Michael Duignan has called for 8 teams to be in 1A and 1B in tonight's League Sunday with 2 up and 2 down between the divisions. He reckons relegation from a division of 6 is unfair but if you're the bottom 2 in a division of 8 it's more fairer. Giving a bit more detail on his preferred format, he reckons 1st and 2nd 1B should take on 3rd and 4th 1A in the league's quarter-finals.

We all have different opinions. I think he's made a fair shout. If it was brought in next year for example, I'm sure Wexford and Offaly wouldn't be too pleased being in 1B but at the same time, if they were both automatically promoted by finishing in the top 2 they'd be happy enough. Secondly instead of playing each other in a 1B final, I'm sure they'll much prefer taking on the 3rd and 4th teams of 1A in the league's quarter-finals.

Fair play Duignan, it's a good call!

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 9813 - 14/04/2013 21:35:15    1367666

This is basically the system that was in place through the 80's - the divisions were just called 1 and 2 instead of 1A and 1B. I am all in favour of it. While it was great that this year's league was so competitive, it is ridiculous that the outcome of the last puck of the ball in the final game can make the difference between a team reaching the playoffs or being relegated.

Gaillimh_Abu (Galway) - Posts: 1052 - 14/04/2013 22:01:44    1367695

All in favour!....In what other league in the world can you lose just two games and immediately the 'R' word is mentioned!
Ridiculous situation!

Regards,

Snufalufagus....Laochra Gael

Snufalufagus (Dublin) - Posts: 8100 - 15/04/2013 09:51:57    1367735

As a Cork person, I am happy to take our beating. We were the worst team in the league. We only won one game in 6. That said, we only lost two as well. We drew three games after 70 minutes (lost yesterday AET) Kilkenny, Tipperary and Galway also lost two games and one of them could win it (Dublin are there too of course). I think there is something wrong with the structure when you are relegated after losing the same amount of games as the winners of the competition.

bennybunny (Cork) - Posts: 3917 - 15/04/2013 10:20:24    1367761

Divison 1

Tipperary
Kilkenny
Galway
Waterford
Clare
Cork
Limerick
Dublin

Top 4 into Semi's

Bottom side relegated,2nd from bottom promotion/Relegation play off v Div 2 runner up

Div 2

Offaly
Wexford
Antrim
Carlow
Laois
Westmeath
Kerry
Derry

Top 2 play-off for league title,Winner gets Promoted,Runner up in Promotion/Relegation Play-Off

Bottom Side relegated


6 team Div 3,4,5
1 up and Down in each of these

shea (Kerry) - Posts: 409 - 15/04/2013 10:37:29    1367769

If they are going to go with 8 teams in 1a then I think they need to scrap 1b and make it division 2. Put the top 8 teams in Division 1.

Kilkenny
Tipp
Cork
Galway
Clare
Limerick
Waterford
Dublin

and then have the other divisions broke into 6 so division 2 could be

Antrim
Carlow
Wexford
Offaly
Laois
Westmeath

And so on.

Only problem is with this system is that whoever gets relegated from division 1 will more than likely go straight back up with the team going up the first year going straight back down.

I would leave it as it is. It's the most competitive we've ever seen it. Back in the 80's and 90's no County took the league seriously, it was just used to give lads a run who wouldn't even make the Championship panel. Winter hurlers we used to call them. Now that teams are finally taking it seriously everyone is crying to change it again. Notice that the only teams that want it changed are the teams that are either in relegation in 1a or who are playing in 1b.

