The terms like 'working class' have no meaning in Ireland, they are only relevant in places like England which has a royalty and aristocracy which are the 'non working' class. No relevance to Ireland , just a consequence of the anglicisation of the Irish people that they use these terms.
In Dublin, sadly Man Utd or Liverpool would be the best supported teams or biggest 'franchise' . Then Dublin footballers, then Leinster rugby. Im surprised people here have such a dislike of rugby people, at least they support their own, you won't find an Irish rugby fan supporting English or Scottish teams.

bad.monkey (USA) - Posts: 4655 - 16/12/2013 20:02:06    1524384

bad.monkey
County: USA
Posts: 3634

1524384


The terms like 'working class' have no meaning in Ireland, they are only relevant in places like England which has a royalty and aristocracy which are the 'non working' class. No relevance to Ireland , just a consequence of the anglicisation of the Irish people that they use these terms.
In Dublin, sadly Man Utd or Liverpool would be the best supported teams or biggest 'franchise' . Then Dublin footballers, then Leinster rugby. Im surprised people here have such a dislike of rugby people, at least they support their own, you won't find an Irish rugby fan supporting English or Scottish teams.

They have as much meaning if you can justify a set of criteria that can reasonably define a social class. I'm not saying i can do it but others have done so successfully, albeit not without critique. If those social classes serve to be linked to taste and choice in relation to sport then class is an important variable. If social stratification exists in England, then it certainly exists in Ireland where societal make-up and how the economy is organized is quite similar. The royalty/aristocracy in England represent a fragment of that countries population and how social class could not be applied to such a group of people for that reason is not logical and makes no sense! I could understand an argument that might state the old notions of lower/middle/upper class may have become eroded but few students of society would claim they have left the stage completely.

It hard to answer this question as most people to whom this applies to probably move between 'franchises' on a seasonal basis. Those of us who follow either solely are probably in the minority. But you then must define how one becomes associated to a franchise!

Is it by who they say they support more? How many times they actually attend given games for different 'franchises'? Whose jersey they buy etc etc etc. In the summer the Dubs probably rule the roost, at other stages other sports do better. Collectively, i would think the GAA is the biggest sporting organisation in Dublin in terms of participation.

seany16 (Dublin) - Posts: 1663 - 16/12/2013 20:55:17    1524397

It is great to see the growth of the GAA in the capital city. The success of Dublin ensures more media attention and provides a platform for the GAA. The Dublin senior footballers are the biggest show in town.
Prior to 1960 none of the six counties north of the border had won the Sam Maguire cup. Presently four of these six counties have won the All-Ireland football title.
It is also heartening to see the growth in clubs overseas with many non Irish participating.
The GAA is the biggest and most successful sporting organisation in the country. The GAA is embedded in the community, hence its strength. The GAA attracts huge attendances to its games. The GAA had attendances in excess of 82,000 people on four occassions this year and big crowds at championship matches throughout the year. In addition numerous club games are played throughout the country Sunday after Sunday, many of which attracts excellent attendances, no other association can match this appeal. Neither can any other association compete with its network of stadia and pitches throughout the country.
Tá Cumann Lúthcleas Gael ag dul ó neart go neart.

fainleog (Limerick) - Posts: 602 - 16/12/2013 21:01:21    1524398

I think you misunderstood my post Seany, without a 'non working' class like there is in England, the term working class has no meaning in Ireland. The only people in Ireland who arent working would be those from areas termed 'working class' ! . Youre probably right that you could divide on other socio-economic lines but thankfully sport tends to transcend these boundaries anyway. Traditionally soccer and boxing would be the 'working class' sports, GAA very much a middle class sport and rugby upper class. But people play what they like these days thankfully.
Leinster are growing hugely in Dublin and around the rest of the province, rugby has a big advantage over soccer and GAA in that they have Irish teams competing in the elite European completions and are amongst the top clubs in Europe unlike soccer and they also have the International matches which the GAA does not have. In fifty years rugby could well have overtaken the GAA

bad.monkey (USA) - Posts: 4655 - 16/12/2013 21:28:16    1524409

You're really overreacting the importance of the heinekin cup in Ireland. I couldn't even tell you who was in the final last year and i'd say 80 percent of the people living around me wouldn't either and outside of Munster i usually don't even know if an Irish team are playing until i see the result. Youth rugby in Cork is pretty unaccesible anyway and the good rural players usually get snapped up by private schools in the city.

RebelCork (Cork) - Posts: 789 - 16/12/2013 21:47:22    1524417

bad monkey

well people in ireland class it by how much the houses cost in an area lets be honest.
the areas on the northside where rugby clubs are is clontarf,malahide and sutton.
all three of them areas would be only affordable to people with very high incomes.
therefore you would class them upper or higher class.

