Every failed NHL format has been enslaved to the need of every team playing all of the others. While this is only fair in a pure league(e.g Premier League, no playoffs),the NHL doesn't have to be so restrictive - the knockout winner from multiple teams is champ !


While viewing the tables on the "Home" screen, I offer three options:

a) 12 teams, 6 games, 1 league table - Top three seeds in 1A and three bottom seeds of 1B play the "Middle Six". After six games for each, top 8 of 12 enter knockout, played under Christy Ring Cup format (top 4, 2 chances). Bottom 4 of 12 & Top 4 Div 2 in similar KO.

b) 12 teams, 8 games, 1 league table - Divide the 12 into Top four, Bottom four and Middle four. Each quartet plays another quartet exclusively at home and the third quartet away. After eight games for each, top 8 of 12 and bottom 4 of 12 play KOs as in Option 1.

c) 10 teams, 6 games, 1 league table - Seeds 1,2,3,8,9 and 10 plays the Middle four (4,5,6 and 7); and to complete six games, Top 3 play a round robin as does the Bottom 3. This time, six teams for the KO - top 4 with two chances; losers plays 5th & 6th in QFs.


My idea has four advantages: 1) Expansion of Div One, without need for game schedule change.
2) League positioning is less distortive due to increase in play-off teams and games.
3) Lower risk of one-sided games as strongest and weakest teams are kept apart.
4) Promotion has to be "earned-their-way-up" by making last four of Promo/ Relagation playoffs.

Which of the three options would you support ?

omahant (USA) - Posts: 3442 - 10/04/2013 17:56:28    1365065

Weren't there a couple of other similar threads started recently?

I appreciate anyone taking the time to think about hurling's league and championship structures, because it does need to be discussed. And while no league format is going to be simple, all the above options are just way too complicated. Or at least they seem complicated to me, maybe others feel differently.

Marlon_JD (Tipperary) - Posts: 1823 - 10/04/2013 18:51:44    1365124

Some amount of trolling going on with all these threads being started. I wouldn't mind but posts are filtered before being put up on the forum.

The formats outlined are over the top. The league is preparation for the championship.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 9800 - 10/04/2013 19:57:55    1365179

To legendzxix -

A bit of head in the samd there - I'm trying to improve things - I know your position (1,2,3 in 1A with 1st in 1B; and 6 vs 2,3,4 etc) on this topic - I don't believe a part round-robin is either unfair or too complicated to understand, and should be approved in some format - it gives more teams more competitive games without loading up the schedule - you don't agree ?

omahant (USA) - Posts: 3442 - 10/04/2013 20:19:38    1365195

Are you preparing this to put to congress? Have you seen Padraic Duffy's comments? When turkeys are voting for Christmas as I've mentioned already, it's hard to believe they'll do anything proactive.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 9800 - 10/04/2013 21:23:35    1365253

It does not matter what they do as whoever loses out will complain anyway! There is a need for consistency so I'd rather see them leave it as it is for a few years rather than come up with some other plan next year. The notion being floated by some that there should be some sort of permanent Division One of ten teams - the current 1A plus Dubs, LImerick, Offaly, Wexford - is absurd and makes a joke of what a league is supposed to be about - ie, winning and relegation!

hurlingdub (Dublin) - Posts: 6978 - 11/04/2013 08:36:07    1365335

neither, 8, 8, 6, 6 7.
there is already a thread on this?

kerryluck (Kerry) - Posts: 2517 - 11/04/2013 10:04:45    1365392

Would have preferred 8 at the time we survived relegation on the last day....but think this years league was great with competitive matches throughout the league and came down to the last game.do we want more dead-rubber games?
My only complaint is it finishes too early.2 months before another competitive game is too long.
But one other thing.if clare beat cork,you can bet your bottom dollar the league will be re-structured to suit them.

perfect10 (Wexford) - Posts: 3929 - 11/04/2013 15:42:27    1365845

To Perfect 10 -

I don't see too dead rubbers in plan - Top Six/ Bottom Four all to play for if the games are limited to 6 or 8 per team -

Don't you think they should start afresh with a blank piece of paper and answer the two basic q's -
1) how many teams included in Div One - 10 or 12 I'd say, to include as manay as can be quasi-competitive; and
2) how may regular games - 6 or 8 I'd say - to keep short and tense like now, but the net is thrown wider in giving more teams a shot at the title, and teh avoidance of strong v weak to limit blowouts - what could be better ?

omahant (USA) - Posts: 3442 - 11/04/2013 17:06:46    1365992

Dead rubber games are talked up too much. They are still games to be won and in terms of the league it's going to happen in the next round but sure it's another game to build towards the championship.

Bit of a gap alright. An advantage earned for counties in the knock-out rounds to get a few more competitive games. Hopefully other counties can use some of the time to get clubs games played.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 9800 - 11/04/2013 17:09:55    1366000

So, as was pointed out by another poster on a previous thread, quarter finals are being introduced for next year. So 4 teams from 1A and 4 teams from 1B will qualify for the qf's. To clarify, out of a group of 6, 4 teams qualify for quarter finals. Make sense? of course not.

So, while I've warmed to the 6 team group set-up we've enjoyed this year, what made this years league enjoyable and exciting is being nullified, comically so, for next years league. I think any league format, any number of teams in a division, any number of group combinations we can come up with it, its all a waste of time, because it will ultimately be reduced to a joke, just like the current system is about to be.

