There was an example of a soccer styled "professional foul" in the Munster Football Final on Sunday. The Clare forward was bearing down on goal for a one on one with the keeper when he was cynically fouled. The Cork player who committed the foul picked up a yellow card. Instead of a possible goal, Clare had to settle for a point from the resulting free. Is this rule as it stands fair? In soccer the player committing the foul would receive a red card. In rugby they have sinbins and also penalty tries. Is anything similar to this an option?

I've given this consideration myself but want to throw it out for discussion...

A red card would seem harsh in Gaelic, as would a penalty goal! Could a penalty be awarded for the foul full-stop regardless if it happens inside or outside the area?

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8965 - 10/07/2012 15:31:53    1213846

A red card would seem harsh in Gaelic, as would a penalty goal! Could a penalty be awarded for the foul full-stop regardless if it happens inside or outside the area?

The" Area" is a very soccer style term.

dhorse (Laois) - Posts: 11374 - 10/07/2012 15:43:55    1213878

Good Thread.

I believe the rule is too harsh in soccer as a mistimed poor challenge can result in a straight red where as anywhere else on the field it would be a free.

Your last point about a penalty being awarded for a professional foul is worth consideration.

The big crux of the matter I see is it will be all up to the referee and what will he interpret as a professional foul, thats why I guess any foul in soccer being the last man back professional or not results in a red.

Can you imagine Mc Stay rambling on about a professional foul

Southsham (Limerick) - Posts: 752 - 10/07/2012 15:49:37    1213891

A professional foul cannot occur in Gaelic as it is an amateur game...:-)

Lifford Gael (Donegal) - Posts: 1925 - 10/07/2012 15:50:31    1213896

10/07/2012 15:50:31
Lifford Gael
County: Donegal
Posts: 1323

1213896
A professional foul cannot occur in Gaelic as it is an amateur game...:-)

lol, I was waiting for that one!

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8965 - 10/07/2012 15:57:20    1213915

Seriously though legend, I think the idea of a sin bin for 10 minutes for such fouls is a good one... What happened on Sunday in the Cork Clare game was wrong...a probable goal for Clare resulted in just a point which in anyone's language is just not right...!

Lifford Gael (Donegal) - Posts: 1925 - 10/07/2012 16:03:17    1213922

If the advantage rule as in rugby was used the ref could let the play run on and if nothing came of it still go back and give the free, I know this would not solve all the cases but would certainly make it easier for refs

lillyboy (Kildare) - Posts: 429 - 10/07/2012 16:05:54    1213926

imagine if it was the last seconds of the game and your team are 2 points down and you are one-on-one with keeper and the defender cynically pulls yu down from behind. . i think he would even take a red card in that situation. i think a penalty would be the best option. but in all honesty would you trust the officials to make the right call. the can't even tell when someone is standing in the square before the ball is passed. they cant even tell when someone throws the ball over the line. i think the less rules the better as the officials are clearly not capable of interpreting or seeing the offence.

s goldrick (Cavan) - Posts: 5522 - 10/07/2012 16:08:41    1213929

Every rule is down to officials to implement. A penalty would seem to be best option.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8965 - 10/07/2012 20:32:16    1214195

The sin bin would be a good idea. On Sunday Cadogan knew at worst he would get a yellow and stop Clare from getting a goal.

moomoo (Kerry) - Posts: 4023 - 10/07/2012 21:51:55    1214266

Anyone know what a profl tackle is ?
I've struggled with this - as a defender, do you allow an attacker to run you over and score - or you do a rugby "tackle" and he scores from the free anyway ?

omahant (USA) - Posts: 3304 - 11/07/2012 11:48:43    1214463

goldrick
i think the less rules the better as the officials are clearly not capable of interpreting or seeing the offence.

why are the refs not up to scratch? Is it because the GAA can't afford to put them through the training the Soccer and Rugby refs go through?

BettystownRoyal (Meath) - Posts: 3353 - 11/07/2012 12:20:12    1214519

I like Lifford Gael's idea.

Firstly, I'd define what a professional foul is in GAA, like what area of the pitch, what does the foul entail, is it a tackle by a player when the attacker is between him & goal?

