The championship is lob-sided. However no matter what the format there is always the possibility of weaker teams coming up against stronger teams.

As far as I would be concerned, what we saw in Killarney today is a Tipperary problem, not a GAA problem.

Former_Poster (Meath) - Posts: 394 - 26/05/2013 19:33:47    1391803

Former_Poster
County: Meath
Posts: 4

As far as I would be concerned, what we saw in Killarney today is a Tipperary problem, not a GAA problem.

Disagree completely, the empty seats tell its own story, that should never have been shown on TV. We all like "giant killing" but what where the odds on a Kerry win? A farce of a game and a farce of a competiton

arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4968 - 26/05/2013 20:22:39    1391888

There's still a place for provincial championships. Look at Eamon O'Hara, I don't think he'd have got his All-Star and as much recognition if it was for his provincial title win. Many players from other counties have made names for themselves as well in provincial championships. It's still a realistic goal for a lot of county, much more so than an All-Ireland. I'd disagree with doing away with them.

The opportunity is there a congress if counties want change. Tyrone and Dublin wanted provincial winners meet in a champions round with winners going to the semis and losers to the quarters where only two qualifiers would come through. They didn't get much support for that. I've been of the opinion early round qualifiers should go provincial based. Munster has 6 counties, Leinster - 11, Ulster - 9 and Connuaght+London - 6. The qualifiers could be structured that all provinces have half their counties represented in the last 16, i.e. either provincial finals or in qualifier round 3.

Munster: With 2 provincial finalists, the other 4 should play-off - 1 in Qualifier Round 3.
Connaught: With 2 provincial finalists, the other 4 should play-off - 1 in Qualifier Round 3.
Ulster: With 2 provincial finalists, 6 should play-off - 2 in Qualifier Round 3.
Leinster: With 2 provincial finalists, 9 counties and Ulster preliminary round loser should play-off - 4 in Qualifier Round 3.

In Munster for example, the loser of Kerry v Waterford would take on the quarter-final loser from the other side of the draw Limerick, in qualifier 1. The loser of Cork v Clare would take on Tipperary. The two qualifier 1 winners then would meet in the next round to earn a place in round 3.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 9798 - 26/05/2013 20:30:50    1391906

Arock - Can I ask do you think the same of the Leinster Championship?

westkerry (Kerry) - Posts: 1250 - 26/05/2013 20:31:43    1391909

[ b]westkerry
County: Kerry
Posts: 251

1391909 Arock - Can I ask do you think the same of the Leinster Championship?

To be honest i think its the interest in the games and the odds of an upset in Munster thats the problem also.
Dublin could very well win leinster but the potential of a Dublin v Kildare and Meath v Louth has interest in it.
The underdog story is a very good part of the championship, london today and to a lesser degree louth and wicklow
were tipped to lose.
Meath beat Kildare last year when everyone tipped Kildare and we only got over the line against Meath.
2011 we needed a point at the end to beat Kildare. we were lucky against wexford the record books might show we have won so many leinsters but they were close . 2010 we werent even in the final. when is the last time cork and kerry both werent in the Munsterfinal.
Its not Cork or Kerrys fault ye can only beat whats in front of you , but waterford next whats the interest in that gonna be like.

AthCliath (Dublin) - Posts: 4347 - 26/05/2013 20:54:34    1391951

How dare anyone compare Munster to leinster, over the last 20 odd years the winners of leinster have included Dublin meath offaly kildare laois Westmeath and both wexford and louth cab count themselves unlucky not to have won it.
The leinster championship means something unlike the cork /kerry borefest and the mayo /galway one the same. Apples and oranges lads, leinster and Ulster still have the odd upset and I bet both kildare and meath see themselves as potential winners this year as im sure does louth after today.
Better get rid of the south and west ones, but leave the real ones alone.
Rant over

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 26/05/2013 21:02:51    1391971

Athcliath,

Very good points,

I suppose from my point there is something special about a Munster final
in Killarney
I know its the same for hurlers in Thurles come Munster Final day.

Id hate to lose that,

One final point they have been Trying to solve the hurling structures for some time in both league
and championship, I don't know if that has worked.

westkerry (Kerry) - Posts: 1250 - 26/05/2013 21:05:00    1391979

Royaldunne sorry but that's my point,

Weaker counties have won Leinster, why could that not happen in Munster?

Yes its hard to imagine at the moment but if the right structures/focus was put in place why would it not be possible.

It's 15 lads at the end of the day look what McGuinness achieved with a team that had achieved nothing for 20 years
Within 2 years the were All Ireland champions.

westkerry (Kerry) - Posts: 1250 - 26/05/2013 21:16:16    1391997

AthCliath
Its not Cork or Kerrys fault ye can only beat whats in front of you , but waterford next whats the interest in that gonna be like.

You've got the part about it not being Kerry's fault right anyways. RTE in fairness should not have been showing the game today. We're talking division 1 county v division 4 county. Another game should have been in the spotlight. It's still not a reason to scrap provincial championships.
Something which should be looked at again is seeding. I wouldn't say it should be set in stone that Kerry and Cork are kept apart but what should happen is the previous year's provincial finalists are kept apart and drawn in opposite semi-finals.