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 16/12/2013 21:51:22    1524420

RebelCork
County: Cork
Posts: 226

1524417
You're really overreacting the importance of the heinekin cup in Ireland. I couldn't even tell you who was in the final last year and i'd say 80 percent of the people living around me wouldn't either and outside of Munster i usually don't even know if an Irish team are playing until i see the result. Youth rugby in Cork is pretty unaccesible anyway and the good rural players usually get snapped up by private schools in the city.

you see its not actualy improving much at all rugby.
its more to do with the massive media coverage it recieves which leads people to believe the game is growing in certain areas.
If it was growing in any of the areas across northside of dublin for example wouldnt there be rugby pitches being made in public parks

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 16/12/2013 21:54:40    1524422

I remember the huge crowds on the streets of Limerick just to watch the Heineken Cup final on big screens. I have been to Heineken Cup games in Limerick and it certainly is a big deal. Don't know much about Cork , surprised it is not popular there considering the players they produce

bad.monkey (USA) - Posts: 4655 - 16/12/2013 21:56:30    1524423

If we're talking about Irish franchises supported in Dublin then I would say that based on hardcore fan base the order would be....

Dublin maybe 12000
Leinster about 8000 from Dublin
Shamrock Rovers about 3500
Bohemian FC about 1500

The Leinster bug is beginning to infiltrate what would have been non-rugby working class areas. The white away jersey goes great with a pair of Penneys grey cotton tracksuit bottoms. Rumours of Ross O'Carroll Kelly books flying off the shelves (purchased) in Clearwater shopping centre Finglas have been greatly exaggerated however.

Similarly, thanks to Dublin's inter county success, the sacred sky blue gansai has been spotted on the back of many a toff in areas like Foxrock and Ballsbridge over the past couple of years. I call this Paul Griffin syndrome.

Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4748 - 16/12/2013 22:01:01    1524427

bad.monkey
County: USA
Posts: 3635

1524409
I think you misunderstood my post Seany, without a 'non working' class like there is in England, the term working class has no meaning in Ireland. The only people in Ireland who arent working would be those from areas termed 'working class' ! . Youre probably right that you could divide on other socio-economic lines but thankfully sport tends to transcend these boundaries anyway. Traditionally soccer and boxing would be the 'working class' sports, GAA very much a middle class sport and rugby upper class. But people play what they like these days thankfully.
Leinster are growing hugely in Dublin and around the rest of the province, rugby has a big advantage over soccer and GAA in that they have Irish teams competing in the elite European completions and are amongst the top clubs in Europe unlike soccer and they also have the International matches which the GAA does not have. In fifty years rugby could well have overtaken the GAA.

If you take the literal meaning of the word 'working' then fair enough i see your point and the possible confusion. The term' working class' as its implied sociologically is not the literal meaning most take it as here. Perhaps lower/middle/upper is more appropriate once the terms are defined.

Its hard to quantify the impact of the rise of rugby on the back of Irish provincial success or where exactly it will go! The GAA has held its own going through a tough recession and if the economy recovers to any respectable level surplus numbers will return when disposable income is more readily available i would think.

For the record, just like music, theatre and art etc, i do think there is an element of class influencing choice in Dublin regarding sport but many acknowledge that the GAA has become attractive to more middle class earners whilst rugby can be no longer seen as the elitist game it once was. Perhaps some old bastions do remain though. Those wealthy families that were tied to Rugby and particular areas probably are still tied to it, and they are culturally reproduced to do so. The terms rugby/soccer/GAA families do have substance! But for the majority of supporters, as you say rightly, are mobile and are thankfully free to choose!

seany16 (Dublin) - Posts: 1663 - 16/12/2013 22:04:12    1524429

16/12/2013 12:30:51
MesAmis
Ormo, Because you disagree doesn't mean I am trolling. I was merely questioning the amount of work being done. I don't think it comes anywhere near the level of work being done by the GAA or by soccer clubs in schools.
If you don't want to continue to be called Ormo etc then it is entirely up to you. Something you've somehow yet to figure out. I said you are trolling with regard to calling me ormo. It is up to others to change as I cant change people calling me ormo.
16/12/2013 13:17:56 if_in_doubt
I'd be very surprised if the majority of the Leinster academy and underage teams aren't made up of kids coming out of the traditional private rugby schools for the foreseeable future. In Leinster, Leinster rugby is probably the biggest brand, in Dublin though it's probably closer to fourth or fifth than first.Fair enough on some of the points made in post but I will take you up on this one. Majority of academy is still from the big 6/7 schools like Blackrock, Clongowes, Terenure, Michaels, Marys, Belvedere but of the 6 entrants to Leinsters academy last May for this season 3 were from the youths system and 3 from the private schools and 6 of 22 academy overall are youths players and that will only increase.

