19/12/2013 17:17:56 JayP
To put this in context lads, if you cant hurl by the time you are 16, you COULD pick it up....but not be a county hurler or even a senior club player.
You could begin playing Gaelic football at 16, if you were playing soccer, you might even be decent at it. Might even make senior standard for your club.
Rugby - John Hayes - Enough said, anybody could play rugby, and if you can do a jinky turn you are Brian O'Driscoll!!!
To play any of the above sports and then expect to make it as a top Junior Soccer Player, represent your league even as an adult...nevermind be a top player and play League of Ireland or go to England to play......you would be a freak of nature unless you started as a young kid.
Rugby/Gaelic Football Players/Hurlers cannot make it at soccer without playing fully underage from Childhood. Yeah you could play indoor soccer and play Saturday soccer.....but you would never be of a high enough standard.
So in terms of Skill, and Ive been playing both soccer and gaelic football my whole life, I would have to say soccer and hurling would be the top two. I would put soccer slightly on top as you do EVERYTHING with your hands from childhood so hand eye coordination is far more developed than footeye coordination unless you really practice it.
I know people will disagree, but that's life! Physical attributes of people play a role in that. Considerable number of people not even fully grown by time their 18 so that plays a role in rugby where physicality plays more of a role
You are very ignorant of what John Hayes did on pitch. His physical attributes and abilities on pitch helped him to be reputedly up with the top 2/3 players paid in the country and there is a reason why tight head props are up with the highest paid positions on the pitch.
19/12/2013 17:22:13
juniorbsub
Ormond, Ive watched many a rugger game and Ive never seen a prop forward drop a goal from outside the 22! Well plenty have and are capable. And just because they don't doesn't mean theyre not capable. Just in a game you would more likely give ball to player like o/h or centre who are going to be better kickers(more than likely)
Zinzan brooke, Anthony foley all backrows renowned for kicking goals etc and props like matt dunning famed for scoring a drop goal.

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 19/12/2013 17:54:01    1525408

Yep juniorsub very rare to see a prop score a dropgoal in rugby , about as rare as seeing a fullback get a goal in gaelic

bad.monkey (USA) - Posts: 4655 - 19/12/2013 17:58:56    1525411

bad.monkey
County: USA
Posts: 3654

1525375 Tell the truth bold monkey ye never played Gaa before but would like too :)

I'll tell you AthCliath either some of the lads here were the worst footballers in the parish or I was some naturally gifted player! Hopping the ball while running - a great skill apparently!!...would you get away out of it!!

haha I knew it, your thinking of basketball ;)

AthCliath (Dublin) - Posts: 4347 - 19/12/2013 18:01:10    1525413

bad.monkey
County: USA
Posts: 3654

Yeah.. but still...

A ball is a very hard thing to kick right

There's no doubt that Rugby has plenty of skill

But as I have pointed out Footballers require greater level of skills... several in fact just to maintain possession without giving a free... never mind the massive skills in taking a score or giving a pass under pressure

Kicking with both feet is also something that some professional soccer players cant even pull off

Look at the current Dublin team... a massive advantage our forwards have is that they are dual footed

That's very skillful indeed.

You don't see many kickers in rugby taking scores off either foot... and again if you are worth your salt as a footballer this is a must have at the top level. It makes all the difference...it's the reason why Bernard has such a high scoring average

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20763 - 19/12/2013 18:06:41    1525415

19/12/2013 18:06:41
jimbodub
County: Dublin
Posts: 11587

1525415 bad.monkey
County: USA
Posts: 3654

Yeah.. but still...

A ball is a very hard thing to kick right

There's no doubt that Rugby has plenty of skill

But as I have pointed out Footballers require greater level of skills... several in fact just to maintain possession without giving a free... never mind the massive skills in taking a score or giving a pass under pressure

Kicking with both feet is also something that some professional soccer players cant even pull off

Look at the current Dublin team... a massive advantage our forwards have is that they are dual footed

That's very skillful indeed.

You don't see many kickers in rugby taking scores off either foot... and again if you are worth your salt as a footballer this is a must have at the top level. It makes all the difference...it's the reason why Bernard has such a high scoring average
Place kicks no. Why would you use weaker foot unless you really really had to?
Always see kickers using both feet for kicking in open play and often scoring dg's with their supposed weaker foot

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 19/12/2013 18:21:09    1525419

If any gaelic player 'worth his salt' can kick off both feet then why is it a massive advantage for the Dublin forwards that they can kick off both feet??? Seems to suggest that most top level Gaelic dont kick off both feet or else it wouldn't be 'a massive advantage'... We both know the truth that the two footed players are quite rare

But now you mention it every rugby player has to pass off both his left and right hand side, another great skill. Glad you raised it Jimbo :)

bad.monkey (USA) - Posts: 4655 - 19/12/2013 18:46:00    1525432

Yeah but it's easier to throw a ball

Hence a reason behind it being against the rules in Football

Imagine just throwing it to each other....

