Jaysus theres more people living in Dundalk or Drogheda then there is in Leitrim.

OLLIE (Louth) - Posts: 12224 - 25/07/2013 20:41:17    1442662

ArminTamzarian
County: Cavan
Posts: 58

1442402 Cavan Gaa published a report on the reform of their current structure. One interesting point from it was that the last county with a population of less than 100,000 to win the All Ireland (in football) was the Offaly team that stopped the five in a row.

Basically if your county has less than 100,000 you are just not going to do it. Resources as well as player numbers is the issue. Look how much Donegal must be spending. Staying on hotels for a week at a time is crazily expensive.


Well there are 20 counties with official populations of over 100,000, which in itself means it should be healthy enough.

Offaly have shown in the past it can be done, and I still wouldn't rule out an All Ireland for the likes of Monaghan or Cavan who fall outside the 100,000 bracket.

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3026 - 25/07/2013 20:42:28    1442665

25/07/2013 17:01:47
Real_Slim_Shady
County: Meath
Posts: 82

1442411
ringo
County: Wexford
Posts: 279

1442363 Well, there are a few super huge clubs in Dublin that will field around 8 teams between U13 & U14 in football. That will go to about three at minor level, and then those big clubs will normally have a senior, inter and maybe 3 junior teams.

However, those sort of clubs are fairly rare. Many Dublin clubs are struggling to field one team at adult level like in other parts of the country.

I'd actually be more interested in finding out who these are. As you would expect there are more clubs springing up around Dublin than amalgamating so where these clubs are that can't field a team I couldn't think.

From my owne experience, fádo fádo, our club used to be able to field 2 teams at juvenile level. This in a small village in Meath when the population was 10% of what it is today so there's got to be clubs in Dublin who can field upwards of 6 teams or so anyway. Again I go back to St Brigids as an example - Castleknock and St Perigrans did not exist 20 years ago so you would have to look at the combined teams from the area to get a handle on the playing population there.

Peregrines, my informed friend is on the go over 30 years.

bluedubstar (Dublin) - Posts: 835 - 25/07/2013 20:54:58    1442680

of that population id like to fins out how many of dublins 1.2 million are non nationals does it say on that cencus as we had to answer enough questions when filling out the form and that was one?

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 25/07/2013 21:04:41    1442691

there's 160,000 in Armagh - roughly half from the unionist population - so we won an all=ireland with a pop of 80,000

cuchulainn35 (Armagh) - Posts: 1688 - 25/07/2013 21:27:52    1442712

Donegal has a population of 140000 and there is huge demand for tickets for the game on sat. Why did they have it in Leitrim, when they could have had it in Hyde Park Roscommon, or Breffni which both hold 30000. It may not have been a full house but it would mean that there would have been a bigger gate for the gaa.

Donegalman (None) - Posts: 3852 - 25/07/2013 21:41:08    1442725

cuchulainn35
County: Armagh
Posts: 776

1442712
there's 160,000 in Armagh - roughly half from the unionist population - so we won an all=ireland with a pop of 80,000

And the other 80,000 are trying to march down the Garvaghy Road.

OLLIE (Louth) - Posts: 12224 - 25/07/2013 21:45:38    1442727

hill16no1man
of that population id like to fins out how many of dublins 1.2 million are non nationals does it say on that cencus as we had to answer enough questions when filling out the form and that was one?

Do you lads ever come outside the capital at all? There are non-nationals in every county in ireland - some play gaa also. There are more in dublin, but then there are more of everything in dublin, so you cant just look at the number of non-nationals while not looking at all the other numbers. Everything is scaled up, including gaa players...

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 26/07/2013 09:29:40    1442776

bluedubstar
County: Dublin
Posts: 625

Peregrines, my informed friend is on the go over 30 years.

35 year ago to be exact but you're missing my point - how many new clubs have been formed in other counties in the last 40 years? Very few I'd wager.

In Dublin 15 you have
St Brigids
St Peregrines (est 1978)
Castleknock (est 1998)
Erin Go Bragh (a kind of Wimbledon FC type of club that moves around with population - 2005)

Look this arguement will go on and on. Fact is if you have 2.5 times the population of the next biggest county then you have to have an advantage.

I can't see another Offaly coming through again to win an All Ireland - resource wise the only way it would happen is if a benifactor threw a multiple of cash behind such a team that it meant they were effectively professional. I'm not talking 100k or a millions here either - it would have to be massive to give a county of 80-100k people an advtantage over their larger neighbours.

