Shocking red card decision from the ref.

No way on earth should the KK lad of gotten the line.

It's disappointing as Thomas' were there for the taking imo. Weren't particularly impressive in the last 10 mins when they had KK down to 13 players but couldn't push away from them would've been a different game but for the ref.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13833 - 19/03/2013 12:16:59    1351899

Ailteoir. He was not play acting. He had blood pouring down his face. Clearly seen from my seat.

David111 (Tipperary) - Posts: 2 - 19/03/2013 12:22:20    1351904

@MesAmis - the referee had a shocker alright but not in the way you describe. The amount of times he let K-K away with pulling the faceguard of Thomas' players was ridiculous, the most blatant one on Bernard Burke near the end by John Grogan. Different game but for the ref? With just 2 players managing to score, K-K can only blame themselves.

Ailteoir (Galway) - Posts: 921 - 19/03/2013 14:18:29    1352006

Ailteor

I've read your comments re the ref in previous posts and think you're quite biased in your opinion.

The referee made other mistakes beside the first red card I thought but none as costly. You raised the issue of holding face guards which I certainly didn't think was only perpetrated by one team.

The sending off was an awful bad call and had a huge affect on the outcome unfortunately. Judging how poorly Thomas' performed in the last 10/15 mins against only 13 KK players I very much doubt that they could of beaten KK if the Offaly Champs were at their full complement.

It's in that context that I'd kinda agree with you that in a way KK have only themselves to blame. Thomas' were quite poor I felt and there for the taking but the sendings off gave Thomas' the break they needed to win. Even if KK had managed to keep 14 on the field they may well have won it considering Thomas' inability to put 13 man KK away.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13833 - 19/03/2013 14:28:13    1352014

MesAmis - when it comes to your claims of bias, pot, kettle and black come to mind. Like I said, with only 2 players contributing, K-K [or you for that matter] can't blame the referee. Thomas' had half a dozen who did so. As for your claim that K-K may well have won with 14 on the field - well, they failed to score for the last 20 minutes, so that's some claim to be making.

Ailteoir (Galway) - Posts: 921 - 19/03/2013 14:48:56    1352030

God there is some amount of rubbish being spoken mainly by Leinster contributors. For the records St Thomas's scored 1 - 9 from play by 6 different players whereas KK only scored 1 - 1 from play by 1 player. Also some of the frees awarded to KK were of the extremely soft variety whereas Thomas's hardly got any simple frees and several head high dangerous challenges by KK went unpunished. The Thomas's manager John Burke was livid with the ref on the sideline and I could fully understand why. Bernard Burke had nearly his helmet and head ripped off him in the KK square when going through for goakl but no penalty or even a free was awarded! However I am glad they won the way they did as they had to battle from 2 points down (mainly through KK frees mostly of the soft variety) to score the last 4 points as well as creating many more chances to score than KK. Thomas's won by 2 points but they were at least a 6 - 8 point better team than KK if the ref had been doing his job correctly.

tommy k (Galway) - Posts: 3470 - 19/03/2013 15:35:11    1352072

Ailteoir
County: Galway
Posts: 360

1352030
MesAmis - when it comes to your claims of bias, pot, kettle and black come to mind. Like I said, with only 2 players contributing, K-K [or you for that matter] can't blame the referee. Thomas' had half a dozen who did so. As for your claim that K-K may well have won with 14 on the field - well, they failed to score for the last 20 minutes, so that's some claim to be making.

I've no connection of affiliation with Kiloughey-Kilcormac or Offaly and went to the game as a complete neutral.

I felt that the first sending off had a major impact on the game. Thomas' looked poor when they had been given a major boost with the unjust sending off of a KK player.

Yes KK failed to score when they were down to 13/14 men but at the same time Thomas' only managed to get themselves 2 points in front during those closing stages even with their big advantage.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13833 - 19/03/2013 16:13:13    1352103

tommy k
County: Galway
Posts: 1197

1352072
God there is some amount of rubbish being spoken mainly by Leinster contributors. For the records St Thomas's scored 1 - 9 from play by 6 different players whereas KK only scored 1 - 1 from play by 1 player. Also some of the frees awarded to KK were of the extremely soft variety whereas Thomas's hardly got any simple frees and several head high dangerous challenges by KK went unpunished. The Thomas's manager John Burke was livid with the ref on the sideline and I could fully understand why. Bernard Burke had nearly his helmet and head ripped off him in the KK square when going through for goakl but no penalty or even a free was awarded! However I am glad they won the way they did as they had to battle from 2 points down (mainly through KK frees mostly of the soft variety) to score the last 4 points as well as creating many more chances to score than KK. Thomas's won by 2 points but they were at least a 6 - 8 point better team than KK if the ref had been doing his job correctly.

Can't speak for other people but I was at the game as neutral, certainly wasn't supporting KK. I don't go to games as a neutral and just support a team that happens to be from my province. Even having a Dublin club in a club final doesn't guarentee my support.

The ref missed things for Thomas' no doubt but he also missed things for KK as well imo. The biggest of course being a terrible decision to reduce KK down to 14. It had a major impact on the closing stages and seeing as Thomas' weren't exactly very good in those closing stages against 13 it's very debatable whether they'd have won the game if they weren't given the intitive by a poor refereeing call.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13833 - 19/03/2013 16:18:11    1352115

The fact is MesAmis, that even with 15 men on the field, K-K only managed 1-1 from play. And Thomas' margin of victory would have been greater if the referee had awarded a penalty for the faceguard pull on Bernard Burke that I referred to earlier.

