Unless Tyrone can beat them , can't see anyone else in Ulster being capable of it, but again the hunger has to be there. Like Dublin this year, they could win the province but get caught in the AI quarter or semis.

ClassApart (Meath) - Posts: 1200 - 10/10/2012 21:27:57    1281417

ClassApart
County: Meath
Posts: 519

1281417 Unless Tyrone can beat them , can't see anyone else in Ulster being capable of it, but again the hunger has to be there. Like Dublin this year, they could win the province but get caught in the AI quarter or semis.

If Down made themselves more solid at the back, I think they would be a major force in Ulster football and would be capable of beating Donegal.
They really have the attacking ability, they just seem to have been wide open at the rear 2012.

Armagh could possibly beat them too, although i think the Orchard county are still lacking somewhat to be a direct threat to Donegal. Maybe Paul Grimley can turn them around and make them fearsome again. But i wouldnt go thinking they will dominate Donegal anytime in the next few seasons.


My Ulster team rankings for 2012

1. Donegal
2. Tyrone
3. Down
4. Armagh
5. Monaghan
6. Antrim
7. Cavan
8. Derry
9. Fermanagh

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3057 - 10/10/2012 21:59:14    1281447

Looking at a dublin gaa magazine from 1993, donegal were 25/1 to regain sam after 92 in one dublin bookmaker, show how much stronger they are this time around.

AthCliath (Dublin) - Posts: 4347 - 11/10/2012 20:14:44    1281896

what odds were they pre championship in 1992?

My list would be as follows

1. Donegal
2. Tyrone
3. Down
4. Armagh
5. Cavan
6. Monaghan
7. Antrim
8. Derry
9. Fermanagh

BettystownRoyal (Meath) - Posts: 3353 - 12/10/2012 16:14:13    1282237

Bettysroyal Donegal were in 5 ulster finals in a row from 89-93 so they were a serioius outfit. Lost an ulster final to Derry that should never have been played. Had they won that who knows but I think that there was definitely another All-Ireland in that team.

Samsforthehills (Donegal) - Posts: 1075 - 12/10/2012 16:45:37    1282257

Samsforthehills
County: Donegal
Posts: 374

1282257 Bettysroyal Donegal were in 5 ulster finals in a row from 89-93 so they were a serioius outfit. Lost an ulster final to Derry that should never have been played. Had they won that who knows but I think that there was definitely another All-Ireland in that team.

I would agree that Donegal were a serious outfit during that period. Not only contesting 5 Ulster finals on the trot, but they were in a few League finals too.

However it is worth noting that until Down won it 1991, there was a general feeling in Ulster that the top teams weren't good enough.
Martin McHugh noted during the legends Interview series, that Down's win made Donegal believe they had a shot after running Down close in 91.
I think the same applied to 1993, when Derry felt they had a good shot after Donegal and Down the previous 2 years.

That was the spring board for Armagh and Tyrone to push forward too, as Tyrone had unfinished business from 1995.

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3057 - 13/10/2012 13:23:30    1282476

Down will struggle in Celtic Park. I fancy Cavan to make it to the Ulster Final.

saulgael (Down) - Posts: 553 - 13/10/2012 13:43:38    1282482

saulgael
County: Down
Posts: 353

1282482 Down will struggle in Celtic Park. I fancy Cavan to make it to the Ulster Final.

If Down can sort out their defense, I think they could beat anybody and everybody. Their backline let them down badly this season, but with that in order they would be fantastic.
I think they will address the issue. As for Derry, McIver is a very good manager, but i think he will need some time to sort out his team and build the players into what he wants.

Still not sure about Cavan. I think they could do damage, and definitely could beat Armagh. If they beat Armagh then i wouldnt rule out an Ulster final appearance.
But whether or not they could beat one of the big guns is debatable, unlikely i think.

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3057 - 13/10/2012 14:05:19    1282490

As I see it the only ones who will stop Donegal will be themselves, in other words will they be able (and prepared) to put in the huge amount of training and hard running that brought them to winning this year's All Ireland. It must be very difficult to put in this level of work/commitment after you have achieved your goal of winning an All Ireland.

OntheWhiteSide (Kildare) - Posts: 452 - 13/10/2012 14:58:07    1282515

im astounded at all this talk of donegal. Tyrone played donegal last year in the semi final and got beaten by 3 points all here have to agree Tyrone fielded with probably 5 players absent who would be in Tyrones strongest 15 lets put the shoe on the other foot if donegal had lined out last year minus Murphy, McFadden and McBrierty would they have beaten tyrone i doubt it. Tyrone even with all the absentees still gave donegal there toughest game of the year why? because tyrones management had their tactics spot on its just a pity they didnt have all their first choice players available. Tyrone are in transition but i will be having a wager that we will turn over Donegal in the first round next year.

rahillyman (Tyrone) - Posts: 314 - 13/10/2012 15:30:50    1282535

i'd argue that it would be easier. they have been transformed into celebrities and took the county from a sorry depressed state into delirium. donegal being a big supporter of the irish soccer team was fairly down after the shocking euro's but the county team made them forget all their woes.

i's imagine seeing that first hand they will be more motivated than ever to do it again in the next 3 years.

