The views of the players are important Ormondbannerman, but you are assuming that all of them agree with Cavanagh.I doubt this is the case.
Also,the fans do not have twelve months to celebrate with the team.After the game,players go on holidays,go back to work,go on all stars trips etc.Its very difficult for the fans to get close to the whole team at any stage after the final.I think I heard that there were two Dublin players at one of the school runs.
As for player safety,of course I accept your point,but if you think about it youd be safer being on the pitch after an all Ireland final than you would be on the pitch during a rugby match.(just joking Ormondbannerman)

TheRoad (Galway) - Posts: 1339 - 29/11/2011 19:11:25    1077465

It's a simple matter of a bit of organisation.

At the final whistle form a Garda/Stewards cordon in a decent sized semi-circle around the Hogan Stand tunnel.
Have a countdown clock for when the gates open up on the big screens at Croke Park.

10 mins after the final whistle this clock counts down to zero and the gates are opened allowing people to enter the field.
To prevent a crush in the stands, people in the upper tiers won't be allowed to go to the lower tiers until the gates to the field are open.

Personally, I think the lap of honour is a poor substitute for the captain climbing the steps and showing the cup to his people below.
This would give the players and officials the time to celebrate, commiserate and rest on the field while also ensuring that the wonderful sight of the speech and lifting of the cup before the crowd is preserved.

GloryHunter (Meath) - Posts: 136 - 30/11/2011 13:00:18    1077801

30/11/2011 13:00:18
GloryHunter
County: Meath
Posts: 83

1077801 It's a simple matter of a bit of organisation.

At the final whistle form a Garda/Stewards cordon in a decent sized semi-circle around the Hogan Stand tunnel.
Have a countdown clock for when the gates open up on the big screens at Croke Park.

10 mins after the final whistle this clock counts down to zero and the gates are opened allowing people to enter the field.
To prevent a crush in the stands, people in the upper tiers won't be allowed to go to the lower tiers until the gates to the field are open.

Personally, I think the lap of honour is a poor substitute for the captain climbing the steps and showing the cup to his people below.
This would give the players and officials the time to celebrate, commiserate and rest on the field while also ensuring that the wonderful sight of the speech and lifting of the cup before the crowd is preserved

A countdown clock to allow people onto the pitch, that will never happen. You say all it will take is a bit of simple organisation to allow people onto the pitch, if people have to wait 10 minutes they will be pushing each other etc while waiting for the 10 minutes to finish
Look at the vast majority of sports at the top level in the world and you do not see supporters running onto the pitch. Take ireland winning the grand slam in 09
link
Apart from the awful music, that is what the GAA should be aiming for.

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 30/11/2011 13:22:58    1077815

A countdown clock to allow people onto the pitch, that will never happen. You say all it will take is a bit of simple organisation to allow people onto the pitch, if people have to wait 10 minutes they will be pushing each other etc while waiting for the 10 minutes to finish
Look at the vast majority of sports at the top level in the world and you do not see supporters running onto the pitch. Take ireland winning the grand slam in 09
link
Apart from the awful music, that is what the GAA should be aiming for.

No, it really isn't.

To be honest shuffling around a near empty stadium is a pile of ***** compared to raising the cup and showing it to your people below.

That's just my opinion.

GAA fans are sensible people and there have been no serious incidents of crowd crushing over the 100 odd years of big crowds at games... what makes you think that we'll turn into a raging mob just because a countdown clok is introduced?!

GloryHunter (Meath) - Posts: 136 - 30/11/2011 14:00:07    1077855

We can learn a lot from other sports but treating spectators like an inconvenience who need to corralled and controlled is not one of them IMO.

Not to sound too arrogant but we are better then that and we should aim for inclusiveness for the special occasion that is an All-Ireland win.

GloryHunter (Meath) - Posts: 136 - 30/11/2011 14:09:19    1077864

30/11/2011 14:00:07
GloryHunter
County: Meath
Posts: 84

1077855 A countdown clock to allow people onto the pitch, that will never happen. You say all it will take is a bit of simple organisation to allow people onto the pitch, if people have to wait 10 minutes they will be pushing each other etc while waiting for the 10 minutes to finish
Look at the vast majority of sports at the top level in the world and you do not see supporters running onto the pitch. Take ireland winning the grand slam in 09
link
Apart from the awful music, that is what the GAA should be aiming for.

No, it really isn't.

To be honest shuffling around a near empty stadium is a pile of ***** compared to raising the cup and showing it to your people below.

That's just my opinion.

GAA fans are sensible people and there have been no serious incidents of crowd crushing over the 100 odd years of big crowds at games... what makes you think that we'll turn into a raging mob just because a countdown clok is introduced?!