16/12/2013 17:04:19
hill16no1man
ormond, outside of malahide,clontarf and sutton on the northside of dublin there is no rugby clubs.
also them three areas are all extremly upper class areas so its not a made up thing by the media its fact that rugby still only exists in upper class areas across the northside.
No they dont kids dont play rugby in those areas I named,for starters every public park will have gaa and soccer pitches with no rugby pitches at all. Thing about rugby is the difficulty compared to hurling/soccer etc to play it socially with the physical nature of the sport. Soccer and hurling/gaelic much easier so that's a factor in why you will see less pitches in public areas.

16/12/2013 21:47:22
RebelCork
You're really overreacting the importance of the heinekin cup in Ireland. I couldn't even tell you who was in the final last year and i'd say 80 percent of the people living around me wouldn't either and outside of Munster i usually don't even know if an Irish team are playing until i see the result. Youth rugby in Cork is pretty unaccesible anyway and the good rural players usually get snapped up by private schools in the city. Youth rugby in Cork is not pretty inaccessible(sic). Plenty of clubs like The Well, Dolphin, Con, Highfield and that's just the senior clubs... Good rural players don't really get snapped up that much by the city schools ie Bandon winning all Ireland at under 19 last april or Clonakilty winning yet another munster final etc



16/12/2013 21:54:40
hill16no1man
you see its not actualy improving much at all rugby.
its more to do with the massive media coverage it recieves which leads people to believe the game is growing in certain areas.
If it was growing in any of the areas across northside of dublin for example wouldnt there be rugby pitches being made in public parks There wouldn't really. Even in the most popular areas there is no rugby pitches in public parks. There is pitches in schools and clubs and apart from clubs that play on public greens in housing estates there is no pitches for insurance etc

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 17/12/2013 09:37:28    1524443

Dublin GAA is mainly a middle class game and holds very little sway in the working class areas , according to the last ESRI report on participation in Dublin rugby and GAA are about the same at 5% of the sports playing population with soccer at about 15% , Hurlingdub most of those so called imbiciles are also GAA fans .

tinrylandman (Carlow) - Posts: 387 - 17/12/2013 11:10:59    1524452

tell you what Tinyman, go stand on the Hill in June and tell me again how its mainly middle class areas :)

Liamwalkinstown (Dublin) - Posts: 8170 - 17/12/2013 11:38:13    1524459

I don't like harping on On this theme, but your way off bad monkey, GAA was always a game that transcended class, and was more a game of ordinary or poor than what you call middle class. Still today, its very popular in loads of council estates (especially for support) and every team, except maybe crokes has its share of ********. Some more than others:-)

flack (Dublin) - Posts: 1055 - 17/12/2013 11:46:04    1524461

Tinryland, there are a large number of people in all parts of the country who only follow soccer on TV, and have no interest in LOI never mind GAA.

As for rugby having the same level of participation as GAA, all you have to do is look at numbers of leagues at all ages in hurling and football compared to rugby.

hurlingdub (Dublin) - Posts: 6978 - 17/12/2013 11:56:31    1524465

Flack do you think soccer or GAA is more popular in those estates?
The GAA sports are very much the sports of the middle class parents in Dublin and for their Gaelscoil little darlings. Rugby is still king in affluent south east along the dart line.
As Aussie Jimbo will confirm , North county Dublin is cricket country!

bad.monkey (USA) - Posts: 4655 - 17/12/2013 12:20:24    1524469

You must have emigtaed in the 50s Bad Monkey :-)

hurlingdub (Dublin) - Posts: 6978 - 17/12/2013 12:26:11    1524471

ormond

hurling would have the same difficulties if not more then rugby among kids as its more cost effective.
the only thing near me that started up was a tag rugby group met on saturday mornings with about 5 or 6 of them messing about but it only lasted a few months and stopped.

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 17/12/2013 12:26:16    1524472

Last years Dublin county football champions were from one of Dublins most middle-class areas of course. I believe much of the Vodafone sponsorship money had to be spent on Brasso to remove the stains left in the cup from the fine Bordeaux wines it was filled with on its tour of each of the local areas wine bars!

Soma (UK) - Posts: 2630 - 17/12/2013 12:29:19    1524473

Joxer
County: Dublin
Posts: 1343

1524427
If we're talking about Irish franchises supported in Dublin then I would say that based on hardcore fan base the order would be....

Dublin maybe 12000
Leinster about 8000 from Dublin
Shamrock Rovers about 3500
Bohemian FC about 1500

think them numbers are miles off joxer.
starters shamrock rovers get under 2 thousand for most home league matches the same amount as bohs.
leinster come in at around 12 thousand as average home for league matches with about right your 8 thousand I would say from dublin.
dublin however for national league games would have an average of about 20 thousand for home league matches,doubling the nearest other team.

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 17/12/2013 12:29:58    1524474