I would add that most Tyrone fans in my experience are dead on and very decent but the All Ireland wins seemed to have brought out a certain arrogance in some of them and that was definately on display that day in Clones from a Tyrone element; it was if Antrim had no right to be there. Having said that we also had a bluebag brigade there too who were just intent on drinking and annoying others; as I say I hate this element is increasing and very offputting for families.

Ulsterman (Antrim) - Posts: 9816 - 23/10/2012 18:45:39    1287252

I'm not sure what the point of this thread is exactly but this kind of behaviour is symptomatic of wider society, nothing to do with the GAA. All the association can do is ensure they severely deal with these incidents as they occur. Bar a well-known incident in an International Rules match and an incident with a Dublin county official and Jason Sherlock both a good few years ago they have done that very well. At Congress in 2009, rule 1.12 of the Official Guide was amended to state that "any conduct by deed, word or gesture of a sectarian or racist nature against any player, official, spectator or anyone else, in the course of activities organised by the Association, shall be deemed to have discredited the Association". They are launching initiatives at club level to be inclusive. What more can they reallistically do? All in all I would say the GAA are trying their best to be a positive influence on society in this regard.

Either way generally I think there's a broad casual racism in Ireland in terms of speech, comments and jokes but I think there's very few people who would treat people differently in life or work based on their race, nationality or creed. I'm not saying that kind of talk is acceptable but there's no need to over react and state that the country is worse than it is either.

doublehop (Kildare) - Posts: 4172 - 23/10/2012 19:23:58    1287282

Fair point doublehop in fact I would extend that to Northern society too where casual sectarianism in the workplace and environment is the norm. I am in a mixed workplace and it's a real battle sometimes to stop saying certain things in case it offends others OR indeed taking too much offence at what someone says. In many cases it is political correctness gone mad but at the same time you have to be very careful. Many people where I work take offence at the GAA full stop but that's just pure. bigotry in my own opinion.

Ulsterman (Antrim) - Posts: 9816 - 23/10/2012 19:37:21    1287293

Don't agree Ulsterman and I'm quite taken aback by the choice of words which are bordering offensive.
Yes Tyrone have an element so do other counties. Success brings bangwagon jumpers some from Tyrone (Though I believe Tyrone's support was more vocifeorus and passionate before we won an AI) and some from other counties such as Antrim and specifically a large number who travelled to Clones that day.
Of course you are going to get "Soccer this" when groups of young lads tanked up start soccer chants. Some of it was funny such as "There's no Sam in Tyrone" who were actually AI holders at the time '09. For genuine Antrim fans abuse is unwarranted but it was a day out for a lot of the young lads..not something I object to as any way Gaelic games is brought to people not of that tradition is fine with me.
Be careful though with generalisations based on one-off ocassions as this is the food of Racists.

Tyronetim (Tyrone) - Posts: 1254 - 24/10/2012 13:04:23    1287524

Just came across this video today and have to say what a wonderful little segment it is, very relevant to this thread:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9rYYwbPFFI&feature=player_embedded

"Coolock based community television channel Near TV made this short video talking to Dublin's immigrant community about the GAA.

Made in one day, 27th of April 2012, on the streets of Dublin. Some questions were asked to Dublin's immigrant community on Gaelic Games.

Made as part of the National Media Encounter of the MARS programme -- Media against Racism in Sports "

doublehop (Kildare) - Posts: 4172 - 25/10/2012 14:22:25    1288144

ANTRIM Ulsterman
"Tyrone have a particularly odious, arrogant element amongst their support too as was witnessed by Antrim people at the Ulster final a few years back but there are good and bad everywhere."


Antrim have a particularly odious, arrogant element representing them on hoganstand,
as is regularly witnessed by hoganstand members, but, there are good and bad everywhere!'

TheGateKeeper (Tyrone) - Posts: 2843 - 25/10/2012 19:47:30    1288391

Interesting to hear Lee Chin on the radio saying he gets far more racist abuse playing GAA than he does playing soccer

bad.monkey (USA) - Posts: 4649 - 06/11/2012 20:19:51    1293752

joncarter abovemade a good point. This country has undergone a seismic change and while people are discomfted by it, there is nothing like the violence and hostility that has occured in other places.

Our thing, GAA, is actually a huge force for good in that respect. And I think that Irish people no matter what mad stuff they might say among people they know about Nigerians or Poles or culchies or Dubs or nordies actually treat individuals pretty fairly.

Ulsterman also made some good points but you have to dissaciate the small number of drunken eijits that associate with county teams in the Summer - and we ALL have them - from the majority of good people. Unfortunately the messing we see at games reflects a general decline in respect for people. I recall years ago that even the most obnoxious Dub fans could be told to shut up and have some manners. Thankfully that element has by and large disappeared with the end of the Celtic Tiger bandwagon.

hurlingdub (Dublin) - Posts: 6978 - 06/11/2012 21:41:07    1293820

hurlingdub
County: Dublin
Posts: 4222
Unfortunately the messing we see at games reflects a general decline in respect for people.

That is sadly so true, but it needs to be put in the context too of mentors who encourage their players to "mess with the head" of opposing players.

