It appears that there are many here on Hogan Stand, in the media and in general are trying to use this 'match' to stirr ' up a north v south agenda... which if it did exist i don't remember it growing up...

that is everything thats is wrong with this whole debate right there Cu chulainn

Liamwalkinstown (Dublin) - Posts: 8166 - 25/01/2012 13:56:26    1100111

Liam
I am old enough to remember your posts. Unfortunately some of my posts to comments made yesterday didn't get posted.
I see a Down produced a response contary to your view today as you tried t6o garner a "See everybody hates youse" approach.
I think in this case your views are subjective/unscientific with no substance..this notion that northerners are predisposed to violence..is notionful at best but most likely xenophobic. Making blanket statements is very dangerous and has fuelled this from your entry to the melee. Racists make these kinds of comments all the time to justify their hate filled minds.
Some credibilty would be gleened for you if you admit that both parties were at fault on the basis of the evidence available - not hearsay.
Derrytresk will likely be censured for their subs entering the fray but don't narrow the debate and turn a blind eye to what the Dromid players have done.
You can't detach what goes on the field entirely from this and say the only issue was the subs. The match and the melee are the main event and the spectators are inextricably linked to the event.
Until you detach yourself from your partiality that;'s exactly how will be seen

Tyronetim (Tyrone) - Posts: 1254 - 25/01/2012 13:58:14    1100113

cuchulainn35
County: Armagh
Posts: 415

The North V South Agenda has only been a recent development, due to success of Ulster teams. Its due to Ulster Teams going down to Croke Park and getting stuck into the Opposition. Kerry etc do not like the hard brand of football, they despise it and since Ulster teams play this way they have ill feelings for the Armagh, Tyrone ETC

cacsmckilly (Tyrone) - Posts: 1294 - 25/01/2012 14:00:01    1100116

Tyronetim, what was your name in years gone by? Have no recollection of you

For you to say i am racist, xenophobic etc is both offensive but also frankly laughable

The point I made was this

People who grew up in NI had to deal with a world us down south never experienced. You grew up in a country at war with itself. Us down south grew up sheltered from that reality and in comparison to lads in the North we have led pampered lives.
I just wondered aloud if this enviornment leads somebody to possibly being more likely to fly off the handle at perceived agression towards them than someone who grew up like me in South Dublin/West Limerick. I did not mean it in a generalistic sense, altho to be fair I can see how it could be perceived as such.

It was just a theory. Nothing more, nothing less. And to be fair, if it did offend you, then I genuinely apologise and withdraw it. It was never my intention.

Liamwalkinstown (Dublin) - Posts: 8166 - 25/01/2012 14:12:16    1100126

Floops
County: Dublin
Posts: 910

1100082 Breffni39
County: Cavan
Posts: 6738

"Park the violence for for a minute and maybe even try to acknowledge that there is another side to this story"

That maybe what you're trying to achieve for whatever warped reason, but the violence is the issue here - nothing more nothing less.

I wish it was, but it's plainly not. Most of it is about completely unfair generalisations of Tyrone and the North. I have no warped reason to do anything. It's almost embarrassing how much of a pacificist I am and I condemn all violence. I also condemn all you posters who are trying to wash their hands of the issue as if to say it's not our problem it's Tyrone's/The Norths. You'd need to be a blind man not to see this reading through this thread.

There is violence in sport everywhere in Ireland and the rest of the world.

NOBODY HERE IS ENTITLED TO THE MORAL HIGH GROUND. YOUR TEAM HAS BEEN INVOLVED IN VIOLENT EPISODES THAT YOU CANNOT BLAME ON TYRONE OR THE NORTH.

STOP TRYING TO SUGGEST THAT PEOPLE WHO DON'T HAVE THE SAME EXTREME OPINION AS YOU SOMEHOW CONDONE VIOLENCE.

