If you build an identikit stadium on the outskirts of a town you end up with what has happened in England down the years and look a like plastic stadia cropping up.

I'd hate to see a stadium that's outside Dungannon for example with nothing around it. It'd have as much appeal or charm as a Tesco or a dunnes stores.

Samsforthehills (Donegal) - Posts: 1075 - 18/10/2012 18:37:44    1285197

Oclan
County: Antrim
Posts: 2

I don't think anyone is reading your posts, its like a done deal, finito, no more, end of........................look forward to going to the New Casement. The GAA needs a thriving vibrant Belfast.

arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4954 - 18/10/2012 18:45:10    1285202

The chances of a major incident occuring at a GAA event are slimmer than Kate Moss but I suppose in this day and age it's always taken into account when stadiums are being planned. As plenty of posters have said, Clones has never had any incidents of a serious nature.

dubupnorth (Dublin) - Posts: 1897 - 18/10/2012 19:31:44    1285224

Tir Conaill Abu
County: Donegal
Posts: 446


The benefits of having the ground in Omagh for example but could be anywhere in Mid ulster:
Fairer travel distances to all Ulster counties.
Would hold more games than in Belfast as its more convenient to more counties.
Better atmosphere pre and post game.

Before anyone jumps down my throat on the atmosphere thing, I've lived in Belfast for a number of years and went to Casement to games. I know that if an Ulster championship match was in Casement I wouldn't be going up early to have a few pints and soak up the atmosphere like in Clones and I certainly wouldn't be looking forward to the prospect of travelling through the whole of NI to get to Belfast for an Ulster Final in the middle of July during marching season. Ofcourse the Antrim people will be delighted to hear the news about this investment but I can also imagine the crying that would be done if the Ulster Council decided to pump millions into Letterkenny to house the Ulster Finals from now on. People from Down, Armagh, Antrim would be complaining about the distances they are asked to travel. At least in Letterkenny the atmosphere would be terrific.

Like it or not our opinions will mater for nothing. The decision is made and Casement is getting the money but after a few seasons I can see people pining to have the Ulster Final back in Clones as it just isn't the same in Belfast and the new sparkling Casement will be the biggest white elephant in Ulster!!

Agree completely

srb (Antrim) - Posts: 344 - 18/10/2012 20:00:40    1285235

lufty
County: Antrim
Posts: 70

1285177 If you build it on the outskirts of the New Dual carriageway then you take the crowds away from the center of Omagh, which will be good for parking and access. Where then are all the places that are going to provide the prematch entertainment close to the ground if you are parked on the outskirts, this was one of the major drawbacks of the Maze Stadium plans as you needed to build bars and restaurants as well as a stadium.

Well the suggestion of placing the stadium near the Dual carriageway was an answer access problems for 40,000 people. Now Omagh is a large town, but its no New york city, nor is Dungannon. A stadium between the dual carriageway and the town itself would be no major walking distance.
You would have to sacrifice easy stadium access/parking for easy pub access though. The addition of an in stadium bar could be an option, like the Canal bar in Croker.

Look for the record, I have no objection to Antrim/Belfast having a top class GAA stadium. And I am in favour of Casement park being upgraded, and even more in favour of GAA being pushed in Belfast in a big way.
But I was annoyed when i heard it is to be the furture home of Ulster GAA, thus home of future Ulster finals and Semi finals. If for example Derry are playing Donegal in the Ulster final, both sets of fans will have to travel to Belfast that weekend.
Imagine Donegal v Cavan in Semi final 1, and Tyrone v Fermanagh in Semi final 2. It would be unfair for their fans to have to travel to Belfast to watch these games. Donegal fans may not have one single home championship game in 2013, as their opening game with Tyrone is looking like it will be moved to a larger venue.

Could we develope Casement and build a new stadium in West Ulster? I think £30 million would build a fair size stadium in fairness.

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3026 - 19/10/2012 09:09:53    1285328

dubupnorth
County: Dublin
Posts: 1817

1285224 The chances of a major incident occuring at a GAA event are slimmer than Kate Moss but I suppose in this day and age it's always taken into account when stadiums are being planned. As plenty of posters have said, Clones has never had any incidents of a serious nature.

Large scale crowd incidents are unlikely in GAA matches you would think, but the recent ground surveys show the GAA still takes the potential issue very seriously.
Thus why they have reduced ground capacity's this year.
There is always room for improvement when it comes to crowd safety. Be it entering the ground, while in the ground or leaving the ground. I personally have no Idea what is currently required in terms of medical support at GAA grounds for Ulster matches. Like how many ambulances etc are at the ground and how many medical staff are on hand.

Maybe you could shed some light on this from your own career experience?

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3026 - 19/10/2012 09:23:56    1285331

Was in Clones twice in the 90's and it sure was'nt easy to get into.

