There are three ways suggested in opening up football (from what I can tell) and rewarding kicking, skilful play and more attack-minded play. These are introducing the mark, limiting handpasses, and going to 13 a side. The mark I think brings us more in line with Aussie Rules and would benefit big tall players who may or may not be good footballers. They introduced limited handpasses a few years ago in the league and it didn't work- the handpass is a part of football; to remove it would be like only allowing one solo or hop- another silly idea. 13 a side would work. The lads from Wexford would have seen it at underage level and it definitely does the trick. It would go a long way to end the blanket defence.

As one poster pointed out, it is all football and if teams want to defend it is up to other teams to attack. That's true. But at the same time it is easier nowadays for teams to play this crowding defence- I can't remember the last time I saw a free for two-handed tackling. If the game had been refereed according to the rules yesterday there would have been loads of frees. And Donegal and Dublin are two generally very clean teams. And at the same time frees are given for players over-carrying when they haven't. I know what my old hurling coach from school would say "drop it at their knees and pull!"- but for some things like this there are no solutions in the modern game except to handpass. What do you do when surrounded by 4 or 5 players? Kick it? Impossible and this is what leads to more and more handpasses in the game.

Players are too fit for the size of the pitch in modern football. And rather than trying to increase the size of every pitch in the country, we need to reduce the number of players. In football it is too hard to play a long game to beat a blanket defence- the ball just doesn't travel like it does in hurling. And in fairness, Kilkenny, Tipp and Dublin are heading towards withdrawn half-forward lines and extra defenders in that game too. 13 makes sense in football. Imagine watching Brogan or Cooper or Stephen O'Neill playing with no sweeper or double-marking? The game would be great to watch and the standard of play would increase loads.

icehonesty (Wexford) - Posts: 2573 - 29/08/2011 21:02:01    1022342

The limited handpass worked well in Int Rules last year. It actually made the game even faster due to the increased level of kick passing. I quite liked it but as I was saying before here you'd need at least two refs!

Count_Awesome (Kildare) - Posts: 736 - 30/08/2011 10:25:21    1022556

A simply regulation might be to prevent forwards from roaming around the whole pitch such as half forwards coming back to defend.
Say, give a free to the opposition if forwards go over theie own half way line. Stay up fornt where ye belong not tackling the forwards of the other team. Its all messed up in my view

cacsmckilly (Tyrone) - Posts: 1294 - 30/08/2011 10:52:00    1022605

cock,

Not a practical solution. Say a forward leads out his man for a ball around half way. The ball is slowly moving towards the sideline, just inside his teams half but he can't cross the line. The man marking him can walk past and pick it up unchallenged.

You can't stop tactical innovation but you can aim to limit its affect. Maybe expand a square ball type rule around the D where only the full forward line can operate. They can still roam anywhere, but inside the D or the 21, wherever, only the full forwards/backs can operate.

diablodeKingdom (Kerry) - Posts: 210 - 30/08/2011 11:18:55    1022646

A much simpler way of freeing up players is adding a second ref to keep an eye on off the ball dragging and blocked runs etc. The tackle also needs to be clarified. GAA games must be the only sport in the world without a defined tackle.

diablodeKingdom (Kerry) - Posts: 210 - 30/08/2011 11:20:55    1022649

diablodeKingdom
County: Kerry
Posts: 101

I think you've got it there, "4.18 To wrest the ball from an opponent who has caught the ball." someone should tell the ref's!!! or else its so vague and commonplace that it is just ignored.

arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4953 - 30/08/2011 12:02:55    1022714

@gigoer you could introduce a rule similar to the soloing (don't you have to bounce the ball at least once for every 2/3 solos off the foot or something like that?), perhaps only so many handpassess should......

when was this rule introduced.

i agree with the proposal the game has always evolved and as someone mentioned it used to be 21-a-side then 17 then 15. it should now be 13. with perhaps 7 subs allowed during the game so the same omount of players can get game-time. inter-county players are completely differents units than they once were. much fitter and faster. But this would need two thirds majority at congress. can anyone see that happenning. maybe if we get a turkey of an all-ireland final then the powers that be will sit up and take notice.

s goldrick (Cavan) - Posts: 5520 - 30/08/2011 12:57:11    1022782

30/08/2011 11:20:55
diablodeKingdom
County: Kerry
Posts: 103

1022649 A much simpler way of freeing up players is adding a second ref to keep an eye on off the ball dragging and blocked runs etc. The tackle also needs to be clarified. GAA games must be the only sport in the world without a defined tackle.