Breffni40 (Cavan) - Posts: 12412 - 25/01/2012 14:17:23    1100129

the thing that bothers be the most from this incident is the seeminly growing hatred and bigotry for "northeners" from their southern counterparts..one just has to trawl through youtube, facebook and indeed this very site and look at some of the omments.. As a complete neutral, I have to say that both teams, judging from the video, are equally responsible for the melee, which itself was far less worse that countless other brawls iv witnessed on the football field. Whats even worse is that the popular media in the country are using this incident to stir this bigotry in the southern counties and the blind, as forever and always, will follow anything their told. I am not condoning anything that went on in that match, but I am disgusted with the one-sided, agenda-driven media reporting of the incident and many of the posters on these sites which for whatever reason have a chip on their shoulders.

fallout (Cavan) - Posts: 8 - 25/01/2012 14:21:01    1100134

Liamwalkinstown
County: Dublin
Posts: 2863

1100126 Tyronetim, what was your name in years gone by? Have no recollection of you

For you to say i am racist, xenophobic etc is both offensive but also frankly laughable

The point I made was this

People who grew up in NI had to deal with a world us down south never experienced. You grew up in a country at war with itself. Us down south grew up sheltered from that reality and in comparison to lads in the North we have led pampered lives.
I just wondered aloud if this enviornment leads somebody to possibly being more likely to fly off the handle at perceived agression towards them than someone who grew up like me in South Dublin/West Limerick. I did not mean it in a generalistic sense, altho to be fair I can see how it could be perceived as such.

It was just a theory. Nothing more, nothing less. And to be fair, if it did offend you, then I genuinely apologise and withdraw it. It was never my intention.


Laim - you might have a point there. I find that Southerners are generally the more open and friendly sort! NI folks can be slighty more mental, suspicious and aggressive. The troubles probably did create this mentality and it does persist today. Your theory is valid and at least deserves a debate.

cacsmckilly (Tyrone) - Posts: 1294 - 25/01/2012 14:27:51    1100138

This can happen and does happen anywhere at any match, we cant blame the Ulster teams, thats rediculous. Yes there are guys that need to be sorted based on the video evindence but that applies to any melee around the country. Ban them. But dont push this on to Ulster!

realdub (Dublin) - Posts: 8790 - 25/01/2012 14:27:56    1100139

cacsmckilly
County: Tyrone
Posts: 214

1100116
cuchulainn35
County: Armagh
Posts: 415

The North V South Agenda has only been a recent development, due to success of Ulster teams. Its due to Ulster Teams going down to Croke Park and getting stuck into the Opposition. Kerry etc do not like the hard brand of football, they despise it and since Ulster teams play this way they have ill feelings for the Armagh, Tyrone ETC


Absolute codology and bull. Kerry teams have no problem with hard football as long as it's hard and fair. Ye have a huge chip on ye're shoulder when it comes to Kerry for some reason, ye beat us fair and square 3 times, fair play to ye, ye deserved it. But I think it's driving ye mad that Kerry have gone on to win more All-Irelands, contest more finals, when ye thought we were dead and gone.

There is no ill will towards any Ulster teams down here, the genuine football people of Kerry would testify to this. Stop believing there is.

Cute_Kerry_Hoor (Kerry) - Posts: 2518 - 25/01/2012 14:32:06    1100141

AthCliath
County: Dublin
Posts: 219

1099765 Lets be honest theirs no love lost between Tyrone and kerry, so their is not going to be a rational debate on the matter ,more of people standing up for their own,not giving an inch and dragging up previous instances by other counties as a counter arguement. We give out about rugby reporters and ANTI GAA comments ,now they have great ammunition. This is far from exclusive to tyrone or ulster teams ,only a couple of months ago i watched a brawl between two teams and the people from the sideline were involved as well and neither club was from ulster. Bottomline is this carry on is from the stoneage, and this bravado and pushing out chests stuff is cowardly .I think the gaa will be left with no choice but to come down hard on the culprits. THIS IS A GAA PROBLEM not a north v south problem as some people think. Its peoples mind set that has to change and understand that kids are watching this, and its not ok to give someone a punch or jump in for one of your own as if it was outside a pub at night. Laws have to be enforced where you will end up with jail time for assault at a sporting event. Unfortunately there is gonna have to be more of a garda presence at these matches .

