With everyone having input on their formats, I may as well air my own thoughts on this. Scrap rounds 3 and 4 of the qualifiers and have an All-Ireland Round of 16 instead.

The Championship would run as follows:
Matchday 1: Provincial preliminary rounds
Matchday 2: Provincial quarter-finals
Matchday 3: Provincial semi-finals | Qualifier round 1
Matchday 4: Provincial Finals | Qualifier round 2
Matchday 5: All-Ireland Round of 16
Matchday 6: All-Ireland quarter-finals
Matchday 7: All-Ireland semi-finals
Matchday 8: All-Ireland final.

Give provincial winners home game in the Round of 16 against 4 lowest qualifier round 2 losers based on league placings. Provincial runners-up against the remaining 4 qualifier round 2 winners, with separate draw for home tie. This would also help give provincial grounds some high profile knock-out games.

I think the Round of 16 is a better option than separating the championship with 32 teams going into a round 1. Running qualifier rounds 1 and 2 in line with the provincial semi-finals and final will help streamline the competition somewhat better. Provincial stages across provinces should be more in line with each other. This should assist Round 1 of the qualifiers being held possibly a week or two earlier for teams knocked out of their provinces early. With provincial semi-finals and finals spread over a number of weekends, there's no reason why qualifiers could not run similarly to cut the gap if possible between knocked out of province and next game.

I'm not fully sure a two tiered championship can come in for football. At best the Tommy Murphy Cup could be contested by qualifier round 1 and qualfier round 2 losers as a secondary championship for the rest of the summer. Generally once teams are out of the championship however, it's understandable players want to go back playing for their clubs.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 9800 - 21/06/2013 19:16:54    1412540

This notion that McHugh/Donegal want to get rid of the backdoor because we think we are above it, after one All-Ireland, is a joke.

The aim for us is (now thank God) always Ulster, we won our first for 20 years the season before last and we only became successful after focusing solely on the provincial championship. I'm not saying we wouldn't be thankful of the qualifiers if and when we get beat but it would be much more exciting without them.
The backdoor did not in any way build this Donegal team. We were at our lowest ebb in 2010 easily the worst shape a Donegal team had been in since the 80s and the most pathetic championship exit I can remember. And we hadn't looked like doing anything since 2003 in the years before that.

The only way the qualifiers have been good for Donegal is if you enjoy sessions and big super Sundays on the lash as we stumbled on during the summer with a couple of poorly attended double headers in Croker. If thats how you measure a successful year then lets just turn the GAA into the NBA or NHL and 90 games a year.

SeanieSense (Donegal) - Posts: 328 - 21/06/2013 21:18:24    1412614

It's important to clarify, unless I'm missing something, that McHugh called for an end to the backdoor but also called for a group stage. Important point with this is that players deserve more than 1 game and McHugh is not looking for any different in that respect.

In a group stage of 3, if you lose your first two games you are more or less on your way home. Group stages don't change much in that respect to the current championship with the qualifiers. Look at the foreign sport confederations cup currently being played in Brazil. The three teams on 0 points after two games are out of the competition.

In the hurling 10 counties are going to be protected from a relegation system. This shows the difference between the two sports. A relegation system in the Sam Maguire Cup will not be accepted. Their are certain counties the GAA will want to protect for obvious reasons. While in the McCarthy a two tiered approach to the McCarthy Cup has been accepted to relegation and protecting some counties from relegation, that would not be accepted in football. I've said before, taking an example from next year's hurling championship, each province possibly could have 4 teams that go into a qualifying group.

In Munster: Limerick, Tipperary, Clare and Waterford could go into a qualifying group with the top 2 joining Cork and Kerry at the provincial semi-final stage.

In Connaught, agreement would have to be found for 4 teams to enter a qualifying group with the top 2 joining Mayo and one other seeded county in the provincial semi-final stage.

In Ulster, agreement would have to be found for 4 teams to enter a qualifying group with the top 2 joining the other 5 Ulster counties in the provincial knock-out stage.

In Leinster, agreement would have to be found for 4 teams to enter a qualifying group with the top 2 joining the other 7 counties in the provincial knock-out stage.

The bottom 2 teams from the 4 provincial groups should enter the Tommy Murphy Cup as their competition for the rest of the summer.

With 24 counties participating in the provincial knock-out stage, the 16 not making a provincial final should enter a play-off. The 8 play-off winners should join the 8 provincial finalists in a Round of 16. Draw provincial winners at home against the 4 lowest play-off winners based on league placings. Draw provincial runners-up against the 4 remaining play-off winners, with separate draw for home tie.

