In my opinion it is time for gaelic football to change to a 13 a side game. Fitness levels and tactical changes in the game have meant that the pitch is now a smaller place for teams to play. Most teams in the country line out with only two players (at most) in their full-forward lines anyway in a bid to create space. This withdrawn player or players then becomes an extra defender- for most teams now play with a sweeper. Players are that fit nowadays that they can crowd behind the ball and stop the opposition from playing, and it has been gradually getting worse over the past 10 years. There is no need for 15 players on a football pitch. 15 suited the game back when it was catch-and-kick and players stuck to their own zones of the field. But in the current game, more and more teams are opting to keep extra players back to stifle the opposition forwards.

This is not a cut at Donegal by any means. For huge periods of yesterdays game Dublin were just as defensive and got just as many players behind the ball, and worse, for most of the first half deliberately fouled Donegal just outside of the 45 where they couldn't score. Last week Mayo played McLoughlin as a second centre-back, Kerry play their two wing forwards as extra wing-backs, Wexford play an extra defender and an extra midfielder, Tyrone play a sweeper, Kildare play several. Its everywhere.

Take away a corner back and a corner forward from each team. The skill players will flourish and the negative tactics of leaving 4 forwards at one end and playing 10 defenders will be at an end. (There might be 8 defenders, but that's a hell of a lot easier to score against).

icehonesty (Wexford) - Posts: 2573 - 29/08/2011 14:06:46    1021752

Donegal handpassed it 242 times yesterday
242 times........

At one point in the 2nd Half MM had a free on the 45 and instead of taking it on, or at least hitting it into their forwards....he passed it about 15 yards backwards.......and it subsequently became another lateral handpassing move.....

I am sorry Donegal lads, but that....thats just awful.

Maybe we really should look at introducing a basketball back court like move where once you go past the half way line you cannot take it back into your own half again in that play, or limit the amt of handpasses allowed in one play.

A Play being your teams possesion until dispossesed which naturally begins a new play

Liamwalkinstown (Dublin) - Posts: 8166 - 29/08/2011 14:22:48    1021780

Liam - Dublin got a lot of bodies back in their own defence. You criticise Donegal for handpassing but the other option was to kick the ball into McFadden who had 3-4 players around him? That is gifting possession back to Dublin. So tell me what Donegal are supposed to do?

Also, this is the first time I've heard the number of handpasses quoted so often after a game! I'm not sure if 242 is unusually big or unusuall small or about average for a game? It works out at less than 4 handpasses a minute which dosen't seem to be too much.

Loyal2TheRoyal (Meath) - Posts: 4522 - 29/08/2011 14:29:21    1021791

very good points, This is something have thought about in the last 10 years. The gaelic footballers of today would in fitness terms hold their own in every sport world wide including professional sports. In a sense gaelic footballers are trained to the standards of a professional.
remember when Anthony Tohill went to Man utd their professional footballers were astounded by the fitness of him. Studies into gaelic footballers showed that players in the wing back, midfield half forward could clock up 6-8 miles running in one 70 minutes of football. requiring considerable fitness as a lot of this running is sprinting. This fitness has essentially made a gaelic pitch a whole lot smaller. a player could be in corner back and 10-15 sec later he could be in corner forward knocking over a point. 13 players will open up the pitch allowing slightly more skills been displayed, i.e solo skills, dumbies, long kick passing, high fielding. so fitness will still be prominent but not the be all and end all of a county team.

keepherlow (Tyrone) - Posts: 127 - 29/08/2011 14:30:57    1021795

its a hell of a lot Loyal for a team that wasnt even competing for the ball half the time, especially in our half!
It usually averages around the 90-110 mark
240+ is unheard of!

I am not blaming the Donegal players atall Loyal, they did what they had to do. I have no issue with any Donegal player, except Boyle for obvious reasons, I am blaming the sideline.

They have one of the best 14's in the country and they ignore him! If they had left him inside with McF and kicked a few of those handpasses into him back to goals, we could be looking at a very different result today. MM was criminally under used.

Liamwalkinstown (Dublin) - Posts: 8166 - 29/08/2011 14:33:28    1021803

All i can say is after yesterdays car crash thank god for hurling the national game

booboo (Cork) - Posts: 1382 - 29/08/2011 14:36:22    1021809

Wait for the Football Final Booboo
it will be a classic

Liamwalkinstown (Dublin) - Posts: 8166 - 29/08/2011 14:42:15    1021816

Some good points made here, but 13 a side would be a hell of a break from tradition. Good train of thought in that players are fitter these days, hence more ground is covered, hence more handpasses, but not everyone plays that way just the same

Plus we all know how hard the players train & play for their places and to remove 2 of them could be a sore one for a lot of inter county players. 13 a side might not be a bad idea on a trial basis

