I don't think they fear change, its more of if it ain't broke don't fix it attitude. Refs now do clamp down on any fouling, the rules are grand, if theyre enforced properly. Its not the black card I don't like, it's the idea that the two sports always need the exact same rules thats wrong. It's like disallowing kicked goals in football!

flack (Dublin) - Posts: 1054 - 05/12/2013 20:25:51    1521103

I really can't understand the fear from the hurling fraternity of the black card. If there is very little cynical fouling in hurling then what is the problem? They have nothing to fear in that case.

Of course both games are seperate in their own ways but both are under the umbrella of the GAA. You cannot have a black card for a cynical foul in football but not in hurling.

sedico (Kildare) - Posts: 1682 - 06/12/2013 08:50:18    1521134

sedico
County: Kildare
Posts: 1575
I'm sorry to say this but what you just said there was abasolute nonsense. the black card came up as a concept from the football review committee. As in people from all over Ireland emailed the reviewers and put forward their thoughts and grievances with the game. They thought about these changes for months and finally had to get them through central council.All in the knowledge that people on the ground playing football actually had a hand in how their game developed. So after all that negotiation and discussion you want to just throw this black in with hurling without even seeing how it goes for football for its first year? man sort your head out. Its a football development by a football review commitee who if i say so have dont a fanstastic job. But there changed are for their sport. Not hurling. If there is to be changes for hurling there should be a hurling review committee. Dont just lump us all together.

Fishermantom (Limerick) - Posts: 569 - 07/12/2013 16:31:14    1521433

Fishermantom
County: Limerick
Posts: 391

1521433 sedico
County: Kildare
Posts: 1575
I'm sorry to say this but what you just said there was abasolute nonsense. the black card came up as a concept from the football review committee. As in people from all over Ireland emailed the reviewers and put forward their thoughts and grievances with the game. They thought about these changes for months and finally had to get them through central council.All in the knowledge that people on the ground playing football actually had a hand in how their game developed. So after all that negotiation and discussion you want to just throw this black in with hurling without even seeing how it goes for football for its first year? man sort your head out. Its a football development by a football review commitee who if i say so have dont a fanstastic job. But there changed are for their sport. Not hurling. If there is to be changes for hurling there should be a hurling review committee. Dont just lump us all together.

I'll ask again. Does a cynical foul in football merit a yellow card while one in hurling does not? What is your fear over the card if hurling people believe that there is no cynical fouling? And why see how it goes in football before hurling? Thats completely pointless.

sedico (Kildare) - Posts: 1682 - 07/12/2013 17:43:07    1521446

06/12/2013 08:50:18
sedico
County: Kildare
Posts: 1576

1521134
I really can't understand the fear from the hurling fraternity of the black card. If there is very little cynical fouling in hurling then what is the problem? They have nothing to fear in that case.

Of course both games are seperate in their own ways but both are under the umbrella of the GAA. You cannot have a black card for a cynical foul in football but not in hurling.

Lazy lazy thinking , just to point out umbrella or no umbrella in one code one team takes to the field with sticks in the other code they dont , with your type of thinking the handball guys better watch out the black card is coming .

Damothedub (Dublin) - Posts: 5193 - 07/12/2013 17:46:45    1521448

What is your fear over the card if hurling people believe that there is no cynical fouling?
of course there is cynical fouling in hurling. Theres also cynical fouling in rugby and soccer. so you know what lets throw the black card rule into irish club soccer games and AIL rugby games too. 'sure what harm could it do'? man they are different sports. I hate the fact that hurling is part of the GAA because of the people like you in charge. Sure lets lump em all together. they be graaaaaaand. No we wont be gran. wel sort our house. you sort yours. Alos I am a dual player who also plays soccer and have played rygby for a good few years. So dont even think of calling me a hurling snob.

Fishermantom (Limerick) - Posts: 569 - 07/12/2013 18:44:43    1521464

Jeez keep your hair on man. I'm involved with both football and hurling so I dont have an agenda. I just cant figure why the big furore over it. When I spoke of them both being under the Gaa I was speaking paticularly of the black card. Imo cynical play in one cannot be treated differently than the other. Fyi Im not in charge of anything so you've no problems there. Its only my opinion.

Yea damo we'll bring in the black card for commitee meetings too

sedico (Kildare) - Posts: 1682 - 07/12/2013 21:08:05    1521501

Actually, you have a point sedico, I can't imagine it making much difference in the hurling anyway, there's no need for the furore at all

flack (Dublin) - Posts: 1054 - 07/12/2013 21:50:33    1521516

sedico
County: Kildare
Posts: 1578

Jeez keep your hair on man. I'm involved with both football and hurling so I dont have an agenda. I just cant figure why the big furore over it. When I spoke of them both being under the GAA I was speaking paticularly of the black card. Imo cynical play in one cannot be treated differently than the other. FYI I'm not in charge of anything so you've no problems there. Its only my opinion.

Yea damo we'll bring in the black card for commitee meetings too

Why shouldn't they be treated differently? They're completely different sports.

And that's the point. Hurling and football should NOT be treated the same just because they happen to be organised by the same Association. What goes for one should NOT for the other. Being DIFFERENT sports, they should be treated and administered DIFFERENTLY because they've so many differences due to being DIFFERENT sports.

