So the Master doesn't know?!

So they're more comfortable doing the more difficult thing. So basically as they are not comfortable kicking from the ground then kicking from the hand is the easier thing for them to do.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13792 - 15/10/2013 18:13:02    1501295

TheMaster
County: Mayo
Posts: 9118

1501238
Joxer
Easier with your good foot. Off the ground is more difficult with your weaker foot as you have to rise the ball accurately. From the hand you don't gave to worry about rising the ball.

On the average you will mis-hit a moving target more often than a static one, regardless of what foot you are using. That is just simple probability. The above makes no sense at all.
If a particular individual cannot rise a ball with his weak foot then that is down to his specific technique, or lack of it. What foot you are using makes no difference.

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It has nothing to do with probability it's the laws of physics. You're concentrating on one aspect of the process only, contact. You are not considering force required or trajectory. More force is required to kick a ball over the bar from the ground as the ball is not elevated. Additional force usually results in loss of accuracy. So put 1 and 1 together and leave probability to your lottery winning chances.

Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4737 - 15/10/2013 18:49:13    1501308

I think the main variable is distance! Its difficult to be a reliable scorer of frees from distance out of the hand due to the increased chances of ballooning, skewing and the difficulties of judging a ball reaching the top of its trajectory sooner with a wind. Hitting off the ground allows one the punch the ball into a breeze with relative ease that only the most skillful players can do out of the hand with any accuracy. Hitting a moving target is also more difficult and hitting a moving target with power is an order of magnitude more difficult again.

Close in frees require very little power and that is perhaps why many players utilise that option. One doesn't have to be an expert free taker for close in frees while hitting from distance with high accuracy is a huge skill. Most frees that Bernard Brogan scores are not difficult, however Brogan simply doesn't have the dead ball capability to do what Cluxton does. Hitting frees from distance is a different ball game!

seany16 (Dublin) - Posts: 1658 - 15/10/2013 20:55:13    1501363

Far easier to kick from the hand...

I was always able to get far more distance from kicking it out of my hands

I could put a point over from the 45 yard line out of the hand

But put it on the ground and I'd put 9/10 into the keepers hands...

Obviously had poor enough technique or lacked the fitness/strength to stick them over from the ground

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20763 - 16/10/2013 09:38:57    1501424

MesAmis
So the Master doesn't know?!
So they're more comfortable doing the more difficult thing. So basically as they are not comfortable kicking from the ground then kicking from the hand is the easier thing for them to do.

No, they are more practiced at it, thus they are more comfortable doing it, like the guy taking 2 solos instead of a solo and a hop - I notice you avoided that part. The fact that you did undermines your stance here. You are choosing to ignore the parts that dont suit what you want to hear. Im not doing that with any of your point, I am addressing it head on.

Also, the question was which is more difficult, not which is more difficult for the specific guy who favours kicking from the hands... A moving target will result in more miskicks, therefore it is more difficult to execute. Similarly there is more concentration required on things like carrying and dropping the ball, therefore more room for error. There are no variables there. Unlike where people are referring to what they personally feel better doing - obviously there are variables there when specific people with individual skillsets and levels of practice are involved. The question was which is harder to do; hit a moving target or hit a static target. It is always easier to hit a static target.

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 16/10/2013 09:57:41    1501437

It has nothing to do with probability it's the laws of physics. You're concentrating on one aspect of the process only, contact. You are not considering force required or trajectory. More force is required to kick a ball over the bar from the ground as the ball is not elevated. Additional force usually results in loss of accuracy. So put 1 and 1 together and leave probability to your lottery winning chances

Nothing to do with physics, then you start talking about force, trajectory and distance...

Of course it has something to do with probability, it has a lot to do with it. Look at your above example for instance. When the distance increases and so the force also, the probability of a miss increases. Similarly, in kicking from the hands, kicking a moving ball and the concentration and actions required to correctly execute the movement of the ball increases the probability of a miss. The more variables there are the more things that can have a negative effect on the process, and so the higher the probability of failure.

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 16/10/2013 10:09:19    1501446

TheMaster
County: Mayo
Posts: 9124

No, they are more practiced at it, thus they are more comfortable doing it, like the guy taking 2 solos instead of a solo and a hop - I notice you avoided that part. The fact that you did undermines your stance here. You are choosing to ignore the parts that dont suit what you want to hear. Im not doing that with any of your point, I am addressing it head on.