Was in Casement Park once in 90's when it was still fairly basic.

Can see the merits of the various arguments but still believe that Ulster GAA should have a strong presence in Belfast City and to this end should have a decent stadium there.

Muilleann (Tipperary) - Posts: 114 - 19/10/2012 09:32:35    1285335

GaryMc82
Let clear up something, the new Stadium in Belfast will not be classed as the Home of Ulster Gaa and get every final, at no time have the Ulster Council ever said it was. They are stated that they will bring MORE games to the new rebuilt ground and that is all, the Home of Ulster Gaa is Market Street in Armagh as that is where all the power and decisions are taken.

lufty (Antrim) - Posts: 77 - 19/10/2012 13:07:36    1285463

Simple, Belfast.

MourneArmy (Down) - Posts: 1787 - 20/10/2012 20:44:21    1286033

19/10/2012 13:07:36
lufty
County: Antrim
Posts: 71

1285463 GaryMc82
Let clear up something, the new Stadium in Belfast will not be classed as the Home of Ulster Gaa and get every final, at no time have the Ulster Council ever said it was. They are stated that they will bring MORE games to the new rebuilt ground and that is all, the Home of Ulster Gaa is Market Street in Armagh as that is where all the power and decisions are taken.

lufty, your living in dream land if you think the GAA will construct a £60million stadium, and then NOT use it for every final and major crowd pullers.

Every Ulster final for the next 10-20 years will be held there, as will every Ulster SFC semi final and any other major revenue generating game.
From that point of view, it will essentially be the home of the Ulster senior football championship until a better stadium is built elsewhere.

I have stated previously that i am in favour of Casement being upgraded and refurbished, and Gaelic games getting a welcomed push in Belfast city.
My own issue is with the fact that a city location was selected above a central location.
Sure many fans travel to Croke Park for the big games in the All Ireland series, League finals, club championship final's etc. But for major provincial games, I think many would favour a shorter Journey. Two or three big trips to Croker per year ( 3 hours + travel each way ) is grand when your county is enroute to an All Ireland title. But im sure many favour a shorter Journey for the earlier provincial rounds.

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3026 - 21/10/2012 19:14:47    1286254

I have to laugh at the sheer hypocrisy and total double standards of some of our fellow Ulster Gaels on here and their negativity towards Belfast. Many of them travel to the city EVERY day to work, and clog up the city centre for hours in the event, YET mention Casement and Belfast for the Ulster final or semi final and they stamp their feet like wee childer. A lot of Tyrone/Derry/Armagh Gaels don't mind coming to Belfast for their civil service management jobs but don't want to go there for GAA matches; many of these people just have a massive chip about Belfast full stop. Well get over it, Casement WILL be the MAJOR GAA ground in the MAJOR city in the Northern part of Ireland so stop yapping.

Ulsterman (Antrim) - Posts: 9818 - 21/10/2012 20:26:38    1286305

Ulsterman
County: Antrim
Posts: 5641

1286305 I have to laugh at the sheer hypocrisy and total double standards of some of our fellow Ulster Gaels on here and their negativity towards Belfast. Many of them travel to the city EVERY day to work, and clog up the city centre for hours in the event, YET mention Casement and Belfast for the Ulster final or semi final and they stamp their feet like wee childer. A lot of Tyrone/Derry/Armagh Gaels don't mind coming to Belfast for their civil service management jobs but don't want to go there for GAA matches; many of these people just have a massive chip about Belfast full stop. Well get over it, Casement WILL be the MAJOR GAA ground in the MAJOR city in the Northern part of Ireland so stop yapping.

Stop yapping?? Civil service management Jobs? People from outside Belfast clogging up the City centre? Your sounding a bit angry Ulsterman.

It has been clearly stated by this Ulster Gael that I have no Issue with Belfast City having a top class stadium. The Issue has been clearly stated to one of geography, and travel distance for the majority of Ulster Gaels. I stand by my comments fully.
Belfast is a class city, but is located in the extreme east of the province. When choosing to develope a stadium to stage Ulster's top games, I clearly stated a more central location should be selected.

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3026 - 21/10/2012 21:03:18    1286331

Ulsterman, Should Donegal people be expected to have to trek to Belfast for any marginally important Ulster Championship game in the future?

For god sake it takes me an hour to get to Ballybofey sure never mind having to go to the otherside of the country. I can appreciate why the GAA want a big stadium to raise the profile in a major urban hub however what is equally as important is taking into consideration the effort it would take for other counties to get there.