It is just your opinion and its the opinion of the ruling bodies in GAA and many other sports that pitch invasions are a no-no and have to be got rid of. Most sportsfans are sensible but its easier for the ruling bodies(in this case the GAA) to ensure no idiots do anything that brings the association into disrepute by stopping all fans from going onto the pitch after games

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 30/11/2011 14:15:08    1077873

Well, that's the nub of the problem bannerman.

Association takes easy way out and decides outright ban is the best way to go.

IMO, It's not a black and white pitch invasions are good/bad issue, it just needs a bit of thought and effort put into it and I think what i've suggested above is easily done.

The College Football invasions work because the supporters and authorities make it work. (notably, in the US, the most litigious country in the world!)

We can easily do the same and if we don't were outlawing a tradition that goes back over generations because a few yahoos can't conduct themselves properly, punishing the majority for the actions of the minority.

GloryHunter (Meath) - Posts: 136 - 30/11/2011 14:37:28    1077885

Clearly this is a matter of opinion vs tradition. Some people just can't let go of the pitch invasions after they've become part & parcel of the AI final.

And you have to admit, pitch invasions are not synonymous with people getting hurt, at least not in the GAA anyway

But times change, people will get used to it eventually. Personally, I love the laps of honour that the winners have done thus far

gigoer (Wexford) - Posts: 1998 - 30/11/2011 14:42:56    1077888

Another point re the similiarites of GAA and College Football in the US.

Most of the fans come from small towns and cities (by US standards) They aren't massive sporting franchises (like the NFL or indeed the Premier League)

The people have a close connection to the team and the team is linked strongly to the town itself.

This connection arguably prevents the violence and trouble at these games like you see at Soccer and recently in the NFL.

There's a lot more similiarity between Kerry and Notre Dame then there is between Kerry and Liverpool FC for example.

GloryHunter (Meath) - Posts: 136 - 30/11/2011 14:45:56    1077893

Ah Gig, I'd say it's a matter of Opinion backed up by tradition Vs Opinion backed up by unsubstantiated health and safety nonsense!!!

GloryHunter (Meath) - Posts: 136 - 30/11/2011 14:49:36    1077896

Not at all Hunter - I think the lack of pitch invasions has been terrific for the spectacle they are and I'm sure many would agree, much better than a pitch invasion in my opinion

And I didn't quote Health & Safety issues, unsubstantiated or otherwise, in fact I alluded to the safety issues being non-existent during the years of pitch invasions so I was agreeing with you on that point

I take it you're a traditionalist but y'know we Irish get used to these things, we never thought we'd pay for shopping bags, we never thought we'd stop smoking in our bars, but we did

I can see you feel passionately on the issue but I'm sure people will get used to this too in all likelihood.

gigoer (Wexford) - Posts: 1998 - 30/11/2011 14:59:13    1077902

Gloryhunter,I agree with you ab.out pitch invasions,but I think I heard that man for man,Ireland has actually become a more litigious country than the U.S.Just thought Id throw that out there.

TheRoad (Galway) - Posts: 1339 - 30/11/2011 16:35:09    1077981

Yet again, some people are missing the point and only looking at the professional sports that we are bombarded with by Sky sports. US College football has probably the largest attendance at games in the world. Multiple stadium's with 100,000 capacity (the big house, the horsehsoe etc). Most big teams have 80,000 at least at their home games. Fans traditions are respected howver and the teams understand their support base so they find a way to make them safe. They don't copy others, they are proud of their own sport and traditions.

onlyhurling (Galway) - Posts: 800 - 30/11/2011 17:39:51    1078045

onlyhurling
County: Galway
Posts: 440

1078045 Yet again, some people are missing the point and only looking at the professional sports that we are bombarded with by Sky sports. US College football has probably the largest attendance at games in the world. Multiple stadium's with 100,000 capacity (the big house, the horsehsoe etc). Most big teams have 80,000 at least at their home games. Fans traditions are respected howver and the teams understand their support base so they find a way to make them safe. They don't copy others, they are proud of their own sport and traditions.

It helps in american football that pitches are artifical unlike GAA, rugby, soccer pitches so when pitch invasions do occur little to no damage is done to the surface of the pitch from the hundreds/thousands of people that go onto the pitch

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 30/11/2011 19:25:05    1078129

Grass is the most ubiquitous and among the hardiest organisms known. It will grow back after a million wildebeast stomp over it so a few thousand people in Croke around September is no real problem.

