City centre traffic is mad because traffic can't get out of the town !

City Centre traffic is bad because Belfast City Centre Road network was planned with security in mind so that it could be locked down very fast - this has consequences for traffic flow particularly if any sort of incident arises..

This has not been helped by recent big stick approach to get people on to public transport and the crazy bus lanes that sit empty for large parts of the day including rush hour but also do not extend out through every route e.g. over the Lagan Bridges etc.

Naysayer (Antrim) - Posts: 2071 - 09/01/2015 15:21:26    1681825

Everyone should just embrace the idea of West Belfast being the new home of Ulster GAA.

You can come along willingly ot be dragged kicking and screaming but this is where we are all going.

Naysayer (Antrim) - Posts: 2071 - 09/01/2015 15:23:54    1681828

Armagh v Down, Ulster Final 2018 in Casement. Where do 20K cars park if Andytown is closed ? What happens to the M1 ?

Can't answer that beyond pointing to the plans for Casement regarding parking and except to say that it would be an Antrim v Down Final in 2018. What I would say though is how do all these people manage to get to Croke Park on match day and we are talking 2 to 2 1/2 times the attendance with a lot more general traffic than Belfast would ever have. How come we don't have people on giving out stink about having to get to Croke Park when there are streets closed off in and around the stadium, limited designated parking and a few miles of travelling in on single carriageway, having to park up to a couple of miles away and making your way by foot in. As mentioned, Clones is a nightmare to get to but it still wouldn't stop me going there any time we make it to a Final and you look beyond these things because of the occasion - if it took me a further hour or two I would still do it. It makes you wonder though how some people get out of bed in the morning and survive from day to day.

Offside_Rule (Antrim) - Posts: 4058 - 09/01/2015 15:26:12    1681830

The Anti-Casement argument has won and is clearly much stronger, and also has highlighted the amount of thought the GAA put into choosing a location ( None ).

Reviewing the arguments put forth by both the Anti-Casement posters v Antrim posters, It is clear that Casement is not suitable as a Provincial base. Its fine for a Antrim GAA or concert base, but it simply doesn't serve the needs of the greater Ulster GAA fan base.

I don't expect Antrim posters to see the light, for obvious reasons. However now that clear and obvious flaws in the project have been highlighted, I expect we may see a little wider opposition to the project from across the province. The GAA executive have shown contempt for the GAA supporters whom contribute so much, and that should be Investigated or at least reviewed.

The spark has been Ignited...

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 09/01/2015 15:44:44    1681840

Bottom line no matter what is discussed on here is that a Judge has looked at the proposal and said 'little or no consideration' had been given to traffic.

This has to be addressed or no approval will be forthcoming. It shouldn't be an impossible hurdle but ignoring it will not do.

Casement is the most obvious if not only viable HQ given Stormont is funding the build. Spending £70mill, we need to make sure it's done right.

P.s offside, good luck to Antrim in that 2018 final ! Although, it might be closer to 2118 before Down have cause to visit Casement...

artisan (Down) - Posts: 1794 - 09/01/2015 15:46:45    1681842

Ha - in your head maybe it has been won Gary. Lets just see what happens in 5 months time and take it from there.

Offside_Rule (Antrim) - Posts: 4058 - 09/01/2015 15:47:39    1681843

City Centre traffic is bad because Belfast City Centre Road network was planned with security in mind so that it could be locked down very fast - this has consequences for traffic flow particularly if any sort of incident arises..

----

Well they've nailed that one, naysayer. I've seen Belfast traffic locked down in minutes...never because of security mind !

artisan (Down) - Posts: 1794 - 09/01/2015 15:48:56    1681846

Offside_Rule
County: Antrim
Posts: 1880

1681843
Ha - in your head maybe it has been won Gary. Lets just see what happens in 5 months time and take it from there.

Indeed, lets see. I remember a poster from Antrim telling me a year or 2 back that it was going ahead no matter what. Still waiting......

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 09/01/2015 15:53:41    1681849

Out of Interest, who is funding Pairc Ui Chaoimh in Cork?

I'm amazed that with Munster having a few other Stadiums that can cater for 40,000 or more people ( Semple Stadium, Gaelic Grounds, Fitzgerald Stadium ) that Munster got the nod ahead of Ulster for Investment. Considering we don't have a single stadium that holds 40,000 or more.

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 09/01/2015 16:00:29    1681854

Where we sit at the moment and with what information I have it will go ahead and as planned. However, I would not be foolish enough to say that means something else could crop up - this is the North afterall and the only thing certain is that nothing is certain.