And its that obvious differences that's the crux of the problem that hurling people have with the black card rule. Different sports should be treated differently, not precisely the same, and it seems to us anyway a rule designed purely for football (of which hurling people were guaranteed would not be put into their sport) looks like it will eventually end up being forced into hurling because Croke Park want it that way purely because its being introduced to football.

dblackandamber (Kilkenny) - Posts: 92 - 09/12/2013 18:59:53    1521960

Fisher man tom has a very good idea there.
There should be hurling review committee exactly like the football one that way the necessary problems in hurling that exist can be brought forward and solutions can be put forward to fix them instead of the current attitude from the pundits who just think ignoring or calling it a mans game will wash with everyone

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 09/12/2013 19:29:33    1521982

I agree with absolutely everything dblackandamber is saying here, its realy beginning to sicken me the word cynical at this stage as people seem to think that if a foul is committed within 45m of the goal its cynical.i imagine the reason hurling people (myself being one) dont want it introduced as it will be implemented wrongly,saying it' wont make much odds anyway' is lunacy and a typical croke park way of approaching matters. People have mensioned how could there be no cynical fouls when antony nash spent all day hitting 21yard frees is fair enough but why is it not then enough punishment to be awarded a penalty or 21 against you?theres a much higher chance of scoring in a hurling penalty than football so when these types of differences are clearly present then how can the same rules be applied to both games?will we make footballers take their '45' from the '65' or vice versa for hurling,maybe even a tee for the hurling goalie to hit puckouts from??make the footballers were helmets??give both games the respect they deserve and no 'crossover' rules

Colinog (UK) - Posts: 39 - 10/12/2013 10:12:49    1522076

Was there not a hurling development committee deciding until quite recently?

ringo (Wexford) - Posts: 384 - 10/12/2013 10:29:35    1522080

ringo
County: Wexford
Posts: 332

Was there not a hurling development committee deciding until quite recently?

There was, but it had no power to affect the game and could only give suggestions.

Their best suggestion of theirs being to keep the league format as a 6 team group, as that along with 15 teams competing for Liam McCarthy, the Munster championship would be setup as having a 5 team league with the top 2 in the Munster final (and automatically the AI QF's) and the other three into playoffs for QF's.
Leinster would have two groups of 5, the top two in each would play SF's against each other for the Leinster Final and AIQF places, the SF runners up and the third place team from each group would go to the qualifiers, and the fourth placed teams would go into a [playoff for the final playoff place.
The AI QF's and playoffs were to be open draw, and with the games planned around a league based championship, there was gaps made for club games.

The plan was immediately shot down of course. I haven't heard anything from the HRC since, or even if it exists anymore.

dblackandamber (Kilkenny) - Posts: 92 - 10/12/2013 17:56:26    1522374

dblackandamber
County: Kilkenny
There was, but it had no power to affect the game and could only give suggestions.
Their best suggestion of theirs being to keep the league format as a 6 team group, as that along with 15 teams competing for Liam McCarthy, the Munster championship would be setup as having a 5 team league with the top 2 in the Munster final (and automatically the AI QF's) and the other three into playoffs for QF's.
Leinster would have two groups of 5, the top two in each would play SF's against each other for the Leinster Final and AIQF places, the SF runners up and the third place team from each group would go to the qualifiers, and the fourth placed teams would go into a [playoff for the final playoff place.
The AI QF's and playoffs were to be open draw, and with the games planned around a league based championship, there was gaps made for club games. The plan was immediately shot down of course. I haven't heard anything from the HRC since, or even if it exists anymore.

Yeah, I remember seeing those proposals, thought they were a brilliant idea. We'd have still kept the provincial finals, but we would have finally had a more coherent premier competition where teams got a proper number of championship games, and a more solid schedule could be put in place, allowing for gaps for club games. Going forward, I'd love to see this being suggested again.

Marlon_JD (Tipperary) - Posts: 1823 - 10/12/2013 18:09:04    1522383

Totally agree with DBlackandAmber above.

The black card, if introduced, would be a disaster for hurling. It would make the weak weaker and the strong stronger. Imagine the likes of Carlow, Antrim, Laois in a tight game against one of the bigger powers or imagine the likes of Offaly, Wexford, and even Waterford ---teams that may have 15 good players but with nothing or very little on the bench -- taking on Kilkenny or Tipperary. The stronger teams are not going to be worried by the black card -- they'll foul if necessary because they'll know that even if one or 2 of their players get black-carded they will be able to bring on a sub who will be nearly as good as the black-carded player. On the other hand one black card for a weaker county would almost certainly finish off their challenge and see them lose the game because they just wont have that quality of player on the bench.

The football championship in 2014 will be predictable, boring, and not worth watching until at least the All Ireland QF stage because of the number of mismatches that will ensue in the early rounds due to this further tilting of power in favour of the stronger counties. Personally I dont care if they turn gaelic football into a borefest but I care deeply about the game of hurling and it appals me that suits, who have never played the game in their lives and come from a football background , are in danger of destroying through their ignorance the beautiful game of hurling.

PoolSturgeon (Galway) - Posts: 2009 - 11/12/2013 14:26:28    1522589