artisan
County: Down
Posts: 1509

Not saying traffic management won't be an issue but if you go for somewhere else you'll have even more issues in terms of traffic, especially a green field site in mid Ulster where the only option for most will be private transportation.

Simply put there are more ways in and out of Belfast than anywhere else in Ulster, as well as better public transport links than anywhere else.

Any problems of traffic that are envisaged in Belfast are magnified at any other choice of location therefore in this debate I think it is a little self defeating to criticise Belfast in this regard.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13777 - 09/01/2015 14:19:12    1681779

Imagine the scenario of a purpose built sports stadium located in a completely residential area of a city which offers its patrons modern facilities, comfortable seating, hot foods and on site bars, park and ride to 2 car-parks; a well operated on site after match taxi rank: all this with no adjacent motorway or rail system: well it seems to work quite well for our rugby patrons:It serves all the patrons and supporters who attend regardless of the distance they have to travel:

KevHill (Antrim) - Posts: 271 - 09/01/2015 14:19:50    1681780

Round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round we go............

Advantages, Disadvantages, what is good for the GAA man, what is not good for the GAA man, what we really need, what we do not need, vanity, parochial, bad management, sense, no sense etc etc.

All does not matter one iota - Casement is the only show in town - you can blow off until you are blue in the face but this is what we are faced with.

I actually think from this debate that none of us are able to fully predict the costs, needs, consequences etc and instead run of ideology or what we see as desirable/sensible but have not been able to quantify the thing with real costs.

But anyway time for everyone to move on and embrace West Belfast as the new home if Ulster GAA.

Naysayer (Antrim) - Posts: 2071 - 09/01/2015 14:20:10    1681781

Artisan - good job Casement is well clear of Belfast City Centre then with all those traffic jams.

Naysayer (Antrim) - Posts: 2071 - 09/01/2015 14:26:27    1681783

MesAmis
County: Dublin
Posts: 8136

1681775
How many hundreds of roads are you gonna have to build to connect into this Green field site Gary?

If all the roads into Belfast aren't enough for access to Casement you'll have a lot of building to do at a green field sight in mid Ulster, will also mean private transport is the only real way of getting to and from the game.

While Belfast is connected to Dublin and has motorways leading to/from it. These motorways don't go far from Belfast, and to be honest the road network/Parking in and around Casement is not great, despite its close proximity to a motorway.

I mentioned the A5 carriageway as a possible benefit, however I also stated that I chose that general location as it would still significantly reduce travel times to all counties regardless of whether or not the A5 goes ahead.

So to directly answer your question, No roads need to be built to connect this Green field or Healy Park site.

NOTE: However there land has already been purchased, and some work already begun on preparing for an A5 dual carriageway ( Derry - Monaghan ) which will link to the N2 ( Dublin to Monaghan ).

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 09/01/2015 14:33:09    1681787

for the benefit of the cynics https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMcQKz3H0yY

KevHill (Antrim) - Posts: 271 - 09/01/2015 14:37:25    1681790

Naysayer
County: Antrim
Posts: 1068

1681783
Artisan - good job Casement is well clear of Belfast City Centre then with all those traffic jams.

------

Planning a 40 K stadium on the doorstep of the Westlink/M1 with no parking is simply stupid.

artisan (Down) - Posts: 1794 - 09/01/2015 14:37:44    1681791

Artisan - as pointed out above, the articles which you are referring to are City Centre traffic congestion and Casement is not in the City Centre.

Gary - how can you say there would be no road upgrades needed for a green field site or Healy Park - Healy park is off a B road. As mentioned previously, I regulary travel from home to Mayo and go via Magherafelt, Cookstown, Omagh etc and trust me, on a good day you have still a lot of traffic and at a busy time you can be quite a while getting from the Cookstown end of Omagh to the Dromore/Eniskillen side - and thats going round the town. Add match day traffic in to this and you have Clones Mark II. You can't just plonk a major stadium in such a place and expect the existing networks to be able to cope. And to upgrade to the required levels will cost millions.

Offside_Rule (Antrim) - Posts: 4058 - 09/01/2015 14:40:26    1681792

GaryMc82
County: Derry
Posts: 1523

1681787

Healy Park is a fine little ground but to pretend the traffic would be any better coming in and out of Omagh rather than Belfast is strange.