With this system, lower provincial counties would get 3 games before playing difficult opposition. The 8 teams not getting out of their groups would enter a competition at their level to compete in. It would only be for that summer and would not affect their championship status as in the next year, they'll still have their chance at going for All-Ireland glory.

The only thing that would need to be cleared up is how would teams be selected to enter a provincial qualifying group? It could be based league placing with the stipulation provincial and All-Ireland champions are exempt from the qualifying group. In Munster for example, if Tipperary were ranked in the bottom 4 of the 6 counties based on the league but they won the Munster championship, one of Kerry or Cork would have to drop into the provincial group the following year. To even go a step further, if Limerick won the All-Ireland, it would see both Kerry and Cork having to enter the provincial qualifier group were neither they nor Limerick the provincial champion. A system like this to have integrity would have to mean no county is exempt from being put into a provincial qualifier group should that situation arise.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 9800 - 22/06/2013 15:38:53    1412800

Ah moan, moan, moan.
That's all we hear. Typical Gaa. We moan about everything. We want Rte to create a Gaa show and when they do (championship matters) we slag it off. We complain about football, hurling,North/South, everything and anything.
McHugh is talking nonsense. The backdoor has helped a lot of smaller counties like Wexford (2008), Wicklow (2011), Kildare (each of the last 5 years), Fermanagh (2004),Monaghan (2008) and Sligo (2002) have great adventures over the last decade which they wouldn't have had under the old system.
The last few championships have been fine and for this one the qualifiers haven't even got started yet, so lets all relax and see what happens. It could be a good Summer yet.

joncarter (Galway) - Posts: 2692 - 22/06/2013 16:08:49    1412826

joncarter
County: Galway
Posts: 507

1412826
Ah moan, moan, moan.
That's all we hear. Typical Gaa. We moan about everything. We want Rte to create a Gaa show and when they do (championship matters) we slag it off

Slightly off topic but you brought it up.I think people wanted RTE to create a good GAA show , a bit like Breaking Ball was before it was got rid of for some reason.

uibhfhaili1986 (Offaly) - Posts: 1296 - 22/06/2013 17:05:10    1412856

Theres nothing wrong with championship matters. I think its grand. My point was that no matter what they put on I reckon that we would have complained about it.

joncarter (Galway) - Posts: 2692 - 22/06/2013 17:09:26    1412859

I think when it comes to the AI final it should be the best of 5 games
can you imagine the interest and exicitement it would bring
Dublin and Mayo 2 wins each who is going to take it
Kilkenny 1 win Galway 2 wins who is going to take it

wfkerry (USA) - Posts: 933 - 22/06/2013 18:30:10    1412912

22/06/2013 18:30:10
wfkerry
I think when it comes to the AI final it should be the best of 5 games
can you imagine the interest and exicitement it would bring
Dublin and Mayo 2 wins each who is going to take it
Kilkenny 1 win Galway 2 wins who is going to take it What??
Please be taking the p***(assume you are)
No way at all feasible and would not work. How often play games??

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 22/06/2013 19:16:15    1412941

I think the All Ireland Series is fine as it is.
Round 4 of the Qualifiers is fine too, as it features the 4 x Qualifier winners against the 4 x Provincial runners up.

Rounds 1, 2 and 3 of the Qualifiers is where we need change. This needs to be made attractive to both players and fans alike.

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3057 - 22/06/2013 20:32:16    1412988

GaryMc82
County: Derry
I think the All Ireland Series is fine as it is.
Round 4 of the Qualifiers is fine too, as it features the 4 x Qualifier winners against the 4 x Provincial runners up.
Rounds 1, 2 and 3 of the Qualifiers is where we need change. This needs to be made attractive to both players and fans alike.

If you're looking to change the first three rounds of the qualifiers, I think the GAA's preference would be to have one less round in the qualifiers. They achieved that a few years ago when they got a motion through for division 4 teams to enter the Tommy Murphy Cup instead. Funnily enough, the turkeys that voted for Christmas did not like the change!

If you take the provincial qualifiers I mentioned above, that could be a more acceptable approach to reducing the qualifiers by one round and bring back the Tommy Murphy Cup. If each province had 4 counties entering a provincial qualifier group. With the top 2 advancing to their respective provincial knock-out stage, the bottom two teams from the four groups could enter the Tommy Murphy Cup. With this, each county entering the Tommy Murphy Cup will have gotten 3 championship games in their groups. If their not in the top 2, it would be fair enough at that stage to enter a secondary competition for the rest of the summer. Having only 24 teams in the provincial knock-out stage would lead to the need for only 3 qualifier rounds.