Faithfull (Offaly) - Posts: 573 - 15/04/2013 10:37:38    1367770

I would be all in favor of returning to the old system of 8 teams per division if the stronger counties didn't then devalue the competition by experimenting and using it simply as preparation for the championship. The last thing any supporter wants to hear after their team losing is the manager explaining how they are focusing on the championship and are in the middle of heavy training or something of the sort at the moment. If the league isn't taken seriously and games aren't do or die supporters lose interest. Look at the difference between attendances for league and championship. Many supporters have no interest in the league simply because many of the top teams and management display an apathy towards the competition. Whats the point in supporting your county team in a league match if you're not sure that they're taking the competition seriously and often get dished up a halfhearted display which is supposed to pass as entertainment. The league in its present format, while cruel in some respects,is fiercely competitive at least because teams have to fight tooth and nail simply to stay in their division. This may eventually entice supporters to come out and support their team more which is what we should be aiming for.

kerryhound (Kerry) - Posts: 37 - 15/04/2013 10:42:58    1367778

Why not let any team due to play for the senior All-Ireland play in a 12 team division 1. 12 team Division 2, 12 team Division 3. If as Davy Fitz suggested you start the league at the start of February and run until the end of May all counties would get plenty of games.

Byanthon (Tyrone) - Posts: 1800 - 15/04/2013 10:49:40    1367783

They change it so often that noone will be happy. Wexford and Offaly will be the losers no matter what happens but I don't think either can claim they are good enough to be in the top 8. We were unfortunate that we were in div 1 the last time they restructured the league and then were put into 1B.

gaafarmer (Wexford) - Posts: 280 - 15/04/2013 10:55:06    1367794

I agree with kerryhound completely. Davy Fitz just wants 10-12 teams in the group so Clare will have a few handy games and never be relegated. Like I said in another thread, divisions are set up so each team in the team are at a similar standard. If you put 10-12 teams in one group there would be too many pointless games.

An idea could be for the stronger counties to enter 2 teams into the league. For example, Kilkenny, Cork, Tipp, Galway etc could easily field their intermediate teams in divisions 2 and 3 etc. They would give the likes of Carlow, Laois, Westmeath and even ourselves extremely tough games and this would help them a lot more than playing and been hammered by the top teams. I actually think this would be a great idea and would make the lower divisions a lot more appealing and stronger too. A Kilkenny and Cork intermediate team would take fair beating in division 2. They may bot be strong enough to win it out but they wouldn't be too easy beat either.

Faithfull (Offaly) - Posts: 573 - 15/04/2013 11:59:53    1367851

I agree faithfull,completely.Never before as far as I know has the league conjured up such emotion among teams who were relegated/promoted.The way it is now on hurling the league is fast and furious and there is something at stake for every game,which can only be good for the competition.
Okay,teams get relegated but that's life,Sport is about failure as well as success.
People say that an 8/10 team league would benefit counties like limerick,but I guarantee that it wouldn't.In that situation where all the top teams are ringfenced together and there is no risk the league would be meaningless,and teams would treat matches like glorified frendlies, and NO team will improve under these circumstances.

joncarter (Galway) - Posts: 2692 - 15/04/2013 12:47:32    1367907

When you hear a manager now saying: "Hurling needs Cork/Dublin/Limerick/Wexford/Offaly etc, in the first division.", what he is really saying is that his team should NEVER under any circumstances be relegated :-)

hurlingdub (Dublin) - Posts: 6978 - 15/04/2013 12:58:04    1367917

So far this has been the best hurling in years and years. Counties are now taking it very seriously and thats all down to the current format. Divisions 1A and 1B are now very competitive thanks to the great format in place at the monent. Corcaigh are going down because they are not good enough and Limerick are not going up because they are not good enough. The GAA should be applauded for this. A great competitive league thanks be to the new format. Is that not whjat we all wanted.

Culann (Dublin) - Posts: 2306 - 15/04/2013 13:44:59    1367975

hurlingdub
County: Dublin
Posts: 4363

1367917 When you hear a manager now saying: "Hurling needs Cork/Dublin/Limerick/Wexford/Offaly etc, in the first division.", what he is really saying is that his team should NEVER under any circumstances be relegated :-)

Very true.