--------------

Correct X2. The question "what was that for, ref?" is asked in earnest more in football than in any other sport I can think of. (Rugby Union a close second). Love to see a second ref pick on on the wreckers who try to stop teams playing the game

Count_Awesome (Kildare) - Posts: 736 - 30/08/2011 16:26:53    1023052

I don't think it will make a blind bit of difference....you have to listen to what the managers are saying! McGuinness is not interested in scoring at the weekend only interest was closing off the space infront of Dublin forwards! He didn't require 2 midfielders at all on sunday the way he lined his team out so all on sunday so if a manger has a negative mindset like that you will not stop them trying to close off the space....you will just reduce the number of forwards they need to shut down!

I think when people are talking about the way Dublin and Kerry are getting half forwards back now and are being defensive is much excaggerated...Wing forwards have always got up and down the pitch! Take the last great MEath teams Evan Kelly and trevor giles were often found back in there own half back line and McDermott was forever catching balls over there own crossbar. They all contributed on the score board at the other end and won many an allstar for hard work and enterprise. It wasn't considered a defensive system then it was considered hard working! Similarly Flynn, Cullen and Brogan are working extrmely hard for the team but as well as tracking back are turning up with scores at the other end of the pitch...cullen picked up a ball and scored a point from the edge of the square on sunday so they are not entirely defensive! Hard work and covering ground has been part and parcel of the midfield/half forward line as long as i remember!

pigonastick (Dublin) - Posts: 487 - 30/08/2011 17:12:50    1023131

I think icehonesty hit the nail on the head there when he said players are too fit for the size of the pitch and the best way to solve the problem is to reduce the number of players, creating more space, and more running.

headsup (Wexford) - Posts: 28 - 30/08/2011 17:22:40    1023141

i agree

some of the leagues and B championships in laois are played with 13-a-side. it makes a much better game to look at and ,believe it or not, players actually kick the ball

Tommo1 (Laois) - Posts: 113 - 31/08/2011 21:37:12    1024394

goldrick I don't know when or even if that rule was introduced, I was of the impression that was in the rulebook somewhere but I am open to correction

gigoer (Wexford) - Posts: 1998 - 01/09/2011 10:25:51    1024489

Ya great post icehonesty.

This idea always pops up but I would be an advocate of keeping the 15 a side noramlly.
But players are getting so fit now that 13 a side may be a better option.
But then again players would probably be flogged in training to get them even fitter and their inter county careers might be even shorter.

As a pevious poster said about Anthony Tohill, the same was said by Lee Dixon about Graham Geraghty. he couldn't get over the fitness of an ameteaur who blew them away for fitness. That was nearly 20 years ago and players are much more fitter now.


I do think there is a place for 15 a side football but with more and more teams becoming negative I can see reasons for 13 a side.


How about this maybe - where a team's full forward line ould not be allowed to move outside the oppositions half or at least 3 or 4 attacking players has to be in the opposition half at all times

woops (Kerry) - Posts: 2073 - 01/09/2011 12:17:59    1024601

Thirteen a side is a great suggestion, and introduce the countdown clock to stop time-wasting. I completely disagree the idea of limiting the handpass; very few teams really abuse the handpass. in fact, the better teams all use kick passes and handpasses at the appropriate times. .I've 2 questions for those people who want to restrict the handpass: Firstly, how many handpasses is "too many"? Secondly, On what basis do you come to that conclusion?

football first (None) - Posts: 1259 - 01/09/2011 12:35:47    1024625

You know when a child does not like something so they think they can do what they want change it. You know it wants its own way and does not care what anyone else thinks. Yeah well that is yous are suggesting happens to gaelic football. Just because a team or teams dont play the way you or certain people like you cant just rip up the gaa handbook. No one is breaking the rules. The best team will always win the all ireland!! 13 a side equals rubbish. Two handpasses equals rubbish. Listen if you like to kick the ball kick it but for christ sakes dont just change the rules because some clown in rte does not like the handpass. Donegal always have had a handpassing game and won a all irland incorporating it into gaa. So we are ment to change just because some otherr people dont like it.... GROW UP

THE EXTRAMAN (Donegal) - Posts: 554 - 01/09/2011 17:47:10    1024992

People are always lamenting back about how football was better in the past, how footballers we better etc.

Not true! Get over it. The football of today and footballers are better.

Like all games tactics evolve and you go with ups and downs.

