I disagree that the % playing the game is the all-important stat. If county A has 150,000 people and every single one of them play gaa, and county b has 1.5 million and 10% of them play gaa, they stil have the same amount of people playing gaa. Now dublin might have a slightly higher percentage who dont play gaa in general. So in the above example we will say county A has 50% and county b has 30%. That means county a has 75,000, while county b has 450,000. Clearly percentages are misleading when such a huge difference in mass is involved. Now I accept I have just invented the figures, but it serves as an example.

When you consider the above, even if county b were split in half as it stands, each would have 225,000 compared to county a having 75,000. I appreciate that splitting them is tough and whatever else, and that they should be winning all round them before that would be considered, but at the same time, at what point do you say well tough luck if you lads are not good enough, the numbers involved are just too big and fairness has to come first. It is equivalent to lance armstrong coming second in all them tour de frances and trying to argue he should be let continue unchecked until he actually starts winning them...

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 26/07/2013 11:58:25    1442965

hill16no1man
County: Dublin
Posts: 5330

1442959 real slim shday

how have we 2.5 times the next county to choose from?
breakdown dublins population it becomes very evident that thats not true.
1.2million accounted for in dublin on last census.
650 thousand of them were female!!!!
leaving you immediately with 550 thousand men in dublin.
if at the very least half the number non nationals in ireland which is 550 thousand live in dublin thats 250 thousand which is again another 125 thousand men reducing the number of dublin males to 425 thousand.
now i cannot find a figure for the amount of country people resident in dublin but you can bet your house its a large figure.
thus blowing this whole 1.2 million number as a completer myth
______________

Dont let logic and intelligence get in the way of trolling hill...

They are entitled to their baffingly ignorant opinions though... and they will more than likely ignore yor post.

Only to repeat the same rubbish over and over again. They are not willing to listen... they are trolls.

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20763 - 26/07/2013 12:05:59    1442976

TheMaster
County: Mayo
Posts: 7909

You do have a point about "economies of scale" being lost on Dublin clubs. You are also correct re: the amount of teams fielded by Dublin teams at the two ages stated and its even more pronounced when you throw girls in at that age as well, with one super fielding 24 boys/girls teams at U13/U14.

But what exactly is the argument here?
We know Dublin is a big place it has huge "potential" resources and it does pay its way. Dublin can't be carved up - there are discussions in terms of trying to curb the bigger clubs - but thats an internal Dublin issue and will have no effect on the amount of people playing GAA in Dublin.
Super clubs have done nothing for either the clubs in question or the overall standard all they have done is distort the reality. The truth is that many Dublin clubs are finding it difficult, many are in severe debt, many are leaking numbers, many struggle to field teams.
Also the personal financial cost on mentors in trying to fundraise, field, kit and coach teams at every age is no different than it is the lenght and breath of the country.

So TheMaster how would you deal with Dublin GAA? for the good of the country from a country perspective?

arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4955 - 26/07/2013 12:07:11    1442978

the master

but them numbers are residents of dublin.
dublin dont have the pick of that 1.2 million like you are leading to believe.
for starters over half that population are women!!! we cannot pick them.
with around 250 thousand non antionals again not available to gaa clubs.
then take the number of country people resident counted for living in dublin in the 1.2 million and you will have avery large number.
yes there are non antionals in all countys but dublin has the high percentage of them and dublin has the high percentage of people born outside the county living here as any other captial city does because of work.other countys dont have that high anumber as there aint work to attract them.with a capital city you have a diverse culture so all sports are naturaly bigger meaning there is a far higher percentage playing the other main sports in dublin then you will find in most countys.
your arguement is way to simplistic

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 26/07/2013 12:09:13    1442980

jimbodub

oh i know but at the very least it might put some other posters who are willing to listen and maybe learn more about the whole myth of this 1.2 million available for jim gavin to pick from.

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 26/07/2013 12:11:17    1442984

THIS COMING FROM THE MAN TRYING TO SAY DUBLIN CLUBS FIELD OVER 10 TEAMS AT DIFFERANT AGE GROUPS HAHA.

Read arock's post.. haha indeed.


there are 550 thousand non nationals living in ireland and the latest cencus shows the vast majority of them live in dublin city and fingal electoral areas.to me that would mean over half of the 550 thousand at the very least!!!

