Dont know about the rest of you but I thought it was very entertaining.

sashman (Kildare) - Posts: 465 - 13/01/2012 15:14:44    1093157

seamus89.
yeah yeah yeah !! . sorry you have me lost i never said you cannot be heard or have a opinion the usual stuff that you refer me on coming out with is largely comes me being born and reared in a time when things were very ugly , but they are elements within the irish media which sadly have you brainwashed into thinking that the problem lies within the republican community in the north because of all their grovelling , u do seem like most of the time a very articulated poster on which i read a lot of your posts with interest , but you can also be very naive when it concerns the wee six . as for sinn fein i have no time for them thats because i can think for my self and judge on whats actually happening within irish republicism and the cancer of capitalism that is growing within it .

ta32 (Tyrone) - Posts: 4907 - 13/01/2012 15:34:15    1093173

seamus89.
you are waging that you have read more than myself . welll good on ye the statement in itself states that you have learned a lot . ;D.

ta32 (Tyrone) - Posts: 4907 - 13/01/2012 15:36:53    1093175

Horse
County: Laois
Posts: 842

1093140 Seamus89
County: Kilkenny
Posts: 3039

1092929 Brolly

My views are far-right? Do you even not what that means? Nick Griffin, Marine Le Pen and other fascist fools. I am centre-right,


Lads you took my statement in a literal way. What i meant was that ulsterman and Seamus are polar opposites - so therefore seamus and irish republican ideals are polar opposites.

Brolly (Monaghan) - Posts: 4472 - 13/01/2012 15:46:15    1093180

I am a republican, and proud of it, but I recognise that the IRA was responsible for terrible and heinous acts - but I also say that the IRA was a legitimate response by a community under siege and an organisation that for several years was necessary. It began to seriously lose it's way in the mid-70's, but to look at the North merely saying IRA bad/Unionists bad/British bad, and why didn't we all just get along is a trite and ridiculous assessment of an extremely delicate topic.

Good post Abhainn. I agree that the attacks on the Catholic community-and the disgusting refusal of the RUC and bigoted Orange state forces to defend them-made a paramilitary force necessary early on. But I disagree strongly that it began to lose its way in the "mid-70s". It was already murdering and maiming scores of men, women and children in 1972. Indiscriminate car bombs, preferably in Protestant areas, became the MO, and they stuck with that strategy throughout the war.

I have said many times on here that I support the unification of Ireland. I have said many times that I deplore the acts of the British military in the North between the early 70s and the late 90s. I have gone as far as saying that if the IRA had waged a different sort of struggle early on, one without attacking civilian targets or waging war on the Protestants of Ulster, I would have regarded it as morally justifiable. The great Tom Barry said as much. But they didn't do that.

And Brolly, my goals are not the complete antithesis of Irish republicanism. I want a united independent Ireland, a representative parliament (no more Seanad) and a secular (within reason) state. That is exactly what Wolfe Tone wanted. I am a Wolfe Tone Republican and proud of it.

Seamus89 (Kilkenny) - Posts: 3848 - 13/01/2012 16:51:15    1093223

I am no fan of sinn fein in its current form but to continually make reference to them as Sinn Fein/IRA demeans all Republicans in the north and South of Ireland as that is a stick used to castigate Republicans. The IRA fought a necessary war and apart from some unfortunate incidents we did a great job and are continuing to do so and believe it or not there is growing respect between former combatants of all colours in the north. I see it as a natural Irishisation or the occupied six. You wouldnt know much about any of the above though being only a boy and way down there in Killkenny

CheFinny (UK) - Posts: 1358 - 14/01/2012 17:58:07    1093613

You could write the script.

Seamus starts a thread to articulate how upset he is that a socialist/physical force Republican/anti-Vatican secularist has been given favourable treatment in the Irish media.

Nordies counter with accusations of how we "don't understand" and all worship the crown and read the Indo.

The world, unfortunately is not black and white. TG4 (or more likely whatever production company made it for TG4) have a right and a possibly even a responsibility to make these sort of programmes. It should be a good thing to provoke debate and explore our history a bit, once it's done with a degree of sensitivity and balance (which I'm sure can be difficult).

Seamus, do you want us to tipex Rose Dugdale from history? Do you not think it's worth exploring why an English aristocrat was drawn to a cause that both frightened and appalled many Irishmen? I wouldn't for a moment question your history as I know your something of a student on the topic but surely you recognise peoples right to hold a different view of it yours, particularly our Northern friends?

roundball (Tipperary) - Posts: 2514 - 14/01/2012 19:15:57    1093649

interesting show and well put Ulsterman

cboyle92 (Down) - Posts: 184 - 14/01/2012 19:52:37    1093664

anti-Vatican secularist

What?

Seamus89 (Kilkenny) - Posts: 3848 - 14/01/2012 21:48:32    1093718

Seamus, do you want us to tipex Rose Dugdale from history? Do you not think it's worth exploring why an English aristocrat was drawn to a cause that both frightened and appalled many Irishmen? I wouldn't for a moment question your history as I know your something of a student on the topic but surely you recognise peoples right to hold a different view of it yours, particularly our Northern friends?