Lets not start throwing the baby out with the bathwater

witnof (Dublin) - Posts: 1604 - 01/09/2011 20:19:32    1025108

There is no need to revert to a 13-a-side game in my view. Some big scores have been registered in the latter stages of this year's Championship..Dublin 0-22, Kerry 1-20 twice, Cork 2-20, Tyrone 3-19, Kildare 0-19 so the potential for high-scoring games with the latitude for forwards to impress is already there in the current format.

Occasionally you get a low-scoring slugfest like last Sunday but there should always be room in the game for different tactical approaches to emerge and evolve. Donegal have had a successful year based on a certain tactical gameplan that was effective to a certain point but if they want to take the next step and improve again they will need to tweak their tactics next year. Dublin had a fairly rigid defensive formation last year which brought them to a semi-final but Gilroy has employed a slightly more expansive gameplan this year and it could be enough to take them all the way. All teams will need to vary their tactics to remain competitive. The 'running teams' like Cork and Kildare who struggled against the defensive set-ups of Mayo and Donegal will take some harsh lessons on board and maybe look to go more direct next year so the way teams play is always evolving to try and stay ahead of the posse.

Anyway for me, high-scoring games does not always equal exciting games. In another code, I'd always prefer the Cork v Clare Hurling Semi-Final in 2005 ahead of the Galway v Kilkenny Semi-Final that year. In the former, both defenses were on top and every point was hard-fought and cherished because of its importance. In the latter both defenses went awol and it seemed every attack was going to result in a goal scored. Good defending is an art form just as much as good forward play although the casual observer will invariably be swayed by a high scoring-game. On a similar note the most engrossing game of the year for me in either code was the last 20 minutes of normal time and the entire extra-time period of Donegal and Kildare which although low-scoring was gripping and fascinating to watch.

eviemonkey (Cork) - Posts: 308 - 01/09/2011 21:26:38    1025177

What if referees were more clued in to allowing the quick free to be taken. And any attempt, like not returning the ball not retreating 14 yards or dragging etc be actually penalised with a meaningful punishment by bringing the ball forward to say a 30 metre line and any of these infringement inside the 45 metre line be brought up to the 14 metre line with only two players allowed on the goal line

derryman (Derry) - Posts: 3246 - 01/09/2011 21:51:37    1025217

THE EXTRAMAN
County: Donegal
Posts: 372

1024992
You know when a child does not like something so they think they can do what they want change it. You know it wants its own way and does not care what anyone else thinks. Yeah well that is yous are suggesting happens to gaelic football. Just because a team or teams dont play the way you or certain people like you cant just rip up the gaa handbook. No one is breaking the rules. The best team will always win the all ireland!! 13 a side equals rubbish. Two handpasses equals rubbish. Listen if you like to kick the ball kick it but for christ sakes dont just change the rules because some clown in rte does not like the handpass. Donegal always have had a handpassing game and won a all irland incorporating it into gaa. So we are ment to change just because some otherr people dont like it.... GROW UP

hey extraman. rules evolve. they don't have to stay as they are. the gaa football rules have been changed alot over the years. there used to be 21-a-side then 18-a-side then 15-a-side, so there is no reason why (especially now that players are much fitter and faster) we can't change again to 13-a-side. Not just because of the Donegal team's tactics but because players now dont stick to the rigid 3-3-2-3-3- formation and players have the fitness and stamina to play all over the field thus crowding out certain areas and making it really difficult to actually play the game in the way it was intended. The reason why the extra-time in the kildare v donegal match was exciting was because the players were tired at that time so the other rule change could be to increase the playing time to 90 mins, then players would have to be a bit more conserative with their energy.

s goldrick (Cavan) - Posts: 5520 - 02/09/2011 08:26:15    1025239

Rather than reduce the number of players, or increase the size of the pitch, we could take Jim McGuinness football and adapt slightly. Keep the handpass, but forgo the striking action, and permit only backward passes (which most of Donegals seem to be). Rather than disrupt the running into defenders by toe-tapping or hopping, make it integral to the game. The tackle, as mentioned, is not clearly defined, so relax rules on holding and pulling. As the shoulder charge is almost always misinterpreted as a foul anyway, it would be easily defined if only frontal tackles allowed. The International Rules Series has been such a success, we could adopt their ball, and finally, to make scoring easier we could keep the same posts, but a goal could be redefined as placing the ball on the ground anywere behind the goal line. It may seem far fetched, but maybe we could even make it to the Aviva . . .

Burnsey (Down) - Posts: 561 - 02/09/2011 09:09:55    1025259