Same goes for green field sites. The traffic would be very bad added to the fact that less patrons would use public transport unlike Belfast.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13777 - 09/01/2015 14:45:00    1681793

MesAmis
County: Dublin
Posts: 8137

1681779

artisan
County: Down
Posts: 1509

Not saying traffic management won't be an issue but if you go for somewhere else you'll have even more issues in terms of traffic, especially a green field site in mid Ulster where the only option for most will be private transportation.

Simply put there are more ways in and out of Belfast than anywhere else in Ulster, as well as better public transport links than anywhere else.

Any problems of traffic that are envisaged in Belfast are magnified at any other choice of location therefore in this debate I think it is a little self defeating to criticise Belfast in this regard.

The main problem with Belfast as a location for a Ulster "Provincial" Stadium, Is that it suits everybody from the British Government, Music promoters, Rugby WC bids, and Belfast's shopping district, Belfast International visitors more than the "wider Ulster GAA supporters" who will be forced to use it and to whom the dam things is supposed to be for.

Of course we have naturally seen a strong support from Co Antrim/Down posters for the project, but not from the rest of Ulster. Belfast does not have motorways to all 9 counties in Ulster, which is why a more central location is more logistically sound.

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 09/01/2015 14:45:08    1681794

City centre traffic is mad because traffic can't get out of the town !

artisan (Down) - Posts: 1794 - 09/01/2015 14:46:52    1681797

There are plenty of parking facilities around casement park, boucher road council pitches, westwood centre and kennedy centre will all be available for parking.There will also be underground parking for around 300 cars in casement. Then we have the option of parking on kennedy way, andersonstown road and shaws road. All these parking spaces are less than a mile from the ground.

There are also at least 4/5 different routes into it as well, from the M1, from the city centre, from the black mountain via hannahstown, stockmans lane via shaws bridge and stewartstown road via dunmurry/derriaghy.

This nonsense about parking and traffic management are red herrings, you simply dont want it in west belfast due to your prejudices!

bumpernut (Antrim) - Posts: 1852 - 09/01/2015 14:51:49    1681801

Offside_Rule
County: Antrim
Posts: 1876

1681792
Artisan - as pointed out above, the articles which you are referring to are City Centre traffic congestion and Casement is not in the City Centre.

Gary - how can you say there would be no road upgrades needed for a green field site or Healy Park - Healy park is off a B road. As mentioned previously, I regulary travel from home to Mayo and go via Magherafelt, Cookstown, Omagh etc and trust me, on a good day you have still a lot of traffic and at a busy time you can be quite a while getting from the Cookstown end of Omagh to the Dromore/Eniskillen side - and thats going round the town. Add match day traffic in to this and you have Clones Mark II. You can't just plonk a major stadium in such a place and expect the existing networks to be able to cope. And to upgrade to the required levels will cost millions.

We already host 33,000 capacity Ulster final's in Clones, which while congested, is no worst than many of Ulster's other Stadiums. Clones shows that anywhere can manage without upgrades,

A Green field site south of Omagh, would ensure nobody from Belfast, Down, Armagh, Monaghan, Cavan, Fermanagh or South Donegal would be going through Omagh town, and would have a clear run to Ballygawley and thus to excellent roads in all directions.

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 09/01/2015 14:52:25    1681802

City centre traffic is mad because traffic can't get out of the town !

Is it not more to do with the fact that they have reduced lanes within the City Centre and made some bus only and made others one way? When the traffic eventually gets to the M1 it tends to move on (unless there is an accident).

Offside_Rule (Antrim) - Posts: 4058 - 09/01/2015 14:55:32    1681803

MesAmis
County: Dublin
Posts: 8139

1681793
GaryMc82
County: Derry
Posts: 1523

1681787

Healy Park is a fine little ground but to pretend the traffic would be any better coming in and out of Omagh rather than Belfast is strange.

Same goes for green field sites. The traffic would be very bad added to the fact that less patrons would use public transport unlike Belfast.

Well it isn't actually strange, if you travel to and from Belfast and realize that apart from the Dublin-Belfast motorway which does little for most of Ulster's GAA fans, Belfast doesn't have great road Infrastructure going to West Ulster.

Also consider that Belfast does not have excellent public transport going to Monaghan, Cavan, Fermanagh, West Tyrone, Donegal or even Derry City. Once you exit south Omagh, you have a clear run to Ballygawley which branches off to all other counties.
It's quite a good location, from an Ulster Provincial point of view.