Ailteoir (Galway) - Posts: 921 - 19/03/2013 16:40:02    1352145

MesAmis I cannot understand how you think a team that just scored 1 - 1 from play by 1 player deserved to win the game as distinct from 1 - 9 from play by 6 different players! Most of the scores were taken well before the sendings off which happened late in the game. The 2 players sent off had deservedly picked up yellow cards before that and they were still reckless in their challenges despite that. If it was the Galway club that did that, I would certainly hold my hands up and admit they were second best on the day. I was watching the game also and if you look at a replay again, you may understand how the Thomas's manager and supporters were so exasperated with most of the decisions (which went against Thomas's and kept KK in the game) taken by the ref.

tommy k (Galway) - Posts: 3470 - 19/03/2013 16:51:09    1352159

Great game from 2 great teams. Could've gone either way. I thought that the straight was harsh & probably did have an impact on the game.

keeper7 (Longford) - Posts: 4088 - 19/03/2013 16:53:17    1352160

Tommy K agus Ailteor

Lads the spread of scorers has nothing to do with anything. If one player scores all the scores or it's spread about makes no odds when looking at this game.

My point is that it's very debatable whether or not Thomas' would've been good enough to beat KK if they weren't down to 13 seeing as they struggled badly to get away from KK even with their 2 man advantage.

You think that the ref was keeping KK in the game up until then but I don't see it that way. I think he gave KK as much as he gave Thomas' up until the sending off which changed the game dramatically in Thomas' favour imo.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13833 - 19/03/2013 17:05:34    1352172

What gets under my skin about refs is lack of consistency. Dont mind them being bad as long as they are equally bad for both!!
RED card for tap on the elbow by Offaly player.
YELLOW card for Lester Ryan Kilkenny 24 hrs later for exactly the same offence. Who would be a manager??

BreffniDub (None) - Posts: 377 - 19/03/2013 17:22:11    1352183

And my point MesAmis, is that if a team with 15 players can only score 1-1 from play, then to suggest that they would likely have gone on to win with 14 players isn't very realistic. If Thomas' were as poor as you state, then what does that say about K-K? And the spread of scores does mean a lot - when looking at this particular game, the ability to take scores made a big difference.

Ailteoir (Galway) - Posts: 921 - 19/03/2013 17:42:08    1352208

Congrats to St Thomas and commiserations to Kilcormac. Tough conditions to hurl in

Still amazes me how clubs from such small parishes can reach these heights a fantastic achievement.

It must be said Galway clubs record in the club all Ireland is outstanding. Must be a firece hard championship to win

Brianmac78 (Dublin) - Posts: 1168 - 19/03/2013 18:27:08    1352236

Ailteoir

I take your point but in saying that can you not see how if a team that barely stumbled over the line with a 2 man advantage then it's not unrealistic to think that they may not have stumblef over the line with only a one man advantage, or if they both had 15?

That's the point I'm making. Thomas' struggled badly at the end against 13, is very realistic to suggest that they would not have won without the 2 man advantage.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13833 - 19/03/2013 18:38:50    1352246

MesAmis Thomas's only scored 2 points from frees even though they deservIn contrast KK scored 7 points from frees many of the soft variety. Thomas's deserved at least the same amount (if not more) frees than KK but they were never given. Thomas's for most posters and people I have spoken to were much the better team. Yes they missed a lot of chances they would normally have taken but they created / scored much more than KK who only stayed in touch from the soft frees given by the ref. I would confidently predict Thomas's would win by 6 points plus if the 2 teams were to meet again and the ref was as fair to Thomas's as he was to KK.

tommy k (Galway) - Posts: 3470 - 19/03/2013 20:34:17    1352336

Cheers for that Brianmac78 - it makes a nice change to get congrats as distinct from some of the sour grapes and badmind that passes as "objective analysis" on this site a lot of the time. Yes Galway clubs have won 50% i.e. 11 of the last 22 Club Hurling AI's and have reached the finals in about another 4 during that time which is some record in fairness.

tommy k (Galway) - Posts: 3470 - 19/03/2013 20:42:45    1352341

Fair play to St Thomas's who have won the All Ireland. They played the more expansive hurling in very difficult conditions. It was amazing to see so many players struggle with the simple task of rising the ball .

I think both teams served up a great game considering the conditions. The spread of players who scored for Thomas ' was excellent. The loss of the FIRST KK player did have an effect on the game. Did he deserve to be sent off? That is the key question. Whether he did make a difference will never be known.

However I feel that it was very very harsh. It seemed or looked like a tap as opposed to a strike. There is a difference between the two! I read Danny Owens yesterday and he had a query regarding the first yellow card that the second KK player sent off recieved. The problem is that in this All Ireland final you saw one interpretation of the rule and in other games over the past 2 weeks you have seen very different interpretations.

I think that St Thomas were the better team on the day and I congratulate them for their win but it does leave a lot of people bemused at the first sending off. I believe that the tackle that resulted in the second sending off was deserved.

Overall the key thing is that 2 clubs played in their first Alll Ireland finals having won their first county titles - is that fantastic or what - for both clubs.
The club championships are gaining in prestige as the years pass.

carlowman (Carlow) - Posts: 1881 - 19/03/2013 21:50:18    1352391

Posters seek to delegitimise the victory over the ref? The second red was for an "assault"with a deadly weapon...this is not close to a tackle. The other sending off is another example of 2 yellows that were harsh. Players on a yellow often get a raw deal with a second one. The Galway boys deserved the victory.

maroondiesel (Mayo) - Posts: 1236 - 20/03/2013 09:49:07    1352434