To the original poster, correct me if I'm wrong but basically, by reducing to 13 players, as well as more scoring, you want to stamp out blanket defences, 2 foot hand passes all day long and basically widen the play and encourage kick-passing? (It is 'foot'ball after all)

I s'pose if we wanted to bring the kickpasses back to the fore, you could introduce a rule similar to the soloing (don't you have to bounce the ball at least once for every 2/3 solos off the foot or something like that?), perhaps only so many handpassess should be allowed before it must be a kick pass, although that might be difficult to implement

gigoer (Wexford) - Posts: 1998 - 29/08/2011 14:54:21    1021839

I agree. I've always thought 13-a-side would be a much more enjoyable game to watch.

lessbull (Kerry) - Posts: 177 - 29/08/2011 15:01:01    1021851

It's worth a try me tinks :)

flemishgael (Kerry) - Posts: 67 - 29/08/2011 16:04:41    1021981

I think 13 aside would ruin Gaelic sports.

Simple rule change - 2 hand passes in a row not allowed. If you receive one, you can't give one (no sniggering please!).

The game is called 'Gaelic Football' so players should be encouraged/forced to kick it. Otherwise we will be like the americans with a game called football where nobody kicks it.

slayer (Limerick) - Posts: 6480 - 29/08/2011 16:20:16    1021999

Teams were once 21 a side, then 17 a side before being reduced to 15 a side around 1920 or so. I think reducing teams to 13 a side would be excellent for our intercounty games by allowing so much more space for skill and speed rather than the brawn and bash thats currently permeating our game.

It would also be beneficial to many smaller rural clubs who struggle most weekends now to field 15 players. A simple line up as follows could be used

Goalie
Full Back Full Back
Centre Back
Wing Back Wing Back
Mid-Field Mid-Field
Wing Forward Wing Forward
Centre Forward
Full Forward Full Forward

dingle1 (Clare) - Posts: 805 - 29/08/2011 16:49:15    1022035

I don't know about any other county, but last year in Wexford they introduced a 13-a-side division in all the under-age age groups for clubs who couldn't make 15. I thought it resulted in fast free-flowing football and you can't really bring a corner forward back because that would only leave 1 up front. There would also be much more kickpassing because there is so much space and a lot more running. Definitely worth a try for intercounty football. I don't know about club football though, I don't think that would work.

headsup (Wexford) - Posts: 28 - 29/08/2011 17:17:58    1022079

Dingle1, i see you've got positions and all sorted for 13 a side. But tactically up here i think we'd go for:
Keeper,
Defender,
Defender,
Defender,
Defender,
Defender,
Defender,
Defender,
Defender,
Defender,
Defender,
Defender,
Attacking midfielder....

Be interesting to try 13 a side, certainly open up the sport and make it more 'foot'ball like.. Could be trialled in likes of mc kenna and o byrne comps!!!

81DLSAM (Donegal) - Posts: 281 - 29/08/2011 17:39:44    1022114

oh for gods sake...this is just pathetic....whynot go the whole hog andgoto 7 a side...and watch teamsplay the ballaroundwith no defending...defending and defensive systems are part of the game just as attackers and attacking systems are part of the game...what is the point in watching a game where players waltz through and knock the ballover the bar unchallenged...bernard brogan had an immense game yesterday...because he is a class player and was abletocope with the attentionof the donegal defenders..at the other end mcfadden couldn't dealwith his 4 defenders...the blanket defences of the early part of this decade had to evolve beacause managers found a way around them...dublin and donegal will now have to evolve their systems too...thats how it works not fiddling with the make upof the teams...hey why don't weintroduce a shotclock to stop teams handpassing the ball up the pitch??...pathetic!

mayotyroneman (Tyrone) - Posts: 1821 - 29/08/2011 17:55:00    1022130

What about the poor auld Sunday morning Junior C lads. Having a 13 a side game in that grade would cripple lads who aren't fit and usually full of porter

Joe Joe (Galway) - Posts: 253 - 29/08/2011 18:33:34    1022160

I was thinking the same today gigoer. It's worth a try, I'd only have it at adult level though, we need all the kids we can playing our games. It would definitely give creative forwards more room.

Pinkie (Wexford) - Posts: 4100 - 29/08/2011 19:03:27    1022186

only thing that needs changing is hand pass rule,only allow one hand pass consectuviley,then kick pass,it do away with this one two hand passing stuff and make defenders kick the ball out of defence

johndoherty25 (Donegal) - Posts: 82 - 29/08/2011 19:52:43    1022233

no wudnt agree wit changing to 13 a side its up to teams and managers to come up with a system to break down these negative tactics

mush15 (Wexford) - Posts: 18 - 29/08/2011 20:18:41    1022279

No need to go to 13 a side. If the game is football then KICK the ball. Watching the new hybrid of gaelic rugby / olympic handball is worse than watching football when the ball is actually kicked.

3feetoftimber (Meath) - Posts: 113 - 29/08/2011 20:36:54    1022307