BettystownRoyal (Meath) - Posts: 3353 - 13/10/2012 15:44:23    1282543

rahillyman
County: Tyrone
Posts: 87

1282535 im astounded at all this talk of donegal. Tyrone played donegal last year in the semi final and got beaten by 3 points all here have to agree Tyrone fielded with probably 5 players absent who would be in Tyrones strongest 15 lets put the shoe on the other foot if donegal had lined out last year minus Murphy, McFadden and McBrierty would they have beaten tyrone i doubt it. Tyrone even with all the absentees still gave donegal there toughest game of the year why? because tyrones management had their tactics spot on its just a pity they didnt have all their first choice players available. Tyrone are in transition but i will be having a wager that we will turn over Donegal in the first round next year.

Donegal are the 2012 All Ireland Champions, so don't be too astounded by all the talk of them.

Tyrone were beat by 2 points by Donegal ( Should have been 4/5 points ), and took a right lathering at the hands of Kerry 2 weeks later. They ran Donegal close, but lets not overhype the Tyrone absentees. Outside of Sean Cavanagh, Tyrone were hardly missing any Key All Ireland winning players ( 2008 is only 4 years ago, not that long in fairness ).
While Kyle Coney, Peter O'Neill etc are hot future prospects, they have yet to make proper names for themselves in Senior Intercounty championship football.
They have been hyped on playing well in the National league division 2, Murphy, McFadden ( and very much to a lesser extent McBrearty ) are known as SFC players who have mixed it with the best.

Tyrone have been unable to match the teams at the top level since 2008. Transition should take 2 or 3 years max with Tyrones underage setup, yet we are entering year 5 soon, and its still transition??
Serious questions need to be asked.
How is Ryan McMenamin still on the Tyrone squad??
How is Owen Mulligan still deemed to be one of Tyrone's best forwards in the entire county??
How can they run Donegal close, and then collapse against Kerry?
Is it blind loyalty to former All Ireland winners by the management that Ricey McMenamin is still playng county football at 36?

I'd save your wager, as Tyrone are simply too Inconsistant. If they make the much needed changes, then they will win again. Until then, they are just carrying too much weight.

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3057 - 14/10/2012 17:38:46    1282929

Mickey Harte's rebuilding Tyrone v a rebuilt Donegal in Donegal.
In Tyrone's favour - It will be Donegals 1st game of the championship and could be caught cold. Donegal have a very poor home record in recent years. Admittedly pre McGuinness. Will the insatiable hunger still be there for Donegal. If anyone can conjure up a winning formula v Donegal its Mickey Harte.

Still, It really is Donegals Ulster title to lose, Other than Tyrone, Down have gone backwards, Armagh are likely to be without the Cross contingent again which really does hamper them every pre season. No disrespect to the rest but they all have the look of also rans. Seven months before a championship ball is kicked and I just cant see Donegals Ulster title slipping.

ballybannongael (Down) - Posts: 547 - 15/10/2012 13:43:55    1283325

GerryMc82, Tyrone haven't been rebuilding since 2008. The clear out only really started after the end of the 2011 season. I agree with you about Mulligan and McMenamin too, and maybe that was the problem from 2009 onwards - that so many of the 2003/05/08 stars were still around but maybe not on merit. Tyrone were missing Justin McMahon, Cavanagh, Coney and Ronan O'Neill, all players who were earmarked with big roles the summer past. But thats in the past. Coney was Tyrones best player in the league and top scorer, and O'Neill is seen as the best young player in the county. I feel that with these players implemented back into the team next year Tyrone will improve as long as the effort is put in. Tyrone have introduced a lot of young players over the past season or two that are getting experience in senior football. The like of Darren McCurry, Ronan McNabb, Aidy McCrory, Peter Harte and Conor Clarke are all getting game time and look like great prospects.

geoff (Tyrone) - Posts: 377 - 16/10/2012 09:34:32    1283781

I agree. With the players that Tyrone have back they will be a tough nut to crack. I really like the look of the young full-back Clarke. He looked strong last year, didn't care for reputations and was well able to join the attack and take a score. What club does he play for?

Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 10364 - 16/10/2012 09:55:59    1283792

geoff
County: Tyrone
Posts: 176

1283781 GerryMc82, Tyrone haven't been rebuilding since 2008. The clear out only really started after the end of the 2011 season. I agree with you about Mulligan and McMenamin too, and maybe that was the problem from 2009 onwards - that so many of the 2003/05/08 stars were still around but maybe not on merit. Tyrone were missing Justin McMahon, Cavanagh, Coney and Ronan O'Neill, all players who were earmarked with big roles the summer past. But thats in the past. Coney was Tyrones best player in the league and top scorer, and O'Neill is seen as the best young player in the county. I feel that with these players implemented back into the team next year Tyrone will improve as long as the effort is put in. Tyrone have introduced a lot of young players over the past season or two that are getting experience in senior football. The like of Darren McCurry, Ronan McNabb, Aidy McCrory, Peter Harte and Conor Clarke are all getting game time and look like great prospects.

