Your telling me about staying overnight won't crucify me financially, well I would rather keep that money for 3 potential stays in Dublin in August and hopefully September every year. I don't want to be staying overnight for Provincial Championship games, of which nearly all will likely be held in New Casement for the first few years in an attempt to prove it isn't a white elephant.

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 12/01/2015 21:37:03    1682708

Gary if its sounds sarcastic to you its probably because i cant take you very seriously but it is based on the things you have told us here so deal with that however you want. You say you want a 'GAA point of view', well how about this, the NI Government have approached the GAA and told them they will build them a brand new state of the art stadium in Belfast for next to nothing. Only a fool would do anything but welcome this idea. You think you have points to debate but all you have are complaints that are going to fall on deaf ears in five or six months time. Is that so difficult for you to understand? A debate is only worthwhile if the outcome could go one way or the other and anything you are talking about WILL NOT HAPPEN.

SaffronDon (Antrim) - Posts: 2488 - 13/01/2015 09:19:26    1682725

Let's look at the profile of the Northern Ireland soccer fans and Ulster Rugby fans.
1. Both set of fans are almost exclusively Unionist ( Rugby would have a small Nationalist following, N Ireland soccer team probably smaller again )
2. Majority of Northern Ireland's Unionists live in Antrim and Down ( Belfast is on their doorstep ).
3. The larger Unionist community are unlikely to ever argue to have any money spent West of the Bann.

I'm baffled as to how you felt this statement would support the Pro-Casement Park argument.

As for being Parochial, I'm not a poster on here arguing for the Stadium to be located in my own back yard.

As for the GAA begrudgery you speak of is "democracy" within Ulster GAA, which probably feels like begrudgery due to the majority of Ulster Gael's reside outside of Belfast City.


Right lets be putting some meat on the bones as we often hear this West of the Bann stuff.

Looking at Local Government districts I have split Northern Ireland in two.
Group 1:
Antrim
Ards
Ballymena
Ballymoney
Banbridge
Belfast
Carrickfergus
Castlereagh
Coleraine
Craigavon
Down
Larne
Lisburn
Moyle
Newry and Mourne
Newtownabbey
North Down


Group 2:
Armagh
Cookstown
Derry
Dungannon
Fermanagh
Limavady
Magherafelt
Omagh
Strabane


Group 1: Catholic Population: Just over 500,000
Group 2: Catholic Population: Just over 300,000
Belfast: Catholic Population: Almost 140,000

I think that because Catholics are in the majority in the most of the Westerly Local Government Districts there is a misconception that this is where the majority of Northern Irelands Catholics live.

Likewise I think there is also a misconception that because Antrim are not successful there is not many GAA people residing in the County.

Interesting if you look at Belfast LGD alone there is creeping towards half of the numbers of Catholics that there are in the Group 2 Western LGDs. Note as well that is just Belfast LGD and does not include greater Belfast (Large parts of West Belfast are in Lisburn LGD which if you add to Belfast along with Greater Belfast areas Newtownabbey and Castlereagh you are around approximately 225,000).

So Greater Belfast alone (excluding North Down etc) has approx 225,000 Catholics compared to just over 300,000 in the Western LGDs.

Draw your own conclusions on these FACTS or alternatively stick with perception.

Naysayer (Antrim) - Posts: 2071 - 13/01/2015 09:34:47    1682727