Samsforthehills (Donegal) - Posts: 1075 - 21/10/2012 21:47:14    1286359

So Gary should Croke Park be closed down and a new stadium built in Athlone because it is in the extreme east of the island and too far away for many? What is the diffence between Belfast and Dublin? Some people just love to moan if the game isn't in the next field. Let's face it many South Derry people give off because the county games are staged in Derry City, it doesn't matter where it is because some people are going to be inconvenienced wherever a game is staged. On a different not it's good that we are having a discussion about this because here's a wee story from yesterday's Irish News that gives us a reminder how it was in the not too distant past for Ulster Gaels:

IRISH NEWS STORY FROM OCTOBER 2OTH 1943:

The running of special trains from Belfast to Dublin for hurling and football matches was raised at Stormont yesterday. Dr George Dougan (Unionist, North Armagh) asked the Prime Minister if he would take steps to see that they were stopped immediately in order to save the coal supply.

People should now accept the new Casement and give the province a world class GAA stadium with facilities for all the family. I would add also that the community around the new Casement, Antrim county board and Ulster Council HAVE to unite to make this work and welcome everyone to it. Music, kids entertainment, face painting etc should be arranged to make it a day out and not just a few hours in and away. I totally accept that more could be done to make fans feel more wanted and welcome in the city.

Ulsterman (Antrim) - Posts: 9818 - 21/10/2012 21:48:59    1286361

Sam,

People in Wexford could say the same about Croker; Clare, Limerick and Waterford people could say the same about Thurles and Cork city. It's unfortunate but that's the way it is. Belfast is the biggest city in Ulster and needs a big GAA presence for Ulster finals and semi finals.

Ulsterman (Antrim) - Posts: 9818 - 21/10/2012 21:54:04    1286366

Samsforthehills
County: Donegal
Posts: 391

"Marginally important Ulster Championship games"!!! Awash with success and now the Ulster Championship games are marginally important. Obviously a bout of selective memory from your good self. I wonder what reaction you would get if you asked Jim McGuinness if he thought that any Ulster Championship game was marginally important?

To get back to the point though, I take on board the argument complaining about travel distances from the peripheral counties in Ulster but I still think it's a small price to pay. Unless the Architects and Engineers surprise us all and deliver a stadium on wheels for an annual GAA roadshow then i'm afraid we are stuck with it. I personally would have no problem going to Aran Island for a game if it meant that Antrim were appearing in the Ulster Final on a regular basis.

I also fully understand the concerns that the village lockdown atmosphere on the streets of Clones will be impossible to replicate in the City but then again I doubt anyone will miss the traffic jams for instance. This highlights that every location has it's good and bad points and that no matter how hard you try you can't please all the people all of the time. What is also obvious is that you can't please some of the people anytime. The atmosphere at the new stadium may not be the same (all guess work at present) but 40,000 voices at full volume during a nip and tuck final echoing down through the City will be some substitute. Personally I have never had cause to complain about the atmosphere at Croke Park, if a comparison can be drawn.

Sacrifices were always on the agenda. The bottom line is that it make obvious commercial sense for the GAA to have the new stadium in Belfast. Whether we like it or not the Association needs to look outside match days to keep the revenue flowing into the coffers and that was probably on the list of pros against the two cons which have been posted by the descentors on here. I know that fact won't suit everyone and lead to people stating that the "ordinary man" wasn't considered or consulted. I think it would be naive of any of us to think that due consideration wasn't given to all of the arguments on here. Everyone is entitled to their opinion but maybe we should reserve judgment until we have had the chance to sample the finished product. I bet you one thing now though, 150 mile round journeys and an hour or two on the road won't be keeping any of you away from it when your own county manage to get there.

GlensMan89 (Antrim) - Posts: 54 - 22/10/2012 11:14:33    1286435

GlensMan89

You are right in your observations. I and most Donegal people will no doubt travel to anywhere in Ulster to support our county team and hopefully will have to travel to Casement every year if it means we're making the finals. I don't think the atmosphere in Casement was ever in doubt, on Ulster Final day with a 30 - 40k in a new stadium the atmosphere will be great and the Ulster Council will need to up the ante in relation to generating the atmosphere both inside and especially outside the ground. The big screen was a great addition to this years final.

We all like to have a wee scowl about new things, myself included so I won't be making any more comments on this topic until I've sat in the finished article on Ulster Final day and sampled the new surroundings.

Tir Conaill Abu (Donegal) - Posts: 1677 - 22/10/2012 12:57:47    1286499

Ulsterman
County: Antrim
Posts: 5643

1286305 I have to laugh at the sheer hypocrisy and total double standards of some of our fellow Ulster Gaels on here and their negativity towards Belfast. Many of them travel to the city EVERY day to work, and clog up the city centre for hours in the event, YET mention Casement and Belfast for the Ulster final or semi final and they stamp their feet like wee childer. A lot of Tyrone/Derry/Armagh Gaels don't mind coming to Belfast for their civil service management jobs but don't want to go there for GAA matches; many of these people just have a massive chip about Belfast full stop. Well get over it, Casement WILL be the MAJOR GAA ground in the MAJOR city in the Northern part of Ireland so stop yapping.