All this ties in with systems the GAA already have tried or will be trying next year. A provincial qualifying group is going to be used in the hurling next year. The GAA have shown interest before in reducing the fooball qualifiers by one round with 8 counties entering the Tommy Murphy Cup instead. If there's more fairness in how counties enter the TMC, it's more likely to be accepted.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 9800 - 23/06/2013 09:09:36    1413085

Problem really is that . especially in Munster where nearly all the counties are hurling first ,they are falling further behind in the modern game of football,( cork being the exception)Where training has moved on and resourses are very important.
Mayo and Donegal have really put in the work ,but they dont have to worry about dividing resourses and kids coming through going to hurling.obviously there is more than just that , good coaches and players , but no distractions or competition from hurling helps.
Ulster is the most competitive , but again nearly all the counties only have to concentrate on football. Antrim being best in hurling ,but not strong in football.
Connaught has suffered with Galway and Roscommon going backwards.( they need to get stronger or this province will become the worst to watch)
Leinster , Dublin have dominated in number of titles , but the matches were close and they easily could have and should of lost a few of them. there is two semis this year which holds interest for the fans.

There is 6 to 8 teams that give each other good games and the list of 5 different winners from the last 5 years,shows that compared to other championships around the world we have a very good system from last 8 onwards.
problem which makes us want change is the gulf from top to bottom and in early championship games,div 1 teams playing div 4 teams at begining of championship is what needs to be changed.

AthCliath (Dublin) - Posts: 4347 - 23/06/2013 12:09:48    1413152

Sorry, more than 6 to 8 teams can give each other games ,i mean top 6 and maybe two more can think they have a chance of winning Sam if things go their way.

AthCliath (Dublin) - Posts: 4347 - 23/06/2013 12:19:15    1413156

The problem in hurling is a team like Down who won the Ring aren't given a game against a tough team in the summer. In football division 4 counties are given the opportunity to test themselves against strong teams. While it's a nightmare on one side surely there's benefit from testing yourself against the best in at least one game. The GAA to be fair as I mentioned already tried to resolve this problem a few years ago by bringing in the Tommy Murphy Cup for division 4 counties. If that system had remained, Waterford for example who were beaten out the gate in Killarney could be looking at a more realistic target of building in the Tommy Murphy Cup as opposed to being drawn against Tyrone or some tough opponent in qualifier round 2. There's only so much the GAA can try and do. As Cyril Farrell said, the GAA can be slow to move. Having tried the Tommy Murphy Cup and the way that went, it's not surprising they aren't in a hurry to look at it again.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 9800 - 23/06/2013 13:01:38    1413173

legendzxix
County: Kerry
Posts: 2528

1413173
The problem in hurling is a team like Down who won the Ring aren't given a game against a tough team in the summer. In football division 4 counties are given the opportunity to test themselves against strong teams. While it's a nightmare on one side surely there's benefit from testing yourself against the best in at least one game. The GAA to be fair as I mentioned already tried to resolve this problem a few years ago by bringing in the Tommy Murphy Cup for division 4 counties. If that system had remained, Waterford for example who were beaten out the gate in Killarney could be looking at a more realistic target of building in the Tommy Murphy Cup as opposed to being drawn against Tyrone or some tough opponent in qualifier round 2. There's only so much the GAA can try and do. As Cyril Farrell said, the GAA can be slow to move. Having tried the Tommy Murphy Cup and the way that went, it's not surprising they aren't in a hurry to look at it again.


And there is where the problem is, some counties thinking they are above a second tier competition. I don't know how you make a second tier competition attractive with a bit of prestige to it but thats what needs to be done. Its friggin madness expecting every county to be in the same competition and at the same level. Add in a promotion type scenario and surely it becomes worthwhile, look at the soccer acros the pond them championship play offs are a big thing, it means so much to play at the top level.It would be an aim to get things going in your county so you could compete at the top.

51longago (Mayo) - Posts: 2981 - 23/06/2013 13:09:25    1413178

51longago
County: Mayo
And there is where the problem is, some counties thinking they are above a second tier competition. I don't know how you make a second tier competition attractive with a bit of prestige to it but thats what needs to be done. Its friggin madness expecting every county to be in the same competition and at the same level. Add in a promotion type scenario and surely it becomes worthwhile, look at the soccer across the pond them championship play offs are a big thing, it means so much to play at the top level.It would be an aim to get things going in your county so you could compete at the top.