Offside_Rule (Antrim) - Posts: 4058 - 09/01/2015 16:01:43    1681856

SF have said the money is safe etc

I wouldn't be too sure. Come elections next year with a possible unionist politician holding the sport portfolio and I'd be fearful if this project hasn't moved substantially further along.

It's not impossible that this falls a part.

artisan (Down) - Posts: 1794 - 09/01/2015 16:04:50    1681857

Yeah Gary and half a dozen naysayers (obviously except the true naysayer!)on this forum will change the whole dynamic.

Where can we get those mushrooms at this time of the year?

bumpernut (Antrim) - Posts: 1852 - 09/01/2015 16:12:33    1681862

That is the thing Artisan, you set up a network so that you can lock it but it always means that it is early locked by other means also. Generally if you can get clear of the city centre and especially on to the motorways you will get moving. The whole purpose of a motorway is to quickly disperse traffic. Even if they do not stretch the length and breadth of the province they still disperse traffic far enough to have it moving relatively freely there on after. For anyone to suggest that having a motorway close to a major stadium is a disadvantage is frankly preposterous.

Naysayer (Antrim) - Posts: 2071 - 09/01/2015 16:14:43    1681863

bumpernut
County: Antrim
Posts: 734

1681801 This nonsense about parking and traffic management are red herrings, you simply dont want it in west belfast due to your prejudices!

Not at all bumpernut, I don't want it in Belfast cos its the wrong location for the "Ulster Provincial Stadium" it most certainly will become.

I argue in favour of Ulster GAA fans and their match day needs. If we are to move from Clones, I suggest rectifying problems experienced for many travelling to Clones. Belfast does not do this at all.

Yourself, Offside_rule and Co argue in favour of Casement been near Airports, Shopping, Rugby events, bars, restaurants, hotels, and Businesses. Most of which are not needed by match day fans, and Sunday opening hours in Belfast are not Ideal for pre or post match shopping in Belfast anyway. Note: Most big Championship matches are on Sundays, not Ideal at all I say.

What about this for a radical idea Gary, why not come up for the weekend and the wife/missus can shop on saturday then leaving you to enjoy the match on the sunday, you can have a pint before and after while enjoying the craic agus ceol that will be on offer in the local pubs and gaa clubs, she can then pick you up and drive you home in an hour or so!

bumpernut (Antrim) - Posts: 1852 - 09/01/2015 16:19:31    1681866

That is the thing Artisan, you set up a network so that you can lock it but it always means that it is early locked by other means also. Generally if you can get clear of the city centre and especially on to the motorways you will get moving. The whole purpose of a motorway is to quickly disperse traffic. Even if they do not stretch the length and breadth of the province they still disperse traffic far enough to have it moving relatively freely there on after. For anyone to suggest that having a motorway close to a major stadium is a disadvantage is frankly preposterous.

Naysayer (Antrim) - Posts: 2071 - 09/01/2015 18:27:55    1681906

bumpernut
County: Antrim
Posts: 736

1681866


What about this for a radical idea Gary, why not come up for the weekend and the wife/missus can shop on saturday then leaving you to enjoy the match on the sunday, you can have a pint before and after while enjoying the craic agus ceol that will be on offer in the local pubs and gaa clubs, she can then pick you up and drive you home in an hour or so!

Would that be your suggestion to all Gaelic fans attending every Ulster Championship match in a New Casement Park?
Do you have any Idea what kind of expense your are talking for a family group of 8-10 people travelling in 2 cars?

Consider
- Combined Fuel cost for 2 cars
- 4 x City hotel rooms.
- Saturday night meals for 8 Adults and 2 kids
- Sunday lunch for 8 Adults and 2 kids.
- Parking fee x 2
- Wife, Sister, Mother and Aunt combined Saturday shopping bill !!!!!!!!!!

Any GAA fan who gives consideration to all these small details, will probably sit out most games and pencil in a few in the Calender that they can afford to attend.

A central Stadium would eliminate the need to stay over, and lower average fuel costs. So even if ticket prices were 20% higher, more people would find it affordable to attend.