Marlon_JD (Tipperary) - Posts: 1823 - 11/04/2013 18:40:06    1366130

Ah, don't be so harsh on the turkeys who've voted for Christmas! They wanted to guarantee all division 1 teams a 6th game be they in the A group or B group.

1A this year: 1. Tipperary, 2. Kilkenny, 3. Galway, 4. Waterford, 5. Cork, 6. Clare
1B this year: 1. Limerick, 2. Dublin, 3. Offaly, 4. Wexford, 5. Antrim, 6. Carlow

If next year's format was in play this year:
Limerick would be promoted to 1A already.

The division 1 quarter-finals will have been:
Tipperary v Wexford
Kilkenny v Offaly
Galway v Dublin
Waterford v Limerick

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I think they should have tweaked it this way:
1st/2nd/3rd 1A and 1st 1B in semi-finals:
Tipperary v Limerick
Kilkenny v Galway

6th 1A and 2nd/3rd/4th 1B into a 1A play-off first round:
Clare v Wexford
Dublin v Offaly

The winner of the first round 1A play-off go on take on 4th/5th 1A in a final round play-off:
Waterford v Dublin/Offaly
Cork v Clare/Wexford

The two final 1A play-off winners would join the 4 semi-finalist in 1A in the following year. The benefit of this is the potential of more movement between the 1A and 1B groups depending on the strenght of teams any given year. Any number between 1 to 3 counties could switch between the two groups.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 9800 - 11/04/2013 22:00:56    1366314

They should just leave the league alone. This year is the first year the league has been exciting down to the last day. What's the point in ourselves and wexford been up in division 1 getting hammered in every match just so we can make up 2 groups to keep the relagated 1A teams happy. Does no good to no one. Having Limerick and Dublin in our group will help us along, as was having Offaly and Wexford in the group help Carlow and Antrim along. Divisions are in place to ensure that teams play teams of a similar standard, if you are too good for that standard you will go up, if you are not good enough you will go down.

Faithfull (Offaly) - Posts: 573 - 12/04/2013 09:38:16    1366344

I would totally agree with you Faithful. There was article in Examiner the other day in which former Cork player was already contemplating an appeal against Cork being relegated if they lose to Clare. But .... and this is the funny thing ...., that he didn't think there would be the same uproar if it was Clare! I'd imagine Davy Fitz will be reading this out on Sunday :-)

hurlingdub (Dublin) - Posts: 6978 - 12/04/2013 09:54:24    1366356

Leave it the way it is. Dinision 1A was brilliant this year so far and division 1B was also competitive enough. It gave the Offalys, Wexfords and Antrims the chance to compete with the Dublins and Limericks and it gave the Craklows and Westmeath's the chances to compete with the Offalys and Wexfords.

No matter what the GAA do reagrding this they are going to be critisised. Personally I think the league fornmat is brilliant the way it is. If you do not want to play division 1B make sure you win your games. If you don't win your games you obviously are not good enough to be there. What do people want? A league where there is no relegation or promotion??

Culann (Dublin) - Posts: 2306 - 12/04/2013 10:02:18    1366360

can anyone make a suggestion that doesn't just suit the big teams, nearly all the suggestions seems to be aimed at keeping the big teams at the top

kerryluck (Kerry) - Posts: 2517 - 12/04/2013 10:05:51    1366362

Faithfull/hurlingdub/cualann I agree with you,the league was great this year and no hidings or dead-rubber games,which would inevitably be the case in 2 groups of 8....if you create too many quarter finals etc the first load of games dont matter and you end up with teams choosing to win/lose games based on quarter final opponents.
leave it alone but as I said above,if Cork are beaten and relegated it will be changed regardless of what the rest of us think.

perfect10 (Wexford) - Posts: 3929 - 12/04/2013 11:51:25    1366453

if some cork people think they shouldn't get relegated if they loose to clare, kerry and dublin should never be relegated in football either

kerryluck (Kerry) - Posts: 2517 - 12/04/2013 11:59:57    1366463

John Meyler now saying that neither Carlow or Antrim should be relegated.

The logic of all this of course is that we replace the leagues with a series of meaningless challenge matches. And you make a good point Kerry in regard to football. I have never heard any county say that they should not be relegated! Getting to be a bit of a joke at this stage. Browne also said in Examiner that Dublin complained over being relegated last year. No such thing. Never said a word. And never had over decades of going up and down regularly. If it's good enough for Dublin and Antrim and Laois and Westmeath and Kerry and Down then its good enough for everyone else.

hurlingdub (Dublin) - Posts: 6978 - 12/04/2013 13:23:04    1366540

can anyone make a suggestion that doesn't just suit the big teams, nearly all the suggestions seems to be aimed at keeping the big teams at the top

I agree to the extent of counties like Kerry, Westmeath, Laois, Carlow. Every opportunity to have them improve by playing Kilkenny Tipp etc is needed. Counties who are further behind would be lost in groups containing the ig counties and would have no benefit. How to do it? Go back to 2 groups of 9. Openly drawn with perhaps the 2 finalist from the previos year seperated. So you could end up for example

Group A: Kilkenny, Laois, Cork, Antrim, Dublin, Westmeath, Waterford, Carlow X
Group B: Limerick, Clare, Offaly, Wexford, Kerry, Tipp, Galway X X

8 games of which the bigger teams will have a few againt each other and the weaker teams every game is a lesson. Top 4 from each in to The quarteRs. Therefore it takes 10 league games to win the league AND THE WEAKER COUNTIES GET GAMES THAT BRING THEM ON

Brianmac78 (Dublin) - Posts: 1168 - 12/04/2013 13:38:57    1366554