Real_Slim_Shady (Meath) - Posts: 153 - 26/07/2013 09:39:30    1442783

TheMaster
County: Mayo
Posts: 7900

There is soccer and rugby in mayo also.... You are correct though, it is down to numbers involved. Like the 10-12 teams many dublin clubs field between u-13/u-14 level, while in the average county, clubs struggle to get 25 lads total. Is taht the numbers you are talking about?

"Many Dublin clubs" I think you will find the ones you are talking about are the exception to the rule. The ones that easily fit your statement are BallyBoden (10), Crokes (10), Na Fianna (12), the rest are well maxed out (and falling) at 7/8 teams at these ages. By Minor it is much reduced numbers and it is now falling still. At U13/U14 for instance girls are now overtaking boys numbers.

But its not a sustanable model, nor are these clubs mentioned the BEST, so quality not quantity still counts.

arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4955 - 26/07/2013 09:43:40    1442785

7-8 is still more than 1 arock, is it not? Also, you talk like players dropping off as they get to minor/u-21 etc is something that doesnt happen anywhere else. Many clubs down the country have u-16 lads playing u-21, simply because there is nobody else. Players drop off in every county - again more drop off in dublin simply because there is more in the first place. You have bigger numbers going in, bigger numbers dropping off, and crucially, bigger numbers coming out. Economies of scale is something that appears to be lost on many dubs...

Although I will say fair play for posting honestly about the subject, there have been a few posters who have tried to purposely mislead the thread as regards dublin club football at underage level. Well either that or they dont know much about their own club...

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 26/07/2013 10:04:48    1442805

Real Slim Shady

You post exactly like themaster

He's found a firm back up of his exact opinions on all things Dublin in you...

I'm sure he appreciates the support...

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20763 - 26/07/2013 10:13:17    1442816

This is a classic GAA conversation, akin to the "If Cork didn't play hurling we'd beat Kerry in football every year" refrain.

Dublin may have a huge population but a more important factor would be the % of Dublin's population that play GAA as their main sport. In Kerry we have an above average county population but almost everyone plays football so our football playing % would likely be higher than Dublin. Coaching standards in Kerry are generally very high as well. In Dublin they have a much larger pool of players but up until recently, coaching standards don't seem to have been particularly good so you ended up with great athletes playing poorly.

Its a much more complicated thing than just merely saying that county population or number of teams should automatically translate to success. My home club has a really good underage structure but we struggle at senior level. Two of our recent county players were rubbish at 15 but grew into superb players at monir level. Because of our need for them to be involved in almost every match from U12 to U16 they ended up learning to play by very often marking players who were much better than they were. With 5 teams at U14 level, players find a level within a club (C team?) and it can be hard to move up to a better team and potential can be unfulfilled.

kingdom_come (Kerry) - Posts: 83 - 26/07/2013 11:00:53    1442878

jimbodub
County: Dublin
Posts: 10732

1442816 Real Slim Shady

You post exactly like themaster

He's found a firm back up of his exact opinions on all things Dublin in you...

I'm sure he appreciates the support...


I'm not sure how to take this James.

Since I came back to hoganstand.com over the past couple of months this issue seems to be the one that is guarenteed to wind Dubs up.

I make no apologies for having a reasoned debate on it - and you're right I have no particular love for Dublin GAA but having been schooled and working in the county I feel I am in a good place to comment on it.

The whole point about forums is debate not "oh sorry because it gets the back up of some folk I'll just agree with them"

An Mhi abú

Real_Slim_Shady (Meath) - Posts: 153 - 26/07/2013 11:15:13    1442896

dblackandamber
County: Kilkenny
Posts: 28

1442650
Here's a list of counties and their populations as of the last census taken (the census North and South of the border were in different years but are the most recent occurrence of them).

1 Dublin 1273069
2 Antrim 618108
3 Down 531665
4 Cork 519032
5 Galway 250541
6 Derry 247132
7 Kildare 210312
8 Limerick 191809
9 Meath 184135
10 Tyrone 177986
11 Armagh 174792
12 Donegal 161137
13 Tipperary 158754
14 Kerry 145502
15 Wexford 145320
16 Wicklow 136640
17 Mayo 130638
18 Louth 122897
19 Clare 117196
20 Waterford 113795
21 Kilkenny 95419
22 Westmeath 86164
23 Laois 80559
24 Offaly 76687
25 Cavan 73183
26 Sligo 65393
27 Roscommon 64065
28 Fermanagh 61170
29 Monaghan 60483
30 Carlow 54612
31 Longford 39000
32 Leitrim 31796

Hope that helps anyone.