Culann (Dublin) - Posts: 2306 - 15/04/2013 13:48:34    1367982

Gaillimh_Abu
County: Galway
Posts: 401

1367695 This is basically the system that was in place through the 80's - the divisions were just called 1 and 2 instead of 1A and 1B. I am all in favour of it. While it was great that this year's league was so competitive, it is ridiculous that the outcome of the last puck of the ball in the final game can make the difference between a team reaching the playoffs or being relegated.

Thats why it was so competitive,
everybody wants competitive hurling in the league and now thats what you have.now people want it changed even though they admit its doing what it was supposed to do. forget about the reasoning of how many games ye win or lose to stay up its the same for everyone.if its a bigger league a few early wins for top counties and then dead rubber games that help no one,

AthCliath (Dublin) - Posts: 4347 - 15/04/2013 14:06:40    1368015

It is working fairly well. The quarter finals idea is a bit mad when you think about it. The first team in 1A will more than likely destroy the fourth team in 1B, so what is the point of that other than soothing the wounded feelings of a team in 1B which is not good enought to be playing in 1A in the first place! Next weekend's game between Tipp and ourselves will be interesting as an indication of how close 1B teams are. I would be slightly fearful that Dublin will be found out.

hurlingdub (Dublin) - Posts: 6978 - 15/04/2013 14:22:03    1368037

Michael Duignan calls for 8 teams in 1A

he seems to only care about the top divisions?
if its not true, did he saying anything when they decided to change the format a few years ago?

kerryluck (Kerry) - Posts: 2517 - 15/04/2013 14:28:37    1368044

I understand why people are saying that this 6 team league is competitive. I also agree that Cork were the worst team and, as the rule states, we deserve to be relegated. As JBM states, we will take our medicine (though it remains to be seen if our county board will accept this) and all genuine Cork supporters agree with him.

Getting back to the competitiveness issue. I don't think that the sport is competitive. The league and championship are not competitive. For all this talk about it being a great league, second string KK and Tipp teams finished top-boringly predictable. Cork hammered Tipp in the opening game. If we were that bad, then obviously Tipp were not taking that game very seriously (which kind of eliminates the myth that every game in a 6 team league is do or die). Tipp obviously knew that defeat would be fine as they would definitely pick up points elsewhere.

The reality is there are few new teams coming to the fore in hurling. Dublin were on the verge but got relegated last year (be interesting to see how they fair for the remainder of the year). The reality is former top teams are getting weaker (Wexford, Offaly and now Cork). Dublin deserve their promotion, no question, but in the interest of the sport, Cork should be kept in Division 1.

Call it arrogance or whatever, but when we dish out 20 or 30 point hammerings to Laois and Antrim next year (and that is very likely to happen), nobody will win (metaphorically speaking).

bennybunny (Cork) - Posts: 3917 - 15/04/2013 15:02:16    1368071

bennybunny
County: Cork
Posts: 1647


Call it arrogance or whatever, but when we dish out 20 or 30 point hammerings to Laois and Antrim next year (and that is very likely to happen), nobody will win (metaphorically speaking).

That's fair enough Benny but i'd doubt you'll be giving out 20/30 poibnt hammerings to Wexford, Offaly or Limerick and I don't see Wexford or Offaly giving out 20/30 point hammerings to Antrim or Laois.

Weford and Offaly are not good enough for division 1A but are good enough to beat the best teams in division 1B (Cork and Limerick)on their day just as Antrim and Laois would give Offaly and Wexford a game on their day.

If Cork want to play the best they have to beat the best and they didn't do that this year. Some people (and I am not saying you) will never be happy with the format no matter what kind of a format it is. It is impossible to please every one on this issue. The current format is creating good competitive games that we have not seen in the league for a long long time. So it should be welcomed.

Another alternative would be to srcap the league and just have a three month Championship in the summer but i'd doubt asnyone would want that!

Culann (Dublin) - Posts: 2306 - 15/04/2013 15:13:20    1368084

if there was 8 team div 1 a, and some team like cork finished in bottom, he will be calling for 10 team div 1a then

kerryluck (Kerry) - Posts: 2517 - 15/04/2013 15:25:35    1368099