Hold the horses there big yin. Clogging up the city centre? The bloody traffic jams area caused by idiots living in the greater Belfast area taking a car into the city centre when there is any amount of trains and buses often with the driver only. I work in Belfast every day, not through actual choice but because in their wisdom our politicians have conveniently ignored the Bain report regards decentralisation and have every public service job and what not in Belfast. Due to the Unionist culture of the past, there is no train service west of the Bann to keep the Taigs as far west as possible. The drive to Belfast does not bother me now that it is dual carriageway from Ballygawley, it is the fact that I can get to Lisburn in approx 50mins and then it takes me 1.30hrs to get across to the M3. I like Belfast as a city and I have no issues with Casement being redeveloped as it is a kip at the moment. The atmosphere is very poor at the minute both inside and outside the ground although maybe the design may increase the atmosphere inside. I wouldn't give a jot about getting and new ground in Omagh or redeveloping our own ground, I would prefer to have a hospital that is fit for purpose and built for the people of our area and not for the populations of Sligo and Cavan without disrespecting either.

omaghredhand (Tyrone) - Posts: 3656 - 22/10/2012 13:50:59    1286542

wise_guy
County: Tyrone
Posts: 1464

1285101 Yeah.. It's settled, Dungannon it is. No one I know likes travelling to Omagh for a game. Healy Park has no atmosphere and has a poor surface. The town is a nightmare to get around too. Casement Park is a good ground as it is and is easily accessible but there is poor parking, a lot of thieves and all the pubs are miles away.

Dungannon, served by good roads, has good GAA bars in the town. Not a massive town so it's easily got around and in and out of. It is the true county ground of Tyrone but having been ousted because of financial difficulties in the St Enda's club in Omagh and the weight of the county board being west Tyrone folk, O'Neill Park was passed up for redevelopment/relocation and has since deteriorated and could do with a much needed facelift and purpose!

No-one you know eh? The world doesn't revolve around East Tyrone and the Lough shore!! As for Omagh having a poor surface, catch yourself on. With the amount of games played on it the pitch is a credit. The week of the county semi final had rain fall of epic proportions yet Omagh was able to hold 6 games that week in addition to training. The roads in and out of Omagh are fine and it is no more than 35-45 minutes for supporters from ALL parts of the county. The access to O'Neill park is poor and the parking a hell of a lot worse. Furthermore can you advise what the nearest pub to O'neill park is? I also find it laughable about the traffic in the town. This is genrally because people do not understand the reason for a by pass. The amount of people who come from the A5 and go through the town to get to the Derry road is unreal and vice versa. Believe you me, the county ground as it is does not provide that much revenue and indeed has raised the costs of the club substantially. The CB obviously pay for a percentage of the upkeep and maintainence however it is not the cash cow you think it to be. As for atmosphere, the club finals had an excellent atmosphere at them.

omaghredhand (Tyrone) - Posts: 3656 - 22/10/2012 14:06:59    1286557

Ulsterman
County: Antrim
Posts: 5653

1286361 So Gary should Croke Park be closed down and a new stadium built in Athlone because it is in the extreme east of the island and too far away for many? What is the diffence between Belfast and Dublin? Some people just love to moan if the game isn't in the next field. Let's face it many South Derry people give off because the county games are staged in Derry City, it doesn't matter where it is because some people are going to be inconvenienced wherever a game is staged. On a different not it's good that we are having a discussion about this because here's a wee story from yesterday's Irish News that gives us a reminder how it was in the not too distant past for Ulster Gaels:

In an Ideal world, yes Athlone would geographically be the most suitable venue for Irelands largest Sports Stadium.

You have to ask yourself what really are the benefits of staging big GAA games in Dublin or Belfast. I can out of Clones and back on the open road in well under half the time it takes to leave Dublin. The vast majority of GAA fans do not stay over and travel home after games. So for that reason alone, we should consider the sensible options ahead of ego driven city option.

I live in Derry City, actually very near Celtic park. Is it the best possible location for the home of Derry GAA, I would have to say no.
Parking is brutally bad for large crowds and the Brandywell gets bigger crowds to Derry City games, than its neighbouring Celtic Park normally gets.
The ground should be in a more accessible location for the droves of Derry fans from around the county, who easily outnumber the fans from within the city.
Derry is Ireland's 4th biggest city after Dublin, Belfast and Cork. Did having Celtic park near the City centre help build a stronger GAA base in the City? No it didnt.

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3026 - 23/10/2012 20:11:04    1287307