I don't want to tipex this woman out of history, but I certainly do not want her crimes to be glorified at the expense of the licence fee payer. If they were going to do a show on her, they should have included critical voices, victims of the IRA perhaps, or a commentator like Kevin Myers who reported on the conflict when Rose Dugdale was active.

Seamus89 (Kilkenny) - Posts: 3848 - 14/01/2012 21:50:15    1093721

You didn't live it Seamus and haven't a clue about what went on so don't embarrass your self any further. The Provos did carry out some awful deeds even they would admit so no one is trying to play the pious card here. It was an awful conflict and some of us still carry the physical and mental scars of it. Like many others I witnessed and experienced some terrible incidents and I don't want this generations children to go through it. There were no winners but what does annoy many Irish Nationalists North & South is the deliberate campaign by the Southern revisionist media to rewrite the conflict to portray Republicans as the aggressors and sole body responsible for every single deed. That is factually and historically untrue but these people have a sinister agenda and it is a dreadful insult to those who suffered at the hands of Britian's military and it's Loyalist satellite death squads. Furthermore stop peddling the nonsense that the IRA killed more Catholics than Britain and Loyalists who killed over 1500 people mostly Catholic. The fact that you keep repeating this rubbish shows how little you know; go and actually learn something about the past 40 years instead of repeating Independent crap.

Ulsterman (Antrim) - Posts: 9819 - 15/01/2012 15:58:46    1093845

Seamus has that divine gift that allows him to judge between justified killing and unjustified, to be able to declare which wars are good and which are bad, to be able to see the virtueous participants.
The rest of us mere mortals I am afraid are bound by our humanity to declare all killing unjustified all wars evil and all participants at best misguided.

derryman (Derry) - Posts: 3246 - 15/01/2012 16:10:42    1093851

Seamus89
County: Kilkenny
Posts: 3056

1093721

I don't want to tipex this woman out of history, but I certainly do not want her crimes to be glorified at the expense of the licence fee payer. If they were going to do a show on her, they should have included critical voices, victims of the IRA perhaps, or a commentator like Kevin Myers who reported on the conflict when Rose Dugdale was active.

Why should there necessarily be a critical voice? Should the public not be trusted to be critical themselves? That's a large part of the problem with this country, the public has lost the ability to critically analyse what we are told. If the public are as suscepetible to propoganda as you seem to fear than I would be very worried. Of course ideally there would be a commentator to add context to the story, not Myers however, the man sickens and has become a terrible excuse for a journalist. I'm sure Myers tuppence worth wouldn't have come cheap to the taxpayer either...

Ulsterman

Who are these Southern Revisionists? Certainly don't come across many who saw the Nationalist community as the aggressors myself.

roundball (Tipperary) - Posts: 2514 - 15/01/2012 16:27:15    1093859

Why should there necessarily be a critical voice? Should the public not be trusted to be critical themselves? That's a large part of the problem with this country, the public has lost the ability to critically analyse what we are told. If the public are as suscepetible to propoganda as you seem to fear than I would be very worried. Of course ideally there would be a commentator to add context to the story, not Myers however, the man sickens and has become a terrible excuse for a journalist. I'm sure Myers tuppence worth wouldn't have come cheap to the taxpayer either...

Myers would have volunteered his services I'm sure. He wrote a column about this awful show, as did Eoghan Harris, whose piece is in today's Sindo. One of those two could have been on, or maybe one of the relatives of the IRA's victims. There is no shortage, sadly.

Ulsterman, the IRA killed more Catholics than any other organisation. While there was collusion between the British security services and the Loyalist paras (just as there was collusion between some of the Gardai and the IRA) they were not the same organisation. More importantly, the IRA killed more human beings than any other organisation. The Provos were bloodthirsty savages and I don't mind saying it. You can get your blood pressure up all you want, I'm not going to stop calling you and your fellow travellers out.

Seamus89 (Kilkenny) - Posts: 3848 - 15/01/2012 16:37:37    1093866

Are you serious roundball? Do you read the Irish press and their revisionist commentators; watch and listen to the Irish broadcasting media with their biased anti Nationalist pundits; observe the Irish political Establishment and it's partitionist mindset. Did you follow the Irish Presidential campaign and rabid, nasty 'North/South' stuff that Martin McGuiness and to a lesser extent Dana had to put up with? Did you listen to Gay Mitchell and Micheal Martin tell McGuinness he shouldn't be coming 'down here'. Do you ever catch some of the disgraceful stuff Eoghan Harris, Ruth Dudley Edwards, Kevin Myers and the other Independent journalists churn out against the Northern Catholic community. This is the same newspaper group that castigated John Hume for trying to bring peace to the North???

Ulsterman (Antrim) - Posts: 9819 - 15/01/2012 16:42:01    1093871

Seamus, you haven't a clue and the fact that you always quote the Independent, Myers and Harris tells us everything we need to know about where you get your propoganda from. The Northern Nationalist community are on the rise and the push for unity will only intensify; get used to it.

Ulsterman (Antrim) - Posts: 9819 - 15/01/2012 16:51:29    1093885