oh here we go again...mchugh adding to the media driven agenda to get rid of provincial championships..what mchugh seems to forget is that it was a media and so called pundits agenda which brought about the back door...a group format will be an absolute disaster for the game,so many meaningless matches...and what have the weaker counties toplay for then?..absolutely nothing...the likes of limerick,clare,carlow,antrim etc will have even less to play for...what will be the point in putting in the effort to achieve what?...at least with the provincial championship we have the possibility of leitrim reaching a connaught final,along with cavan or monaghan in an ulster decider...how dare mchugh deny these teams their day out?

mayotyroneman (Tyrone) - Posts: 1821 - 18/06/2013 20:56:49    1410307

Topa_the_left : Tipperary are a far more competitive and indeed superior team then antrim and if Tipp or limerick were in any other provincial championship other then munster they would have either won or got to the finals in the last 10 years.

arravale (Tipperary) - Posts: 244 - 18/06/2013 21:17:35    1410335

18/06/2013 19:55:18
kavvie
most of the minnows would prefer to be out and not prolong the agony.at least 20 teams would get hammered by any
of the top 5.so its to their detriment really.take clare for instance.a good honest div4 team.they lost a munster
semi to cork last sunday.they have to wait to play in the 2nd phase of the qualifers.the chance of them winning
is remote.if they were out they could run off the club championship in the best of the summer weather.instead we have
a situation where the first round of the club championship isnt til early august.so the back door has stopped
club players playing in the summer months.im sure its the same in most other countys.if the league and mcgrath
cups etc were taken more seriously the county teams would get at least 15 games a year..?
What "minnows would prefer to be out"??
Backdoor has not stopped club players from playing in summer months. The attitude and ability of club officials, county board officials and county management teams to work together to create a proper season structure has led to few club games being played In the summer months in some countys.
Tipperary has been quite successful in hurling in recent years yet club players always get plenty of games to play in summer time in the club championship
All county teams get 15 games a year already whether league etc taken serious or not

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 18/06/2013 21:20:22    1410340

why not have two championships. one for first and second division teams and one for 3 and 4 division teams.
At the end of the league where you finish determines which championship you enter. put importance on a competitive league.
would make counties give the league a real go and there wouldnt be that many lobsided matches.
3 and 4 division teams could have a championship that they could genuinely believe they could win.

AthCliath (Dublin) - Posts: 4347 - 18/06/2013 21:29:56    1410351

arravale
County: Tipperary
Posts: 167

Although I agree that Tipp are far more competitive than Antrim at the minute, as there are club teams within Antrim that are more competitive than the current county squad, its hard to imagine the Dublin's and Tyrone's of the last number of years being too worried about ye.

Topa_the_left (Antrim) - Posts: 250 - 18/06/2013 21:34:00    1410356

ath cliath...players from the div 3 and 4 teams have made it abundantly clear they do NOT want a B championship

mayotyroneman (Tyrone) - Posts: 1821 - 18/06/2013 21:38:56    1410360

Why not have Senior/Inter/Junior at Intercounty like they have at club level? 12 in Senior/12 in Inter/10 in Junior. 4 groups of 3 in Senior and Inter. Top 2 go through to the Quarter finals. Bottom team in each group play in a relegation play off. Who ever loses go down a grade and who wins there grade goes up. In Junior you could have 2 groups of 5. Top 2 go through to the semies.

OLLIE (Louth) - Posts: 12224 - 18/06/2013 21:41:26    1410365

it truly is the silly season....nothing wrong with the structure...may and june always sees the big teams handing out beatings to the weaker teams...none of these madcap ideas will change the fact that the weaker counties are weak...can someone actually tell us what a group format will achieve that the current structure doesn't????

mayotyroneman (Tyrone) - Posts: 1821 - 18/06/2013 21:58:34    1410389

mayotyroneman
County: Tyrone
Posts: 1011

1410360 ath cliath...players from the div 3 and 4 teams have made it abundantly clear they do NOT want a B championship

Ah i know, dont even know if id be convinced myself. just something to give the likes of waterford or Antrim to name two a championship that they could look forward too. look at the ridiculous situation that waterford are in this year , because they got a bye.

AthCliath (Dublin) - Posts: 4347 - 18/06/2013 21:59:13    1410392

OLLIE
County: Louth
Posts: 4870

It works with both ladies codes and their numbers are up up at all levels of the games.

So what we have here (on this thread and elsewhere i.e. Friday night games), it is just the usual NO brigade, no to everything, with the usual "lets leave this dogs dinner of a competition in place". It would take about another 125 years just to undo the current mess that has been created. What an appalling set of anarchic competitions, a shambles is very apt.

arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4968 - 19/06/2013 09:45:21    1410432

There is no straight forward alternative to this. We already have heard the complaints from counties who go out in the first round after 6 months of hard training, without any more football to look forward to. This is why the back door was introduced. There have been many hammerings of weaker teams in this section of the championship. But there have been huge results (albiet not too often). Antrim, Longford and Sligo have all pushed kerry to the pin of their collar, not to mention westmeath last year. This could not be seen as anything but a success for these teams and their supporters, even though they were beaten.

MuHugh is very successfully creating a debate on an issue that he knows will be very controversial. He is good at this, and will sell papers. That is his job.