Since 2009 when Tyrone were beaten by Cork in the All Ireland SF, It was clear that Tyrone needed to replace some of their older players.
This was confirmed in 2010 with the loss to Dublin, and by 2011 the gap was now so wide that you would need to be blind not to notice it.
Players like Kyle Coney, O'Neill and the rest should have been starting 2 seasons ago, and should be the key players by now. Peter Harte is a class player, and will be a long time great player.

It is insulting to these younger players that Ricey McMenamin last season was better than them at 35/36 years of age, and was starting games ahead of them. McMenamin had been a great player down through the years, but there comes a point that no matter how hard you train, you simply can't get to the loose ball as quicker as a 24 year old your marking.

If Tyrone give these lads their chance and relegate all the older guys to the bench, they will be a great team again.

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3057 - 16/10/2012 17:20:15    1284105

GaryMc82
County: Derry
Posts: 297


Donegal are the 2012 All Ireland Champions, so don't be too astounded by all the talk of them.

Tyrone were beat by 2 points by Donegal ( Should have been 4/5 points ), and took a right lathering at the hands of Kerry 2 weeks later. They ran Donegal close, but lets not overhype the Tyrone absentees. Outside of Sean Cavanagh, Tyrone were hardly missing any Key All Ireland winning players ( 2008 is only 4 years ago, not that long in fairness ).
While Kyle Coney, Peter O'Neill etc are hot future prospects, they have yet to make proper names for themselves in Senior Intercounty championship football.
They have been hyped on playing well in the National league division 2, Murphy, McFadden ( and very much to a lesser extent McBrearty ) are known as SFC players who have mixed it with the best.

Tyrone have been unable to match the teams at the top level since 2008. Transition should take 2 or 3 years max with Tyrones underage setup, yet we are entering year 5 soon, and its still transition??
Serious questions need to be asked.
How is Ryan McMenamin still on the Tyrone squad??
How is Owen Mulligan still deemed to be one of Tyrone's best forwards in the entire county??
How can they run Donegal close, and then collapse against Kerry?
Is it blind loyalty to former All Ireland winners by the management that Ricey McMenamin is still playng county football at 36?

I'd save your wager, as Tyrone are simply too Inconsistant. If they make the much needed changes, then they will win again. Until then, they are just carrying too much weight.

I am aware that they won the All Ireland im not like a whole lot of others falling over themselves at the greatness of this Donegal team

your assumption that Tyrone should have beaten by 4/5 points can i ask what this is based on? your opinion i would guess from where i was watching the game Tyrone where denied a draw by the foot of the goalkeeper.
as for missing players i wasnt aware that the first choice players only counted if they had won an all ireland medal but by that score i think Justin McMahon would probably count as well
your questions on Ryan Mcmenamin are probably true but i was at both railway cup games and one of the best forwards on the pitch
in those games was Owen mulligan

you seem to have some serious issues with Ryan mcMenamin as you have mentioned him twice in your post as for saving my wager i dont think i need advice from a derry man whether i wish to place a wager or not i would have thought you have enough problems in your own county you should maybe try and sort them before coming on here spouting about whats wrong with Tyrone teams

rahillyman (Tyrone) - Posts: 314 - 17/10/2012 09:10:35    1284251

GaryMc82 I agree with everything in your latest post.

geoff (Tyrone) - Posts: 377 - 17/10/2012 12:17:38    1284329

rahillyman
County: Tyrone
Posts: 89

you seem to have some serious issues with Ryan mcMenamin as you have mentioned him twice in your post as for saving my wager i dont think i need advice from a derry man whether i wish to place a wager or not i would have thought you have enough problems in your own county you should maybe try and sort them before coming on here spouting about whats wrong with Tyrone teams

I was at the Tyrone v Donegal game, and is would have been an injustice had Tyrone got that goal. In the end the shot was saved, and Donegal should have won the game by at least another 2 points. Watching the two sides, i felt Donegal were slightly sharper.

I have no direct issue with Ryan McMenamin as a person. As a footballer, he isnt good enough to be playing for Tyrone anymore.
Tyrone keep saying they are rebuilding, well that will take a long time if you keep start players in their mid 30's when you supposedly have the best youth set up in Ireland. Conveyor belt of talent has been spouted a few times.

This is an open forum were we are free to discuss topics within the guidelines. I actually like seeing Tyrone do well and win All Irelands.

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3057 - 17/10/2012 18:31:54    1284593

not often i agree with a derryman but this time i have to concur with our learned friend from the smaller of the two sperrin giants. tyrone may have got close on the scoreboard but donegal were head and shoulders the better team and are fully deserved all ireland and back to back ulster champions. they are way ahead of tyrone in terms of legs and strength and youth. and how ricey conor gormley and even more worringly the injury prone stephen o neill is still in the panel is beyond me. mickey and the backroom are and have been stifling any progression of the youth in the county by holding on too long to last decades blueprint. time for major changes please

weebox (Tyrone) - Posts: 272 - 17/10/2012 20:59:31    1284708