Total guesswork. but let us take the example anyway. So there are 275 thousand non-nationals in dublin, you claim. Let us say there is 20 thousand in the average middle of the road county. That still isnt far away from the 10:1 ratio that dublin have over the average county in population in general. I acknowledged that there might be a slightly higher percentage, but the percentage is a drop in the ocean because of the sheer mass involved. So the 75,000 difference in the above is more than covered in the 900,000+ of a difference. 'Economies of scale' look it up...


yes there is more gaa clubs but there is also more clubs for other sports in dublin too meaning more then in other countys which you failed to take into account the last time you were trying to say dublin had a whole 1.2 million to choose from.

Again, same thing as above. There are more not playing, yes. But in a population difference of 10:1, and even with a higher drop-off rate there are still probably 6-7 times as many playing. Something that is reflected in the 7 teams clubs can field at underage level (arock's post) compared to other club sides down the country barely being able to field 1. It is common sense man.

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 26/07/2013 12:13:25    1442987

It's a wonder that the GAA survives in Dublin at all what with all those non nationals and women, not to mention those non national women. Women and people born outside of Ireland obviously have no involvement in the GAA!! ;)

beir_bua (Kildare) - Posts: 746 - 26/07/2013 12:16:19    1442992

How man elderly people Hill?

How many disabled people Hill?

How many intellectually challenged people Hill?

Live in Dublin... in total what maybe 200,000+

The list goes on...

Their argument is so simplistic that it's soooo easy to pick apart... their whole stance is idiotic.

Thats why they ignore so many posts put to them...

Why do you think they have practically zero support amongst other posters…?

They are not interested in anything other than portraying Dublin GAA in a negative light

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20763 - 26/07/2013 12:16:25    1442993

hill16no1man
County: Dublin
Posts: 5332

1442984 jimbodub

oh i know but at the very least it might put some other posters who are willing to listen and maybe learn more about the whole myth of this 1.2 million available for jim gavin to pick from.
_________

Nobody has any time for them around here man...

No one cares what themaster has to say... apart from other proven anti-dub posters

Their whole stance is pathetic... they are just scared of us man

Take all this attention as a bit pat on Dublin GAA's back... that we're finally doing all the right things

They cant stand that obviously...

We will continue as volunteers, as club members and as Dublin GAA fans to make sure that work continues...

Dublin GAA should be twice the size it is now... lets make that happen.

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20763 - 26/07/2013 12:23:26    1443005

hill16no1man, you do realise that there are the same or very similar percentages of women in every county right? We can all go into a breakdown of women in each county but since it is the same for everyone it has no bearing in the world. So ti is basically cut everyone's population in half or nobodies - which makes no difference anyway. You cant seem to get it into your head that thse things just scale down, with slight fluctuations here and there. But in the face of a 1000% increase in numbers, those fluctuations are a non-event.
If there are 100 people in county a and 1000 in county b. You cant make a song and dance about county b having 500 woman, because they also have 500 men, compared to county a's 50.

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 26/07/2013 12:23:31    1443006

TheMaster
County: Mayo
Posts: 7912

1443006 hill16no1man, you do realise that there are the same or very similar percentages of women in every county right? We can all go into a breakdown of women in each county but since it is the same for everyone it has no bearing in the world. So ti is basically cut everyone's population in half or nobodies - which makes no difference anyway. You cant seem to get it into your head that thse things just scale down, with slight fluctuations here and there. But in the face of a 1000% increase in numbers, those fluctuations are a non-event.
If there are 100 people in county a and 1000 in county b. You cant make a song and dance about county b having 500 woman, because they also have 500 men, compared to county a's 50.


Exactly man... Dublin will always have more but all Hill is syaing is that we dont have 1.3 million men to pick from!

It very easy to understand.

We'll always have a bigger pick... just like Mayo will always hav a bigger pick over many counties...

Someone has to sit at the top of the pile... and in this case it's Dublin

It always will be... the way country people are fleeing rural Iireland... expect Dublin population to get even higher

You have a long life of whinging ahead of you... :)

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20763 - 26/07/2013 12:31:17    1443019

Their argument is so simplistic that it's soooo easy to pick apart... their whole stance is idiotic.