Well said!!!

I too am baffled by those who suggest that Derrytresk should be thrown out of the C'ship! They won the game with 15 men left on the field.

The GAA would find it incredibly difficult for the GAA to throw the team out as these things have happened in the past and teams havent been thrown out.

I do not Agree with the violence on the pitch but the GAA must set out a set of rules to deal with these events in the future. That way teams will know the consequences and therefore think twice about doing stupid things like this.

As I said I do not agree with the actions of the Derrytresk bench or supporters. However, I don't think there would be too many benches that would sit and watch as one of their back room team are repeatedly punched. Lets face the facts, the Dromid players started the ruckus, the Derrytresk bench and supporters finished it. No team is free from blame and only those who where involved in a violent way should be punished. From the video it can be seen that an awful lot of people who ran in where merely trying to break up the fight. The club does not deserve to be thrown out but supporters and the people from the bench do need the appropriate punishment. I am not from Derrytresk club, i will be supporting them in the final as i have a lot of friends from that area. I am trying to take an unbiased approach to this which a lot of people dont seem capable of doing.

Tyronesupporter (Tyrone) - Posts: 114 - 25/01/2012 14:41:42    1100150

It pains me to see scenes like this… Dragging our sport into the gutter and giving the nay sayers a chance to attack our sports.

I think a lot of Club members and especially those involved have to take a long hard look at themselves - only too happy to shout from high about themselves being the backbone of the GAA

Club before country/county and all this chest banging bravado - Well now it appears to be Club before GAA values - seems like our back bone has a fairly nasty tumour growing at its core.

It's time to come down hard on this behaviour and make it very public that such incidents simply will not be tolerated.

I think it's time for the law to become involved as such violence could easily land you in court/jail outside of the pitch. Simple as that… a few stretches handed down wouldn't go a stray and it's perfectly justified to suggest as much.

There's no point finger wagging but unfortunately there appears to be a pattern forming here… and it's at club level.

JinxyPoop (UK) - Posts: 1162 - 25/01/2012 14:44:36    1100152

'People who grew up in NI had to deal with a world us down south never experienced. You grew up in a country at war with itself. Us down south grew up sheltered from that reality and in comparison to lads in the North we have led pampered lives.'

If you look at the players involved in this incident they were mostly in their late teens, early 20's. Going from what my Derrytresk friends have told me the Derrytresk player who was initially hit and which started the whole fracas was 17. They never grew up in violence or war, no more than you did. There was violence in their community before they were born so 20 years later they take it out against a junior Kerry side? Ridiculous theory. Maybe the Dromid player who threw the first punch did so because he was angry about the Ballyseedy massacre in the 1920's

pplocal (Tyrone) - Posts: 5878 - 25/01/2012 14:47:17    1100154

Pplocal, fair comment. I have said if my comment was offensive i take it back and apologise.

Liamwalkinstown (Dublin) - Posts: 8166 - 25/01/2012 14:59:52    1100168

Speaking as someone that was at the game in Portlaoise I really hope that the CCCC and GAA powers have the spine to take appropriate action. Listening to what Christy Cooney has had to say so far I feel he is again attempting to wash his hands of the matter. C'mon Cooney, deal with this growing cancer in our game. You are president of our organisation and have a responsibility to every GAA member across the world.

What kind of example will it set if the Derrytresk club are not punished and go on to win this competition? Is the disgusting behaviour of their players, mentors and supporters to be celebrated and encouraged in the future? Since when is it acceptable for players to grab opposing players testicles when offered a handshake at the beginning of a game, constant provocation and gamesmanship during the game and the absolute thuggery that followed the game? This is not sport.

It was plain to see that the onslaught that occurred before half-time was premeditated and instigated by a Derrytresk official kicking out at and provoking a Droimid player as he attempted to retrieve the ball near the sideline. This is backed up by the video evidence I've seen on various media outlets. I was further outraged by the whataboutery voiced by the Derrytresk club in their recent statement and the attitude of some respected figures within the GAA.