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 10/01/2015 17:15:59    1682040

I've made this point before and I will make it now again as there is massive hypocrisy going on here. Many rural GAA folk don't seem to have any problem coming to Belfast to work, shop and go to concerts and shows at the Odyssey, Opera House etc. We never hear anything from them about accessibility, parking or security when they are in Belfast for all of the previous so why now the antipathy towards Casement and Belfast for a major GAA stadium? I'll tell why; there is a massive jealousy and condescending snobbery amongst many Ulster Gaels that Belfast is getting this. Despite Belfast's strong GAA history going back well over 100 years many from Tyrone, Armagh, Down and Derry etc simply don't see Belfast as a GAA 'place' and want it kept rural so they can claim all the GAA glory and attention. They take, take, take from Belfast ALL THE TIME and aren't prepared to give anything back. Well any city people have had enough of this biting the hand that feeds them for long enough. Furthermore the charity match for the late Michaela Harte (RIP) charity was played at Casement with a crowd of 15,000 plus and there weren't any major problems. The fact is that new stadium is going to be built in West Belfast, get used to it or sit on some cold, wet country hillock moaning and yapping for all eternity; like it or lump it. Life will go on and Ulster finals will be played in Casement without you.

Ulsterman (Antrim) - Posts: 9780 - 10/01/2015 20:09:36    1682091

Ulsterman
County: Antrim
Posts: 7091

1682091
I've made this point before and I will make it now again as there is massive hypocrisy going on here. Many rural GAA folk don't seem to have any problem coming to Belfast to work, shop and go to concerts and shows at the Odyssey, Opera House etc. We never hear anything from them about accessibility, parking or security when they are in Belfast for all of the previous so why now the antipathy towards Casement and Belfast for a major GAA stadium?

Travelling for work is something beyond this forum, people travel the world for Jobs ( Not just Belfast ).

Places like the Odyssey or the Opera house etc are frequented by both sides of the community and thus making the location Ideal, as Antrim/Down has a majority Unionist population.

While people object to the notion of a GAA Stadium in Belfast, as the location fail's to address a long running complaint many have of Clones. Essentially replacing a Stadium in the extreme south of Province, with a Stadium in the Extreme east.
The real hypocrisy on here, Is from the Antrim posters who's parochial urges outweigh the needs of the many.


They take, take, take from Belfast ALL THE TIME and aren't prepared to give anything back. Well any city people have had enough of this biting the hand that feeds them for long enough.

Are you Joking? Do you realise how much "Public Cash" has been abused by Politicians in expenses in the Belfast region? Do you realise how many millions have been pumped into so-called "Community" projects?, most of which are widely acknowledged as going straight into the pockets of some very nasty Individuals.

T

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 11/01/2015 16:42:40    1682235

Ulsterman
County: Antrim
Posts: 7091

1682091
I've made this point before and I will make it now again as there is massive hypocrisy going on here. Many rural GAA folk don't seem to have any problem coming to Belfast to work, shop and go to concerts and shows at the Odyssey, Opera House etc. We never hear anything from them about accessibility, parking or security when they are in Belfast for all of the previous so why now the antipathy towards Casement and Belfast for a major GAA stadium?

Travelling for work is something beyond this forum, people travel the world for Jobs ( Not just Belfast ).

Places like the Odyssey or the Opera house etc are frequented by both sides of the community and thus making the location Ideal, as Antrim/Down has a majority Unionist population.

While people object to the notion of a GAA Stadium in Belfast, as the location fail's to address a long running complaint many have of Clones. Essentially replacing a Stadium in the extreme south of Province, with a Stadium in the Extreme east.
The real hypocrisy on here, Is from the Antrim posters who's parochial urges outweigh the needs of the many.


They take, take, take from Belfast ALL THE TIME and aren't prepared to give anything back. Well any city people have had enough of this biting the hand that feeds them for long enough.

Are you Joking? Do you realise how much "Public Cash" has been abused by Politicians in expenses in the Belfast region? Do you realise how many millions have been pumped into so-called "Community" projects?, most of which are widely acknowledged as going straight into the pockets of some very nasty Individuals.

The main purpose of this Stadium is to host all Major Ulster GAA Provincial matches, serving the 9 counties of Ulster. Yet despite this been the main purpose, other uses have been given priority over GAA matters. The Location confirms this

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 11/01/2015 16:44:59    1682236

Ulsterman
County: Antrim
Posts: 7092

1682091 The fact is that new stadium is going to be built in West Belfast, get used to it or sit on some cold, wet country hillock moaning and yapping for all eternity; like it or lump it. Life will go on and Ulster finals will be played in Casement without you.

Regardless of whether the Stadium goes ahead or not, The argument here has shown the whole project to be a farce in both funding terms and also the reason for locating it in Belfast. The Anti-Casement argument won by a mile, simply because shopping, airports, hotels, Opera house and Odyssey/Titanic quarters are not essential to Ulster Gael's on Provincial match days.

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 11/01/2015 16:53:50    1682239