Are you actually joking? Do you not see what you are saying? Idiotic?! You said it! For all your above examples, I would say about 10 times the average county. 10 times the elderly (not factoring in how many move to the country in their later years), 10 times the women, 10 times the everything. That is because there is 10 times the number of everything in dublin. Funny enough you never asked how many gaa players there are? Yep, that's right 10 times as many. Now I have accepted it is possible that more drop off, so we will take the example of youth players in current clubs in the county and say 7 times. Now unless women and non-nationals are somehow stopping 6 out of every 7 gaa players from taking to the field, I would say that this argument is what is idiotic.

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 26/07/2013 12:33:18    1443020

My learned Dublin friend.

Chillax man. Take a deep breath and think before your post.

You are indeed correct - half of the population of Dublin are indeed female. In fact slightly over half - 653k out of 1,273k are of the fairer gender. BUT here's a mad fact - half of all the other counties are female also!! In Cork there are 50% of the people there females too!

So that means there are 620k males in Dublin v 240k in Cork - 2.4 times the number of gents.

Now lets looks at Nationality - of the 1,248k people in Dublin some 195k are "non Irish" - 16%. In Cork it is 58k out of 513k - 11%. So lets apply these percentages to the above male populations and we have an "Irish male population" of 523k in Dublin and 228k in Cork - 2.3 times the number of Irish men in Dublin.

Now lets look at something nobody ever mentions which is the age profile of both counties. The percentage of people in the ages 5-34 (Roughly the profile of those participating in GAA) is 17% in Cork…..and a massive 40% in Dublin so lets now apply these percentages to our "Irish Males" above and we get: Dublin 208k Cork 39k - 5.27 times the "Irish Males of playing age"!!

One thing I can't access is the amount of people born outside the county living in both counties but here's the thing - people come to Cork to work too so it is safe to assume that on a percentage basis there are similar numbers in both - even if it twice the % in Dublin (and its not!) you would still have 2.6 times. This would also disregard the number of Dublin people living in other counties who would make themselves available for Dublin (my own being a prime example where more Arnotts shirts are visible at the club nursery on a Sunday morning than Tayto ones).

Cut it whichever way you want. It's a very touchy subject with our blue friends but it's a fact none the less - Dublin has a sizeable multiple of the playing resources of even its next biggest rivals at their disposal. Whether they use them right or not as our Kerry friend says is another matter but they still have the pool to do so.

Real_Slim_Shady (Meath) - Posts: 153 - 26/07/2013 12:42:21    1443031

TheMaster,

I'm not saying % is the all important factor, but it is a better number to start from.

Dublin's total pop is approx 10X Kerry's total pop. But I'd imagine that the relative % of people involved in GAA in Kerry is higher than the number in Dublin therefore the real world figures would be a lot closer together. Perhaps Dublin's "GAA population" is only be 3x Kerry's number? Who knows. Look at the Down and Antrim stats earlier in the thread. Those counties probably have smaller GAA Populations than Cavan and Sligo. Using % is just a way to try and get a more realistic starting figure.

There's no denying that Dublin have a vastly larger pool of players but there are so many other factors to consider that I don't see population as the most pertinent one. There are mitigating factors outside of population - coaching standards, opportunity to play at a high level, distractions outside of GAA - that need to be applied to every county relatively. I know growing up at home, for a long time our only outlet (social or sporting) was the GAA so it had a heightened importance. A player of a similar standard to me - a good club player - living in Dublin has a lot more they can do on a Sunday that travel across town in the rain.

At any time there will be a potential Gooch, Bernard Brogan, Sean Cavanagh, Karl Lacey playing U12 in every county in Ireland. A lot of things have to go right before that player fulfills their potential. They need to be coached, they need to be challenged, they need to get onto the right team at the right time, they need to be able to train regularly, they need to be injury free and healthy and they need to focus. Like every county, Dublin has its advantages and disadvantages but to focus on population is too simplistic.

kingdom_come (Kerry) - Posts: 83 - 26/07/2013 12:42:44    1443033

I'm not the idiot claiming that Dublin has 1.3 million MEN to pick from to play for our county team...