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 09/01/2015 14:58:00    1681806

Yes offside, it tends to move on the M1. An average of about 10mph on a good day until at least 3 mile off sprucefield.

As I've said, match days aren't comparable to rush hour, though, it will effect Casement in terms of conferences and concerts.

Armagh v Down, Ulster Final 2018 in Casement. Where do 20K cars park if Andytown is closed ? What happens to the M1 ?

artisan (Down) - Posts: 1794 - 09/01/2015 15:05:19    1681812

Gary - Clones is an absolute nightmare to get to on match day. Heading from North Antrim down is an all day event, leaving early in the morning to be sure that you will be parked up and in the grounds for a 3pm or 3:30pm throw-in. Yes people manage because they have no option but to manage but I guarantee you if you ask most people who travel to Clones to give one downfall they will all say the journey to a person.

Back on Omagh - I am not talking about going through the town as I don't even attempt to do that on my journey - I am talking about going round the town and am talking about travelling at weekends too when you would say the traffic would be lighter. If what I encounter is Omagh on a good day I wouldn't really want to see it on a day when you have 38,000 people trying to get to Healy Park on top of the normal weekend traffic.

Offside_Rule (Antrim) - Posts: 4058 - 09/01/2015 15:07:00    1681813

bumpernut
County: Antrim
Posts: 734

1681801 This nonsense about parking and traffic management are red herrings, you simply dont want it in west belfast due to your prejudices!

Not at all bumpernut, I don't want it in Belfast cos its the wrong location for the "Ulster Provincial Stadium" it most certainly will become.

I argue in favour of Ulster GAA fans and their match day needs. If we are to move from Clones, I suggest rectifying problems experienced for many travelling to Clones. Belfast does not do this at all.

Yourself, Offside_rule and Co argue in favour of Casement been near Airports, Shopping, Rugby events, bars, restaurants, hotels, and Businesses. Most of which are not needed by match day fans, and Sunday opening hours in Belfast are not Ideal for pre or post match shopping in Belfast anyway. Note: Most big Championship matches are on Sundays, not Ideal at all I say.

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 09/01/2015 15:12:17    1681816

KevHill
County: Antrim
Posts: 269

1681780
Imagine the scenario of a purpose built sports stadium located in a completely residential area of a city which offers its patrons modern facilities, comfortable seating, hot foods and on site bars, park and ride to 2 car-parks; a well operated on site after match taxi rank: all this with no adjacent motorway or rail system: well it seems to work quite well for our rugby patrons:It serves all the patrons and supporters who attend regardless of the distance they have to travel:


----

2 differences between Ravenhill and the proposed Casement is that Andytown will be closed match days - you can get parked easily on the streets around Ravenhill, leaving yourself a 5 min walk to stadium.

Secondly, Ravenhill is half capacity of Casement.

artisan (Down) - Posts: 1794 - 09/01/2015 15:14:31    1681821

Offside_Rule
County: Antrim
Posts: 1878

1681813
Gary - Clones is an absolute nightmare to get to on match day. Heading from North Antrim down is an all day event, leaving early in the morning to be sure that you will be parked up and in the grounds for a 3pm or 3:30pm throw-in. Yes people manage because they have no option but to manage but I guarantee you if you ask most people who travel to Clones to give one downfall they will all say the journey to a person.

Back on Omagh - I am not talking about going through the town as I don't even attempt to do that on my journey - I am talking about going round the town and am talking about travelling at weekends too when you would say the traffic would be lighter. If what I encounter is Omagh on a good day I wouldn't really want to see it on a day when you have 38,000 people trying to get to Healy Park on top of the normal weekend traffic.

Well I suggested Healy park as an additional option, if for some reason the Green field was unsuitable. I have sat in long traffic jams coming from Croke Park, Breffni park, Healy Park, Clones in recent years, and failed to distinguish which was the best for releasing post match traffic. I head back through Fintona and Fivemiletown to Omagh from Clones, and actually generally find it better to get out of than most grounds. Granted I used a secondary road or lane....

I don't doubt your travel pain from North Antrim, I simply don't want to see this type of needless travel continue in the future from so many area's. It really makes a laugh of the GAA, Showing them to be money hungry Idiots who can be bought at will.

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 09/01/2015 15:20:33    1681823