Suas Sios (None) - Posts: 1558 - 02/12/2011 09:12:08    1078866

No, American Football fields are mostly grass these days, injuries from playing on the artificial stuff meant teams got rid.
I want the return of pitch celebrations. Why mimic what our corporate competitors do in their games?

srb (Antrim) - Posts: 344 - 02/12/2011 10:28:08    1078898

02/12/2011 10:28:08
srb
County: Antrim
Posts: 155

1078898 No, American Football fields are mostly grass these days, injuries from playing on the artificial stuff meant teams got rid.
I want the return of pitch celebrations. Why mimic what our corporate competitors do in their games?

Its about 60:40 grass:artificial pitches in the NFL

The argument that pitch invasions in Croke Park have been an integral part of All-Ireland final days down through the decades is the most common put forward by those who want to retain them 'as part of what we are'.
It's been flatly rejected by GAA director general Paraic Duffy on the basis that: (a) it was always dangerous; (b) times have changed in terms of health and safety issues; (c) it's easier to get on to the pitch than before the redevelopment; (d) the evidence of the risks and the danger are there for everybody to see.

A major concern that has arose as a result of the pitch invasions is that access to Jones's Road provides the quickest route back into the city centre, the majority of people who invade the pitch from the Hill 16, Cusack and Davin Stands leave through the Hogan Stand exits, causing serious congestion outside.

It was quite frightening on Jones's Road for a period after the more recent finals. It also means that emergency services cannot access Jones's Road if required.

Said Croke Park stadium director Peter McKenna: "This is serious. What if somebody collapses on Jones's Road? What if there was a fire or explosion at the back of the Hogan Stand or in the Croke Park hotel?

"Emergency services couldn't get through for 20-30 minutes at least. People say, 'but there's never been a fire or explosion'. That would sound very hollow if something happened.

"You have to be prepared on the basis of what might happen in the future, rather than what didn't happen in the past."

Some here may say but there never has been an accident, serious incident but what if there is. Pitch invasions should be banned because they create more problems than if everyone leaves through normal exits

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 02/12/2011 10:47:01    1078908

ormondbannerman
Do you work full time for the GAA?
You are taking the typical approach, ignoring all but the facts you continuosly want to pedal. If you don't believe pitch invasion are a good tradition then fine but it is a fact that it can be done perfectly safely if people want it.
The most dangerous thing any of us will do on AI final day is travel in a car, are you on for banning that as well. Or maybe we should all wear helmets while driving. Travelling in a car without a helmet is far more dangerous than hurling without a helmet but thats a different story.

onlyhurling (Galway) - Posts: 800 - 02/12/2011 14:06:42    1079041

02/12/2011 14:06:42
onlyhurling
County: Galway
Posts: 441

1079041 ormondbannerman
Do you work full time for the GAA?
You are taking the typical approach, ignoring all but the facts you continuosly want to pedal. If you don't believe pitch invasion are a good tradition then fine but it is a fact that it can be done perfectly safely if people want it.
The most dangerous thing any of us will do on AI final day is travel in a car, are you on for banning that as well. Or maybe we should all wear helmets while driving. Travelling in a car without a helmet is far more dangerous than hurling without a helmet but thats a different story.

I do not work for the GAA, im a student but i have worked as a steward in grounds like thomond park, gaelic ground limerick as well as at munster rugby games in clubs around the province and pitch invasions are a thing of the past, many here will say to the over litigious country we are now on but the simple matter is that it only takes 1 incident for something that for the vast majority of times is nothing to turn into a serious accident.
Banning supporters from entering the field is simple risk management and saying its tradition is not good enough.

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 02/12/2011 14:28:26    1079059

ormondbannerman
'Pitch invasion are a thing of the past'
yet again you only quote the stats or facts you want. They are only a thing of the past in certain sports. There is life outside of 'sky sports hype', that is my whole point, and sports who respect their fans traditions have found a way to do this safely.
You say, one accident is too much, and I fully agree it needs to be made fully safe, but remember virtually everything we do comes with a level of risk. Driving to matches is much higher risk, look at the stats, should we ban travelling to matches. Have you ever gone to the toliets behind either terrace during half time in a Munster hurling championship match. Now that is an accident waiting to happen and is the only place I have ever been worried about my safety at a GAA match. In general the GAA don't care about that and the genuine health risk (although I believe they are looking at the capacity now), they only care about what is visible and apeing the sports we get bombarded with by Sky sports and the Dublin based media. Again, I have no problem with anyone here saying that they prefer staying in the stands after the game and if that is what the majority of GAA fans want then I will fully support it. Just don't tell me pitch invasions can't be done safely.

onlyhurling (Galway) - Posts: 800 - 02/12/2011 15:30:30    1079117