-------------------------------

Interesting that Kilkenny is one of the least populous of the Liam McCarthy counties

Count_Awesome (Kildare) - Posts: 736 - 26/07/2013 11:16:46    1442901

Count_Awesome
County: Kildare
Posts: 581

With Kilkenny's small enough population, that is a prime example that the 100,000 mark isn't all that reliable.

When you look at Counties like Monaghan, Cavan, Laois etc, these are counties I could see winning football All Ireland's.
You need a decent panel for one year, and a rub of the green so to speak.
Any county in Ireland could by a miracle happen to have 15 of the best players in the country, regardless of population.

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3026 - 26/07/2013 11:30:57    1442922

Real_Slim_Shady
County: Meath
Posts: 84

1442896 jimbodub
County: Dublin
Posts: 10732

1442816 Real Slim Shady

You post exactly like themaster

He's found a firm back up of his exact opinions on all things Dublin in you...

I'm sure he appreciates the support...


I'm not sure how to take this James.

Since I came back to hoganstand.com over the past couple of months this issue seems to be the one that is guarenteed to wind Dubs up.

I make no apologies for having a reasoned debate on it - and you're right I have no particular love for Dublin GAA but having been schooled and working in the county I feel I am in a good place to comment on it.

The whole point about forums is debate not "oh sorry because it gets the back up of some folk I'll just agree with them"

An Mhi abú

_______

pfffhhh

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20763 - 26/07/2013 11:35:33    1442926

kingdom_come
County: Kerry
Posts: 4

1442878 This is a classic GAA conversation, akin to the "If Cork didn't play hurling we'd beat Kerry in football every year" refrain.

Dublin may have a huge population but a more important factor would be the % of Dublin's population that play GAA as their main sport. In Kerry we have an above average county population but almost everyone plays football so our football playing % would likely be higher than Dublin. Coaching standards in Kerry are generally very high as well. In Dublin they have a much larger pool of players but up until recently, coaching standards don't seem to have been particularly good so you ended up with great athletes playing poorly.

Its a much more complicated thing than just merely saying that county population or number of teams should automatically translate to success. My home club has a really good underage structure but we struggle at senior level. Two of our recent county players were rubbish at 15 but grew into superb players at monir level. Because of our need for them to be involved in almost every match from U12 to U16 they ended up learning to play by very often marking players who were much better than they were. With 5 teams at U14 level, players find a level within a club (C team?) and it can be hard to move up to a better team and potential can be unfulfilled.
______

It takes a Kerry man.

A fine post without bias or alternative motives.

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20763 - 26/07/2013 11:37:01    1442929

TheMaster
County: Mayo
Posts: 7909

1442776
hill16no1man
of that population id like to fins out how many of dublins 1.2 million are non nationals does it say on that cencus as we had to answer enough questions when filling out the form and that was one?

Do you lads ever come outside the capital at all? There are non-nationals in every county in ireland - some play gaa also. There are more in dublin, but then there are more of everything in dublin, so you cant just look at the number of non-nationals while not looking at all the other numbers. Everything is scaled up, including gaa players...

THIS COMING FROM THE MAN TRYING TO SAY DUBLIN CLUBS FIELD OVER 10 TEAMS AT DIFFERANT AGE GROUPS HAHA.
i propably visited nearly every county in the country can you say the same?
there are 550 thousand non nationals living in ireland and the latest cencus shows the vast majority of them live in dublin city and fingal electoral areas.to me that would mean over half of the 550 thousand at the very least!!!
yes there is more gaa clubs but there is also more clubs for other sports in dublin too meaning more then in other countys which you failed to take into account the last time you were trying to say dublin had a whole 1.2 million to choose from.
non nationals participation in gaa would be extremly low in dublin in comparison to other sports for obvious resons as most come here at an adult age to work they are not going to start playing gaa ahead of a sport they are familiar with.

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 26/07/2013 11:48:04    1442952

real slim shday

how have we 2.5 times the next county to choose from?
breakdown dublins population it becomes very evident that thats not true.
1.2million accounted for in dublin on last census.
650 thousand of them were female!!!!
leaving you immediately with 550 thousand men in dublin.
if at the very least half the number non nationals in ireland which is 550 thousand live in dublin thats 250 thousand which is again another 125 thousand men reducing the number of dublin males to 425 thousand.
now i cannot find a figure for the amount of country people resident in dublin but you can bet your house its a large figure.
thus blowing this whole 1.2 million number as a completer myth

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 26/07/2013 11:55:22    1442959