That's all you…

You have referenced the fact that we have said population to pick from countless times... over and over again

To me that's an idiotic stance… and completely ignorant, considering the amount of times it's been clearly explained to you.

An idiot ignores the facts and repeats the same misinformation over and over again as facts

All that Hill is saying is that we don't have 1.3 million MEN to pick from.... it's evry easy to understand

He's 100% correct

Dublin will always have a large population… that will always be an advantage that we have over every other county

Mayo will always have a large population over many other counties… that will always be an advantage that you have over many other counties

You don't hear them whinging about it for years on end… have a think about that...

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20763 - 26/07/2013 12:45:59    1443034

Exactly man... Dublin will always have more but all Hill is syaing is that we dont have 1.3 million men to pick from!

True, you have around 15% of that figure. Just like every other county has 15% of their figure... So unless women, non-nationals and the elderly are somehow able to play intercounty football in every county except dublin, the above has no bearing on anything. It all scales up, it all scales down.


We'll always have a bigger pick... just like Mayo will always hav a bigger pick over many counties...

I have no issue with them having a bigger pick. I do have an issue with them having 10 times the pick of the average county. Split them in half and they still have 5 times the pick, but it would be somewhat fairer. Both teams would still have 5 times the pick of mayo, and then whatever multiple of those teams you referenced that mayo are bigger than. At no point did I say every county has to have the exact same number, but they do need to be some ways relational to one another.


Someone has to sit at the top of the ple... and in this case it's Dublin

Fair enough. Just not so far on top that it threatens to take away the fairness of competition - like having 7 times as many players for example. You do want fair competition right?

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 26/07/2013 12:46:27    1443035

I'd say Monaghan will have a fair crowd in Croker anyways! But they won't let Pajo the Calf in. Does that mean that the GAA are calfist?

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 8120 - 26/07/2013 12:47:34    1443036

living in Dublin has a lot more they can do on a Sunday that travel across town in the rain.

At any time there will be a potential Gooch, Bernard Brogan, Sean Cavanagh, Karl Lacey playing U12 in every county in Ireland. A lot of things have to go right before that player fulfills their potential. They need to be coached, they need to be challenged, they need to get onto the right team at the right time, they need to be able to train regularly, they need to be injury free and healthy and they need to focus. Like every county, Dublin has its advantages and disadvantages but to focus on population is too simplistic.

__________

Once again. Excellent stuff... but I wouldnt waste your breath.

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20763 - 26/07/2013 12:52:25    1443042

TheMaster
County: Mayo
Posts: 7914

1443035 Exactly man... Dublin will always have more but all Hill is syaing is that we dont have 1.3 million men to pick from!

True, you have around 15% of that figure. Just like every other county has 15% of their figure... So unless women, non-nationals and the elderly are somehow able to play intercounty football in every county except dublin, the above has no bearing on anything. It all scales up, it all scales down.
______

Then why have you continually said on this site that Dublin have a population of 1.3 million people to pick from?

I agree fully 100% with you that the same logic applies to all counties.

There will always be advnatges and disadvantages in the GAA...

But for the love of God... please stop referencing our total population in Dublin as if we have 1.3 million eligiable MEN to pick from when choosing our county team.

Thst just plain idiotic and you've eben at it for as long as I can remember... whats 15% of 1.3 million people

I agree fully that we will always have a larger pool of players to pick from... but Mayo will also enjoy such an advatage of many other counties.

Advantages have always existed in the GAA... now it's up to Dublin GAA to finally take advanatage of such things

Long may it continue... and the same applies to every other county around the country

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20763 - 26/07/2013 13:00:09    1443050

Interesting what you say regarding the numbers of Dubs shirts at your own club Real Slim Shady. Many Dublin people who move out of Dublin seem to be more inclined to participate in community activities than they were in Dublin. I know that from my own family certainly. That has to do with the greater visibility of GAA and other sports and general poitive stuff than you have in many parts of Dublin where there is little interaction between people, and low levels of participation in sport, including the GAA.

Of course Dublin has huge potential playing population, but it also an increasingly anonymous and fractured city. Anomie I do bleive is the sociological term for it!

hurlingdub (Dublin) - Posts: 6978 - 26/07/2013 13:03:37    1443056