Also, the question was which is more difficult, not which is more difficult for the specific guy who favours kicking from the hands... A moving target will result in more miskicks, therefore it is more difficult to execute. Similarly there is more concentration required on things like carrying and dropping the ball, therefore more room for error. There are no variables there. Unlike where people are referring to what they personally feel better doing - obviously there are variables there when specific people with individual skillsets and levels of practice are involved. The question was which is harder to do; hit a moving target or hit a static target. It is always easier to hit a static target.

Not ignoring anything. Some solo twice instead of hopping the ball but it is usually to do with conditions and the vast majority of players hop the ball and then solo it.

But why do so many people do the more difficult thing Master with frees? If it is way easier, as you claim, to kick from the ground why do so many not bother doing the easier one? Don't come back with you "you'll have to ask them" line.

Why doesn't Cillian O'Connor do the easier thing if it is in fact easier? It could of saved Mayo some precious seconds in the All-Ireland Final, also maybe he wouldn't have missed those couple of frees in the 1st half. Fairly remiss of O'Connor to keep going with the more difficult skill when if he just went and did the easy thing it could well have benefited Mayo and possibly won them the All-Ireland.

So way more players in the GAA are more comfortable doing something that they've no need to be doing. Needlessly making the game more difficult for themselves according to the Master! The likes of Gooch and Canavan were so gifted but seemingly couldn't master the easier skill of kicking from the ground!

C'mon Master this is one of your poorer efforts. I would've thought the fact that so many teams do not possess a player capable of striking (an easy according to you) 45 would've shown you that kicking from the ground is, at the very least, as difficult as from the hand.

Junior B footballers kick frees from the hand but curiously don't go for your so called easier skill. hhhhmmmmm! C'mon man!

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13792 - 16/10/2013 10:37:33    1501480

Mike Meehan is as good a man with a dead ball as I've seen.Eoin Kelly of Tipp in hurling.

Barnowl94 (Galway) - Posts: 3150 - 16/10/2013 14:11:49    1501658

Declan Byrne from Louth Village won this and the 5k so end of thread

kikfada (Louth) - Posts: 2091 - 16/10/2013 17:30:26    1501811

TheMaster
County: Mayo
Posts: 9128

1501446
It has nothing to do with probability it's the laws of physics. You're concentrating on one aspect of the process only, contact. You are not considering force required or trajectory. More force is required to kick a ball over the bar from the ground as the ball is not elevated. Additional force usually results in loss of accuracy. So put 1 and 1 together and leave probability to your lottery winning chances

Nothing to do with physics, then you start talking about force, trajectory and distance...

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READ my post next time. I said nothing to do with probability everything to do with physics. You started out with the probability of contact with a moving object and then extend it to the probability of a string of other factors that apply to kicks from both the hand or off the ground so there is no argument there. There is a reason why your weaker foot is called your weaker foot - it has less strength than your stronger foot. Kicking a ball from the hand requires less force than from the ground. At the risking of repeating myself, more force = less accuracy. Your moving target contention doesn't stack up. For one we would see all frees taken from the ground and secondly the ball is not swirling around in an unpredictable manner before the strike. It is being dropped a few inches directly to the foot. You overemphasise the difficulty factor here. Finally it requires less force to lift the ball and this results in more accuracy from the hands.

Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4737 - 16/10/2013 18:23:24    1501851

I think Newman from Meath is a great free taker Colm Cooper and Michael Meehan are good too.

southmatt (Mayo) - Posts: 98 - 16/10/2013 20:32:24    1501912

Michael Murphy and Stevie Cluxton from the top sides. They have both done it when it matters and on the biggest stage of all

TheRightStuff (Donegal) - Posts: 1688 - 16/10/2013 20:58:39    1501936

TheRightStuff
County: Donegal
Posts: 330

1501936
Michael Murphy and Stevie Cluxton from the top sides. They have both done it when it matters and on the biggest stage of all


Yep I would pick those 2 as well for pressure scenarios. Some awful nonsense being spouted on here by certain people who I would hazard a guess don't play football never mind take frees. Hilarious.

TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 8354 - 16/10/2013 21:20:53    1501953

This isnt the worlds greatest video but COC scored this and an identical from the far side in the same game. He may not be the best but my god he's dalm good.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ai0EXAV758A

SamMaguire3 (Mayo) - Posts: 21 - 16/10/2013 21:30:55    1501960

God bless your eyesight SamMaguire3 :D

realdub (Dublin) - Posts: 8729 - 16/10/2013 21:43:32    1501969

Ray Cox

johnmurphy (Sligo) - Posts: 25 - 17/10/2013 09:40:15    1502007