Man up CCCC. Please don't brush this cancer under the carpet.

Gega (Kerry) - Posts: 46 - 25/01/2012 15:13:52    1100175

Watched the clip a few times .Cant condone any of this behaviour from both teams. It was the kerry lads that started it but that is no excuse for the scenes that happened after. To put it simply player bans and club fines should be given out but that is enough.

Dromid bans:
1 First player (no 4) who threw punch at member of management team and a few others
2 No 5 he was in volved with two derryflesk subs. Lots of punches

Derryflesk Bans
1 One sub can be seen wearing a hood and tracksuit bottoms knocking out No. 9
2 Another sub can be seen sprinting on hitting No.4 then No.10 i think
3 No 11 can be seen punching a lad who is lying on the ground
4 The two subs who went after No.5

Now a lot of the other stuff was just grabbing round the neck and pushing and shoving . I could only see two dromid players and one derryflesk players throw proper punches. A lot of it was substitutes that had no right being on the field. If they didnt come on it would have died down in a matter of seconds and it would never have made the news.

Appropriate bans for the above players should be enough. I think Corofin got a 5000 euro fine for supporters on the pitch with maybe a shove or two at the ref. (No punches thrown) I think Derryflesk should get a fine though maybe not as much. Their subs and fans had absolutly No right to be on the pitch i dont care what happened. End of story.

Hope Clonbur hammer them in the final.

Stan.D.Hogan (Galway) - Posts: 152 - 25/01/2012 15:23:14    1100189

We had 3 men arrested for pushing a ref. Are other counties above the law?

georgelee (Louth) - Posts: 523 - 25/01/2012 15:27:24    1100194

milltownsupport
County: Kerry


I did not say anywhere that is was normal Milltown. It is not unique to one county, club or provence.

Throwing Derrytresk does not resolve the issue, but maybe throwing both teams out would. Both teams where guilty of violence, I know that no Dromid people jumped the fence but I have it from a good neutral source that Declan O'Sullivan basically asked for a slap when some oul one hit him with a hand bag (hardly crime of the century and it makes the Dromid men look childish and soft the fact that this has been highlighted)

wise_guy (Tyrone) - Posts: 1584 - 25/01/2012 15:30:14    1100195

Well said bigsacks, Im suprised the 'moderators' allowed
your comments to be posted! I tried to make similar to
voice a similar opinion, but maybe my wording wasn't as
eloquent as yourself! lol This thread has become about
more than just football, it embodies the state of the nation
at the present time. Fear, superstition, and "
its someome elses fault"! I salute you.

TheGateKeeper (Tyrone) - Posts: 2843 - 25/01/2012 15:30:20    1100196

realdub
County: Dublin
Posts: 137

1100139 This can happen and does happen anywhere at any match, we cant blame the Ulster teams, thats rediculous. Yes there are guys that need to be sorted based on the video evindence but that applies to any melee around the country. Ban them. But dont push this on to Ulster!


Well said realdub

I dont think that there is any poster on here who hasnt seen a melee of some kind involving clubs in their own county be it hurling or football. Well???

This happens!

Players who striked should get suspended, subs who got involved suspended - spectators involved reported and dealt with. Pretty cut and dry to me.

I think the Dromid boys need to dry their eyes on this one - game over, derrytresk through.

Brolly (Monaghan) - Posts: 4472 - 25/01/2012 15:30:54    1100197

This has been blown out of proportion as usual!
I remember in 2008, at the final whistle when fans
invaded the pitch. A commentator stating that
Cooper had been interfered with by tyrone fans!
After watching this memorable victory, it is clear
to see that the supporter is offering his sympathies
to Cooper! Even after a great victory, the media tried
to tarnish tyrone! And some say there is no bias!
Media is opinions of individuals people! It does not
necessarily constitute truth! Wake up!

TheGateKeeper (Tyrone) - Posts: 2843 - 25/01/2012 15:46:25    1100207