The only problem as happened in the hurling years ago is, if the wrong county ends up being in the relegation zone or being relegated, calls will be made to change the structures. This rules out relegation being accepted. It won't be accepted and is a non-runner. Any traditional county running into a bad run will not accept relegation. It is impossible to make secondary competitions attractive. It's down to individual team's to use them as a chance to build for the next campaign and bring on a few players.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 9800 - 23/06/2013 19:39:49    1413588

i think that the GAA when they brought in this backdoor system they didn;t put much thought in to it. if they mimicked the old heinekn cup format with 6 groups an the top teams qualify and the best 2 runners up for 1/4 finals (football)

You could have a smaller version in the hurling eliminating the provincial crapology.

and the team that wins the all-ireland in their prospective sports should have to play the first game every year in a premlininary to get in to the group stages.

you have 32 teams in football. 6 groups of 5 with top 1 qualify with 2 best runners up. and use the system too of the heinken cup where the best points meant you were the number 1 seed and 2,3 and so forth , 7 and 8 would be the 2 best runners up for 1/4 finals

i am not sure about hurling as there are not as many play that . but you could have 4 groups of 4 with the best tops and the best runners up with just 6 teams in the knock out stages . and use the same format for the knock stages of the hurling c,ship.

and why don't they have games on wednesday evenings ??

saturdays are better days for matches as people tend to get off work that day and people can suffer a hangover on sunday then in to work on monday. sunday is i think a boring day to watch a match and out of touch with modern needs.

Crow

Timothy (Cork) - Posts: 2 - 12/07/2015 19:28:19    1752014

I would have four groups of 8 teams. Only the top 8 teams are allowed to play for Sam. Each team in the top 8 plays each other once. The top 2 teams would qualify for the final. The bottom two would be relegated. It would need a total of 8 weekends and every week you are guaranteed a big match almost.

You could have a secondary competition played on a knock out basis.. Perhaps at a regional level..north, south, east and west...all teams could enter these completions..the winners could even play off against each other at a national level..ultimately though this is very much second in terms of importance

bennybunny (Cork) - Posts: 3917 - 12/07/2015 20:36:38    1752086

We have been tinkering with the rules with a variety of coloured cards taken from soccer and other sports. Now some of ye want to makes a champions league out of it. The next thing some of ye will be looking to kick the ball on the ground without handling it. If we want to level the playing pitch we should fund the weaker counties. How can a county like Leitrim compete with say Cork or Dublin who have about 5-6 times more clubs and significantly more finance. In Leinster the Dubs have a coach in each club and that is where you start if you want to build a team to compete with the best.

browncows (Meath) - Posts: 2342 - 12/07/2015 20:57:51    1752117

Munster-Cork, Kerry, Tipperary, Limerick, Clare, Waterford, Wexford, Offaly
Connacht-Mayo, Galway, Roscommon, Leitrim, Sligo, London, Longford, Donegal
Ulster-Armagh, Antrim, Cavan, Fermanagh, Monaghan, Tyrone, Down, Derry
Leinster-Meath, Kildare, Westmeath, Laois, Louth,Carlow, Wicklow, Dublin

I divide provinces into 8 and have 2 groups of 4 in each province. Every team gets 3 games
The team that tops group go into provincial final. The winners gets home advantage for Quarter final
Teams 2nd -4th go into B Championship. Team that finished 3rd/4th( 8 teams) in 1st round. Teams that finished 3rd enter the next round

Final played before All Ireland Final

Pros

All teams have minimum of 4 Championship Games


Cons

Will it effect club football?

HughHunt24 (Cork) - Posts: 841 - 12/07/2015 21:43:34    1752173

I think the championship is not too far off as it is. First of all counties need to look at how important the league is. If you are not in Division 1 you do not win the all-ireland. The back door has worked and over the years has has given us some great matches. I was at Fermanagh yesterday as a neutral and it was a good game between two well matched teams. As a Tyrone fan we have meet teams outside Ulster who we would never meet in championship battle which is very enjoyable and the trip to Tipp next week is the latest example. The problem appears to be in the province and yet I would not change the knock out nature of these competitions. The Ulster championship is in good health but I dont know how you overcome the dominance of Dublin in the east at the moment. I think Jim McGuinness has come closest to suggsting the best route for the future but will the counties accept it.

Byanthon (Tyrone) - Posts: 1800 - 13/07/2015 10:14:22    1752295