Donegalman (None) - Posts: 3858 - 19/06/2013 09:58:06    1410442

Is it not part of sport that one team will be better than another. At this stage of the ch'ship, the better teams are beating the weaker teams, but it will even out, as the year goes on. It seems funny, how everyone wants change to happen, but they dont think about the consequences. If we seperate the championship, then players wont commit. No one is going to train from the start of the year to play in a secondary competition. Also, at a stage when crowds at games are lower than they were in previous years, interest will be even lower in these competitions, and considering how the Sunday game treats certain counties already, then these games in a secondary competition wont receive any coverage.

PK57 (Louth) - Posts: 1664 - 19/06/2013 10:09:59    1410449

mayotyroneman
County: Tyrone
Posts: 1012

1410389
it truly is the silly season....nothing wrong with the structure...may and june always sees the big teams handing out beatings to the weaker teams...none of these madcap ideas will change the fact that the weaker counties are weak...can someone actually tell us what a group format will achieve that the current structure doesn't????

How about meaning that all counties will play the same number of games to get to the same stage of the championship?

Can you tell me where, in any other respected competition, does a team have to play 2 more knockout games than another team to get to the same stage? Which is currently the case for prelim round games in ulster or leinster vs team given a bye to the semi in munster

benjyyy (Donegal) - Posts: 1450 - 19/06/2013 10:52:36    1410495

This problem goes back to the year 1111 when the county borders were arranged, so it's been knocking around for a while.

commercials1 (Limerick) - Posts: 115 - 19/06/2013 10:58:43    1410504

I agree- the back door should be scrapped! I never agreed with it in first place- yes it gives weaker counties another bite, but the bigger picture is that it just gives the stronger counties a better chance of winning sam!
Look at how many traditionally stronger teams have won sam from back door! Once stronger teams know they have the safety net of back door, and they come up against a big provincial rival, the intensity of championship football is lost, and sometimes even play weaker teams to utilize panel for further down the line. Not to mention momentum gathered from playing back door games every week.

And the worst of it is, football is for the most part pretty awful to watch the last 10 years, since armagh and tyrone introduced the blanket defense tactic, and kildare their handpassing game before that, and now with donegal and mayo perfecting the blanket defense and their cynical tackling the last few years. I can't believe people paid €80-odd to attend that final!

4 points to immediately improve football:

1. get rid of back door, and at worst, bring back tommy murphy cup, or some kind of alternative (possibly keep provincials and then do a tennis style seeded knockout format based on provincial campaign. but, although this means more intercounty games, clubs will probably suffer)
2. reduce consecutive hand passes to 3-4, like amount of steps running with ball in hand. this should reduce 14 men behind ball and make a more open, freeflowing game
3. ban free kicks going backwards, and frees at goal taken off ground
4. reduce amount of intercounty training to maybe twice a week, as football is more about fitness and strength than skill these days

ps i like the above idea of 2 championships- 1 for division 1&2, and another for 3&4, AS WELL AS provincials, which would put more importance on league at same time, but sure weaker teams won't want that either

beansycpn (Down) - Posts: 128 - 19/06/2013 11:28:27    1410532

If you look at this year's Qualifiers, Tyrone apart, there are no big guns in it yet (even in Rd.2). It's a great chance for a couple of lesser teams to get on a bit of a roll with a few victories & who know where it might take them? To say the Qualifiers have only benefitted the strong counties is wrong. I do think the system could be tweaked a bit but tt the end of the day you still want the best 4 teams in the country in the All-Ireland semi-finals & that more or less is what happens now as opposed to the pre-back door days.

keeper7 (Longford) - Posts: 4105 - 19/06/2013 11:31:34    1410537

I agree a change is needed but not the champ lge version,i dont see why a team after losing 2 games would want a 3rd...Plus a 2nd tier competition would not work.

Regarding playing rules i think they are OK at the moment the only rule change i would like is only the midfielders allowed inside the 45's during a kick out,That would force teams to hold the positions and open the game up,It would also be easily implenmented by the refs

shea (Kerry) - Posts: 409 - 19/06/2013 11:53:48    1410558

There is good and bad to the qualifiers. The atmosphere at a Cork Kerry Munster final is nothing like it was pre backdoor. If it is played in Cork the Kerry terrace is usually about 10% full.

I wonder would could intertwining the league with the championship be looked at again? Make the championship straight knock out like the old days but by reaching the league final a county would reenter the championship at quarter / semi final stage.. I haven't fleshed this out and it and it would need detail around issues like what if the league final teams were still i the championship, impact on club games with intercounty league games running through out the summer..

It wouldn't be quiet a back door but county teams would be playing at the right time of the year and there would be a chance for all to reenter the championship. It would also create some value to the league. Jimmy McGuinness would have to have taken it more seriously if there were 3 league games played before their game with Tyrone to ensure they would have a plan B if they slipped up.

What do you reckon, have I solved all the GAA's problems!!

dahayeser (Cork) - Posts: 386 - 19/06/2013 11:55:19    1410559

That's an interesting idea. I was wondering about starting the championship halfway through the league & subsequently running them concurrently like a soccer season. It would mean the intercounty season is shorter but more compact leaving more allotted time for clubs. Would it solve a lot of fixture issues & result in more emphasis on the league?

keeper7 (Longford) - Posts: 4105 - 19/06/2013 12:53:59    1410643

im sure if they do come up with something and whatever it is, there will be people opposed to it, so just leave it alone, i dont see anything whatsoever wrong with it at the moment, every counties time will come..... eventually.

loyal82royal (Meath) - Posts: 260 - 19/06/2013 13:05:59    1410664