Then I'd like to see a sin bin system put in place to counteract such a foul.

slayer (Limerick) - Posts: 6480 - 11/07/2012 13:08:41    1214623

Wexford player throws Connolly on the ground.....Connolly stupidly punches Wexford player in the tummy......

Now heres the problem.....umpire sees whole incident.....

RESULT.....Connolly sees the line (rightly so).....Wexford player plays on, no booking (why not?)

Now imagine a ref having to make the "red card" decision for Clare against Cork. Now the refs "judgement" cant be trusted here! Because the following week something similar happens in another game and it ends with a free out!!! Refs are too inconsistent in GAA.

Another example of reffing in GAA.....hurling??? Lads are punching each other and whacking each other with hurls off the ball. How many sending offs on average in a hurling match. Yet a tip in the tummy is a red card in football. Its a minefield!!!

JayP (Dublin) - Posts: 1772 - 11/07/2012 13:49:18    1214693

I think a sin bin would be too soft. I know the term 'professional foul' is a soccer term, not sure what name we should give it in Gaelic? Essentially it's a situation where a player will be through one on one with the keeper and is fouled either by the keeper or a defender when there's no other covering player. The fairest punishment for denying a blatant goal scoring opportunity is a penalty. The point of this discussion is that if it's outside the large square, could a rule be brought in to reward a penalty for such a foul under such circumstances? The game needs goals. Fouls to stop it should be fair punishment.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8965 - 11/07/2012 15:01:20    1214828

JayP,

for the points you mention I think we should give the manager of each team the power to contest 2 decisions per game.

I think that would sort that out.

slayer (Limerick) - Posts: 6480 - 11/07/2012 15:50:43    1214882

11/07/2012 15:01:20
legendzxix
County: Kerry
Posts: 2129

1214828 I think a sin bin would be too soft. I know the term 'professional foul' is a soccer term, not sure what name we should give it in Gaelic? Essentially it's a situation where a player will be through one on one with the keeper and is fouled either by the keeper or a defender when there's no other covering player. The fairest punishment for denying a blatant goal scoring opportunity is a penalty. The point of this discussion is that if it's outside the large square, could a rule be brought in to reward a penalty for such a foul under such circumstances? The game needs goals. Fouls to stop it should be fair punishment.

A professional foul is a deliberate act of foul play, usually to prevent an opponent's scoring.
Why would you need a different name in Gaelic Football??

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 11/07/2012 15:59:04    1214896

JP the push on Connolly was fairly harmless and is completely different to a punch in the stomach. If you were to give bookings for small things like that then almost every player would get a yellow at some stage in the game.

I don't think giving a red card for a 'professional' foul in GAA would be proportionate to the foul committed. It's completely different to soccer as one goal can win a game for you as in GAA, a goal over the length of a game is easier to claw back with points.

The best suggestions so far are the penalty awarded or the sin bin, but as has been pointed out, would be down to the referees/umpires interpretation of the incident. This would most likely cause more controversy as referees are too inconsistent with present rules.

Whether a change is made or not you're still going to have human error and inconsistencies from game to game and from one referee to another.

NaomhAine (Wexford) - Posts: 96 - 11/07/2012 18:24:39    1215108

NaomhAine
County: Wexford

Man up there, he did not push Connolly, he grapped him aroung the neck and wrestled him to the ground.

Deserved at least a Yellow Card.

Back to the deliberate foul: a lot of them are done by forwards slowing the opposition when plays breaks down to allow the swarm take up their positions.

Are they any worse or better than the ones to stop a score ? They are certainly more deliberate as they are planned.

KELF (Kildare) - Posts: 775 - 11/07/2012 19:51:08    1215219

legendzxix
I think a sin bin would be too soft. I know the term 'professional foul' is a soccer term, not sure what name we should give it in Gaelic? Essentially it's a situation where a player will be through one on one with the keeper and is fouled either by the keeper or a defender when there's no other covering player. The fairest punishment for denying a blatant goal scoring opportunity is a penalty. The point of this discussion is that if it's outside the large square, could a rule be brought in to reward a penalty for such a foul under such circumstances? The game needs goals. Fouls to stop it should be fair punishment.

How is a sin bin too soft?
No a rule should not be brought in to penalise fouls outside the large square.

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 11/07/2012 21:08:11    1215337