We have all heard and read about outragous wind up's - dreadful things said to opposing players just to get them sent off. This is the context and culture - ironically charges of racism is what may end this archaic practise.

arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4953 - 07/11/2012 09:09:32    1293846

True enough arock. It should be no more acceptable to slag a player over a recently dead relative (happened to a Wexford player in big game a few years ago) than over their race. That was one of the contradictions in the Terry case.

hurlingdub (Dublin) - Posts: 6978 - 07/11/2012 14:41:24    1294089

Just listened to that there. Shocking stuff:

http://media.newstalk.ie/listenback/22/tuesday/2/popup
(Skip the news and it's 4-5mins in...)

doublehop (Kildare) - Posts: 4172 - 07/11/2012 16:01:06    1294150

doublehop
County: Kildare
----------------------------------------

That was a pretty bleak interview, the guy sounds pretty downhearted, its appalling that he's had to endure such treatment. Its good that he's raising the profile of the issue though, I hope he perseveres. I stopped listening shortly after Lee's interview, but I didn't hear anyone raise the issue of general abuse during GAA matches, and I think really that context has to be mentioned. While racist abuse is the absolute worst, if you have an environment where abuse is used as a tactic, all forms of abuse will eventually be visited. The GAA is no more, or less, racist than any other sporting organization. However, it is more tolerant of general abuse/sledging and disrespect, and if the rascist abuse issue isn't tackled as part of the bigger problem, it won't be fixed.

Marlon_JD (Tipperary) - Posts: 1823 - 07/11/2012 19:05:56    1294302

Yeah I would agree with you there but there's plenty of sledging in rugby and cricket and everyone seems to know that racist abuse is going way too far.

Chin shouldn't have to be in a position where he has to become the poster boy for this campaign though. I'm sure he'd be far more happy keeping his head down and playing. While I sang the GAA's praises up above I have to say that interview really opened my eyes. If this kind of abuse is reported to a ref from an official then it has to be a red card straight away. And giving two months also seems to be far too lenient. The GAA has an opportunity to act quickly here and put this issue to bed straight away. There can be no excuse for county delegates not to support Wexford's motion to put these penalties in place.

doublehop (Kildare) - Posts: 4172 - 07/11/2012 19:19:45    1294316

thanks for posting that link. very interesting. anyone who deliberately tries to racially abuse any other human needs to be treated with contempt. even if this is a member of your own family. I know that alot of people have racist tendencies and we will never stop that but what we can stop is racial abuse in all its forms and for that to happen we need legislation to punish the offenders and make sure that they are seen to be punished. it won't stop the perpetrators from being racist in their outlook but it will ensure that we can all go about our daily lives without fear of being targeted and abused .

s goldrick (Cavan) - Posts: 5520 - 07/11/2012 19:51:00    1294355

as mentioned above, and in the interview, it seems that the 2 guys in Wexford got the minimum ban possible when they got 8 weeks which i for one find disappointing. It was a chance to set a precedent in these sort of things and make people think twice about doing it.

As for the red card situation, unfortunately i just see that as the rules not catching up with the reality of the situation. as Chin himself said he often heard it during matches but would never tell anyone and i'm sure he wasn't the only one. I don't think there was a realisation of how widespread it was until this particular story broke. As a side-issue, it does also demonstrate that many players and fans of the GAA are not particularly clear on many of the rules that govern our games, although that is an issue for another thread.

as it stands the rules simply have "foul and abusive language towards an opponent" as a catch-all rule and the penalty is a yellow card (the same offence towards the referee is a red card). The situation where the guys got yellow cards and then got suspended under the different rule seems to be a case of the referee going totally by the book and then the county board stepping in to handle the aftermatch. i'm sure there are some referees who would issue the red card first and ask questions later, as such (unfortunately i'm sure there are also refs who would ignore the whole thing).

game.on.now.ger (Galway) - Posts: 423 - 07/11/2012 20:14:13    1294366

Sad to see this has reared it's ugly head yet again, Aaron Cunningham subjected to racist abuse from both players and from the crowd. What is wrong with these morons. It is being widely reported in the media today, time for strong punishments ftom thr GAA not another mere slap on the wrist

bad.monkey (USA) - Posts: 4649 - 03/12/2012 13:36:16    1305726

Disgusting all right, be nterestign to see if the ref heard it, its in his report, if he did then there can be no shirking this one.

arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4953 - 03/12/2012 14:13:52    1305756

If the ref heard it, should he not have taken immediate action ?
Let's wait for the facts to be established.

artisan (Down) - Posts: 1794 - 03/12/2012 14:18:32    1305760

heard plenty of inappropriate comments/language coming from the crowd on tg4 yesterday.............the referee was the subject of it when he red carded the first cross player...........

Gammy_Knee (USA) - Posts: 1482 - 03/12/2012 14:27:05    1305770

artisan
County: Down
Posts: 1257

1305760 If the ref heard it, should he not have taken immediate action ?
Let's wait for the facts to be established.

Do you believe aaron cunningham and his father?

Tom1916 (Armagh) - Posts: 2001 - 03/12/2012 14:40:51    1305783