That's true BM

Not all Gaa players can kick off both feet

It's because it's so hard to master
The skill levels involved is massive... you see...
Just another example at the many ways in which football is skilllful
Something again that puts it ahead of rugby in terms of technical ability
Rugby is a great game no doubt

But Im dissapointed that you appear to be so disregarding at the skill levels of someone like Bernard B or Colm C

They at times can make it look easy... but what they can do with a ball is wonderful

I think many a Irish rugby player who took part in GAA would agree with your rather ignorant stance

I know you're a bit of a hurling man...

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20763 - 19/12/2013 20:27:05    1525453

At the end of the day...

Sure who cares

GAA ain't going anywhere in Dublin

Just like Leinster Rugby... Although the same can't be said about it's players ;)

Fingers crossed for the Heino cup sticking around

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20763 - 19/12/2013 20:34:39    1525457

Ormond
Well all players aspiring to be pros have to be able to kick and that includes props tight 5 etc. Most can kick but generally in games don't as they are the tight 5 and are in at breakdown
Ormond I know you see it as your role to defend rugby from perceived attacks on this forum but that statement there is fairly daft and makes it hard to take you seriously. If being able to kick is important how many hours a week practicing this would a guy like Rory Best or Devin Toner spend practicing it? We both know that they simply dont practice kicking at all, why would they as that is not their role in the team, so to say it is something they have to be able to do is just silly. This is why there is great controversy whenever a rugby game is settled by a drop-goal shootout, as players who never practice kicking are forced to do something completely alien to them to try and win a game.
And bad.monkey Zinzan Brooke took up gaelic football while he was playing rugby so he could improve his kicking and catching, and it is largely because he played gaelic that he was one of the few forwards in the game who was a successful kicker. This gives you a good idea of which sport he considered required more skill. And while he might have played for the Australian all-stars that is a very glamorous name for a poor standard of football, when he was in London he played junior football and was considered decent but struggled with soloing, it is a long way off the top level I am afraid.

Soma (UK) - Posts: 2630 - 20/12/2013 09:59:33    1525512

Dubs jersey selling out every few days. I think that answers the initial question ....

hurlingdub (Dublin) - Posts: 6978 - 20/12/2013 10:08:53    1525517

hurlingdub
County: Dublin
Posts: 5581

1525517
Dubs jersey selling out every few days. I think that answers the initial question ....

_______

:)

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20763 - 20/12/2013 10:31:16    1525521

Ormond
Well all players aspiring to be pros have to be able to kick and that includes props tight 5 etc. Most can kick but generally in games don't as they are the tight 5 and are in at breakdown
20/12/2013 09:59:33 Soma
Ormond I know you see it as your role to defend rugby from perceived attacks on this forum but that statement there is fairly daft and makes it hard to take you seriously. If being able to kick is important how many hours a week practicing this would a guy like Rory Best or Devin Toner spend practicing it? We both know that they simply dont practice kicking at all, why would they as that is not their role in the team, so to say it is something they have to be able to do is just silly. This is why there is great controversy whenever a rugby game is settled by a drop-goal shootout, as players who never practice kicking are forced to do something completely alien to them to try and win a game.
And bad.monkey Zinzan Brooke took up gaelic football while he was playing rugby so he could improve his kicking and catching, and it is largely because he played gaelic that he was one of the few forwards in the game who was a successful kicker. This gives you a good idea of which sport he considered required more skill. And while he might have played for the Australian all-stars that is a very glamorous name for a poor standard of football, when he was in London he played junior football and was considered decent but struggled with soloing, it is a long way off the top level I am afraid. Previous post neither daft nor makes me look less serious.
"perceived attacks" untrue. "Attacks" true.
Too often has there been threads from people who otherwise never comment on rugby attacking rugby eg jimbodub etc
Most forwards practice kicking every day. You see them at training doing kicking in drills, mini games.
All players have to kick and it isn't just designated for certain players. Players in backs more likely to kick but forwards do kick and practice it.

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 22/12/2013 18:06:43    1526043

Ormond I was at a rugby game friday (it was high in physicality but low in skills im afraid, but it is a sport played in winter afterall) and mentioned your post to some ex-forwards I was there with, it gave us all the best laugh we have had in a while thinking how a rugby coach would tell someone like Adam Rhys Jones he was getting dropped for Tom Court because Courts kicking skills would be more important against the opposition! So daft I can only presume you are trolling? Rugby players practice skills about twice a week yet you believe forwards practice a skill most never use every day?!