One thing I'd say today is, Round 1 of the qualifiers should be seeded based on league placings. Tyrone lost out to Donegal today. I don't think it's fair that they could be drawn against Division 1 opposition in their round 1 qualifier. The 16 round 1 qualifiers should be split into two pots. Pot A with the top 8 based on league placings and Pot B with the lower 8 based on league placings. This would bring more balance to the championship. Tyrone can lament Kerry only had to beat Tipperary today but if Tyrone were likely to meet Tipperary or some team similar in their next game, there would be more fairness in that.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 9798 - 26/05/2013 21:18:29    1391998

Westkerry my apologies if i took you up wrong.
Yes I agree structures havr to be put in place. The Munster championship is on its last legs im afraid if ir continues as it is. Perhaps the tip team of all ire minor glory will come through and put up a decent challenge to the big two, that im afraid is its only hope in the near future.

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 26/05/2013 21:28:05    1392021

It's not beyond the bounds of possibility that London could now reach the Connacht Final. Bloody hell!!!!!!

MuckrossHead (Donegal) - Posts: 5030 - 26/05/2013 21:42:01    1392049

MuckrossHead
County: Donegal
Posts: 1260

1392049
It's not beyond the bounds of possibility that London could now reach the Connacht Final. Bloody hell!!!!!!


Eng-er-land Eng-er-land...

realdub (Dublin) - Posts: 8821 - 26/05/2013 21:49:27    1392067

westkerry
County: Kerry
Posts: 254

1391997 Royaldunne sorry but that's my point,

Weaker counties have won Leinster, why could that not happen in Munster?

Yes its hard to imagine at the moment but if the right structures/focus was put in place why would it not be possible.

It's 15 lads at the end of the day look what McGuinness achieved with a team that had achieved nothing for 20 years
Within 2 years the were All Ireland champions.

I can see first hand in Dublin what affect on the hurling team players picking the football has as regards young lads coming through.
Tipp and Limerick , Clare and Waterford are in the same boat with players picking hurling and these counties have less players to choose from .(Cork obviously the exception)
JIM MC GUINNESS while i agree has done an unbelievable job doesnt have to worry about losing players to hurling. its a big ask to win munster for these teams.

Its a huge ask to believe anyone other than kerry or cork

AthCliath (Dublin) - Posts: 4347 - 26/05/2013 21:51:43    1392071

Athcliath yes I agree 100%,

It's a tradition of losing, growing up watching your county team losing.

Massive difference if you grow up in Dublin or Kerry you believe you will win.

A young lad in Tipp what's he going to think a hammering in football or a few medals in hurling?

You need someone to make them believe they can win just like Jim McGuiness did.

It's development in the county, and not restructuring the format to suit weaker teams.

westkerry (Kerry) - Posts: 1250 - 26/05/2013 22:04:18    1392087

What were RTE doing showing Kerry v Tipperary live they should have picked a Leinster Championship match.

Byanthon (Tyrone) - Posts: 1800 - 27/05/2013 08:07:16    1392091

I'm not saying that the Munster championship is a farce or anything but apart from Clare in 92 the last team other than Cork or Kerry to win it was Tipp back in ....wait for it......1935.
Now lads you can't defend that now, can you?

northpole (Derry) - Posts: 739 - 27/05/2013 11:02:46    1392243

Scrap the championships, have an All Ireland league with 3 or 4 divisions. Each team plays each other home and away, have quarters, semis and finals. Run it from Easter to September. 2 relegated, 2 promoted. Poor games disappear, weaker teams have something to aim for and every ones a winner.

Chops (Westmeath) - Posts: 910 - 27/05/2013 11:49:18    1392298

27/05/2013 11:49:18
Chops
Scrap the championships, have an All Ireland league with 3 or 4 divisions. Each team plays each other home and away, have quarters, semis and finals. Run it from Easter to September. 2 relegated, 2 promoted. Poor games disappear, weaker teams have something to aim for and every ones a winner.
Nice idea but the provincial championships should be kept.
Straight knock out and no replays. All over in a month
Don't see any way at all that your proposal would happen
Poor games wouldn't disappear with your proposal

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 27/05/2013 11:55:05    1392304

Chops
County: Westmeath
Posts: 394

1392298
Scrap the championships, have an All Ireland league with 3 or 4 divisions. Each team plays each other home and away, have quarters, semis and finals. Run it from Easter to September. 2 relegated, 2 promoted. Poor games disappear, weaker teams have something to aim for and every ones a winner.

---

Totally agree. The current setup is a daft. For example when Wateford are between next week by Kerry they will automatically go into round 3 of the Qualifiers because they got to the Semi Final of their province without playing a match. Meanwhile Cavan have already beaten Armagh, but if they lose the next day out they will go into round 1 of the Qualifiers. Daft.

If the reason for keeping the Provincial Championships is the crowds lets see how many turn up to watch Kerry v Waterford.

tyroneed (Tyrone) - Posts: 753 - 27/05/2013 13:54:34    1392487

Some good points all round. Might I add that I was disappointed with the Kerry-Tipp result, in fact; considering that the Kerry team haven't done much (by their standards) in the last while, I thought it would be a much closer game. But ya, as someone said, Donegal had a complete turnaround in 20 years; Tipp's U-21 (I think) team are going good, so hopefully some of that team will produce the goods at senior level over the year. And it's true, Kerry vs Carlow/Leitrim/London/Antrim/etc would maybe have gone the same way. You can't dismiss the provincial system on one or two hammerings (but you can when it comes to numbers of teams in each, which is crazy).

Tacaí Liatroma (Leitrim) - Posts: 1310 - 27/05/2013 14:30:33    1392538