Jimbodubs 'attack' on rugby included saying he thinks its a great game but with less skill required than other sports, if you see that as an attack then you are a very sensitive man! Does that mean bad.monkey has been attacking football as well? I am also curious why you use Zinzan Brooke as an example of a kicking forward when you are fully aware he took up football to improve these skills, as id suggest this example does little for the point you are trying to make?

With the recent reports regarding the IRBs lack of concern for player welfare, especially around concussion, and the IRFUs poor response following a tragic incident in a schoolboy game in Belfast, perhaps time would be better spent protecting the game you love in this regard rather than making up stories about thousands of new zealanders playing abroad professionally and forwards practicing kicking?

Soma (UK) - Posts: 2630 - 23/12/2013 10:51:58    1526141

bad.monkey
County: USA
Posts: 3656

'as rare as seeing full-backs scoring a goal in Gaelic'

Did you see the goal Wicklow (not 100% sure it was them) got in the first round of championship this year? 70m out their full back puts in the back of the net. Granted the keeper was 10m of his line and he was trying to pass it to the full-forward who missed the ball which then bounced over the keeper's head but a goals a goal.

RebelCork (Cork) - Posts: 789 - 23/12/2013 12:24:46    1526170

23/12/2013 10:51:58 Soma
Ormond I was at a rugby game friday (it was high in physicality but low in skills im afraid, but it is a sport played in winter afterall) and mentioned your post to some ex-forwards I was there with, it gave us all the best laugh we have had in a while thinking how a rugby coach would tell someone like Adam Rhys Jones he was getting dropped for Tom Court because Courts kicking skills would be more important against the opposition! So daft I can only presume you are trolling? Rugby players practice skills about twice a week yet you believe forwards practice a skill most never use every day?!
Jimbodubs 'attack' on rugby included saying he thinks its a great game but with less skill required than other sports, if you see that as an attack then you are a very sensitive man! Does that mean bad.monkey has been attacking football as well? I am also curious why you use Zinzan Brooke as an example of a kicking forward when you are fully aware he took up football to improve these skills, as id suggest this example does little for the point you are trying to make?
With the recent reports regarding the IRBs lack of concern for player welfare, especially around concussion, and the IRFUs poor response following a tragic incident in a schoolboy game in Belfast, perhaps time would be better spent protecting the game you love in this regard rather than making up stories about thousands of new zealanders playing abroad professionally and forwards practicing kicking?
No you are talking foolishly. You say rugby players only practice skills twice a week now that is a load of bollox and trolling. They are passing, kicking, running switches/overs and unders etc every single day.
A prop will not be dropped because of another's kicking skills but it will happen for all but the front 5. Kicking important for all wearing 6-15.
IRBs lack on concern for player welfare... not really. There has been some issues with the concussion bin but at least IRB are proactive in looking at changes unlike many sporting organisations
Incident with the poor youngster in Belfast cannot be used as a go at rugby. Tragic accident that occurred. Non medical people on sideline missed the poor lad already was concussed and didn't take him off.
Not making up stories about new Zealanders abroad. There is thousands across GB& Ire, US, Canada, Japan, Middle east etc across all grades of rugby from pro to senior to junior 1/2/3 etc

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 23/12/2013 12:59:55    1526181

Ormondbannerman

'Kicking important for all wearing 6-15'

I doubt even you believe that.

RebelCork (Cork) - Posts: 789 - 23/12/2013 13:07:56    1526182

23/12/2013 13:07:56
RebelCork
I doubt even you believe that. That's the back row and all backs ie 6-15. Completely true.

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 23/12/2013 13:24:25    1526186

I know what they are. It's true from 9-15 at a push. The like's of POM, Sean O'Brien, Heaslip etc. wouldn't be able to kick 20 meters accurately at all.

RebelCork (Cork) - Posts: 789 - 23/12/2013 13:36:19    1526190

Cant recall ever seeing POM , Sean OBrien or Heaslip kick a ball for province or country

bad.monkey (USA) - Posts: 4655 - 23/12/2013 13:47:59    1526193

23/12/2013 13:36:19
RebelCork
I know what they are. It's true from 9-15 at a push. The like's of POM, Sean O'Brien, Heaslip etc. wouldn't be able to kick 20 meters accurately at all. O Mahony has played on the wing at club level and is a decent footballer.
Wouldn't be able to kick 20 metres accurately. By accurately what do you mean?
They, when kicking would be putting in clearance kicks and possibly if adventurous maybe putting in a chip going near tryline(more in case of O Mahony, Heaslip than SOB.)
23/12/2013 13:47:59
bad.monkey
Cant recall ever seeing POM , Sean OBrien or Heaslip kick a ball for province or country Seen it plenty of times. Obv never a place kick and would only be a very few amount of times so wouldn't be hugely remembered

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 23/12/2013 14:33:39    1526207