ah thats were your wrong hag im not a hurling man im a dual supporter.it took 15 years and look at kilkenny footballers your telling me it would not take them that length to get up to where dublin have got in hurling

They havn't an interest in doing it but if they had the no of gaa member and the number of players dublin have playing club hurling in both codes and the money dublin have pumped into it then yes they would..... you are comparing totally different circumstances here.

well put it this way you are trying to imply that every county should get the same amount of money off croke park regardless of population or need,dublin needs more money as it has more people to cater for in terms of playing numbers in coaching why would as you say leitrim need the same amount of coaches

I am imply that counties should get decent money dublin got money from the leinster concil, croke park the clubs and the government aswell (in the form of the sports advisory authority I think their called) it was 5.6 million in the last 4 years outside what they raised from clubs there was also money put in before that. Also it propably would be more costly to put coaches in rural area's as you would need more coaches per head as clubs are dispersed around the county more and your bring logistics into it too. In dublin you have people closer together I outlined Lucan sars there there have a population in about a 10 mile radius of 40,000 people therefore you can get the kids in one place and the coaches can coach more kids. I seen it in the camps there hundreds of kids and 4 or 5 coaches!! Where as out the country you'll have a hand full of kids. That why I outlined the need for centers of excellence which span across a few counties you can just look at the smaller counties in isolation the just don't have the numbers, therefore I don't think the 15 years that was outlined was realistic out in rural non-traditional counties I think you have to look at more like a 20 years plan and money to support it and I'm not sure that will happen. Look at Carlow they were starting to progress but could not sustain it due to funding and numbers, could it be tied to the hurling developement officer that Paudi butler held being scrapped too.

The Gaa was always about the whole of Ireland it seems that now the focus is on high population area's in relation to developement which in fairness you can understand as they get better results from that and promote the game to more people which aint a bad thing but they shouldn't forget about the rest.

My main argue ment here is snuff blowing on about how everyone should copy dublin well that not realistic and a totally different approach is needed for smaller counties.

Hag_and_Cheese (Tipperary) - Posts: 6103 - 16/08/2011 12:29:26    1012075

of nowhere with a population of a couple of hundred where getting state of the art grounds and facilites funded by croke park while

Many of these clubs are bigger clubs who raise the majority of the funds themselves they are nothing like the facilities of the clubs in dublin.... have you seen some of the ground that smaller county hurling teams call home.... they would be considered a third pitch by many dublin teams. I been the athleague in roscommon a hurling heart land and where the county games are played and work there is done mostly by individuals they get little funding and granted they have done great work but it wuld only compare with a decent club ground in dublin (no all-weather facilities either and a poor 2nd pitch).

The weaker counties don't even have the right equipment let alone facilities and coaching so how can you compare them.... dublin have taken it close to professionalism and that has been thanks to money which smaller counties do not have access to in the same degree!

I not slagging off dublin here I commcend them and it great to see their progress, but i take issue with it being stated that all other weaker counties should copy them when the contributing factors are poles apart!!

Hag_and_Cheese (Tipperary) - Posts: 6103 - 16/08/2011 12:44:41    1012084

HAG_AND_CHEESE
County: Tipperary
Posts: 5685

1012084
of nowhere with a population of a couple of hundred where getting state of the art grounds and facilites funded by croke park while

Many of these clubs are bigger clubs who raise the majority of the funds themselves they are nothing like the facilities of the clubs in dublin.... have you seen some of the ground that smaller county hurling teams call home.... they would be considered a third pitch by many dublin teams. I been the athleague in roscommon a hurling heart land and where the county games are played and work there is done mostly by individuals they get little funding and granted they have done great work but it wuld only compare with a decent club ground in dublin (no all-weather facilities either and a poor 2nd pitch).

The weaker counties don't even have the right equipment let alone facilities and coaching so how can you compare them.... dublin have taken it close to professionalism and that has been thanks to money which smaller counties do not have access to in the same degree!

I not slagging off dublin here I commcend them and it great to see their progress, but i take issue with it being stated that all other weaker counties should copy them when the contributing factors are poles apart!!

thats not true the national lotterry and croke park funded nearly all of those grounds and 90 percent of grounds down the country have massive facilites and grounds,you say the facilites iin dublin dublin clubs got little or no funding from the gaa for to buy or build there own pitches they had to do it the hard way by themselves so dont compare dublin club facilites they went and got them themselves,why was the gaa not being fair and spreading the same amount to them clubs outside of dublin and giving dublin clubs a fair share.afterall it was dublin supporters who were pumping the money into the gaa coffers.
yet again i say why do you keep repeating about other counties should not follow dublin blueprint that arguement is not wth me as i never once said that so stop repeating it when you are replying to me

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 16/08/2011 12:57:58    1012093

hag and cheese

The Gaa was always about the whole of Ireland it seems that now the focus is on high population area's in relation to developement which in fairness you can understand as they get better results from that and promote the game to more people which aint a bad thing but they shouldn't forget about the rest.

dont kid yourself pal the guys that run the gaa have always been about money and nothing else they contiue to roll out the speil about parsihes and your local community,but that kind of thing is all a cover,just take ballybough they are the closest community to croke park.the local residents pumped money into the community centre and now what did the country guys running the gaa do they gave them a 1month notice of eviction and didnt give a damn what good it was doing the community

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 16/08/2011 13:02:35    1012100

Jaysus, lads don't destroy the debate!

Perfect10 asked about immalgamating counties to compete in the Liam McCarthy. I'd have no interest in that. We just want to be able to raise our standards & be competitive at a reasonable level. When you're pooling a county team from just 3 clubs it's nearly impossible to do that. We should have 5 or 6 clubs here even if only at underage level & take it from there. By the way, Laois is nowhere near Longford.

Most kids here love hurling as much as (if not more than) football when it's presented on equal terms. If there isn't anyone to coach it in the schools then they'll never have this opportunity. There are 2 full-time & 2 part-time coaches in the county. No hurling coach. In Westmeath there are 9 coaches & they all coach hurling AND football.

keeper7 (Longford) - Posts: 4088 - 16/08/2011 13:32:27    1012139

There are some leafs to be taken out of Dublin's book, regardless of which County we talk about.

1. Have the willingness to actually do it from a County Board point of view. It's a life time commitment not just 5, 10 or 20 yrs.

2. Plan on paper sepcifically what you want to achieve and then map the resources to this plan.

3. Plan based on getting the kids starting between 6 yrs and 10 yrs and let them bubble up through the ages. Means that you need trained coaches they are on continous refresher courses.

These 3 points are the building blocks and then can be applied per the circumstances in each county.

As to the amount of money people saying Dublin are getting. Do not forget how much Dublin generate themselves and invest themselves at club level, and also generate for the GAA as a whole.

No one has come on with figures on whether Dublin from a financial point of view are a net contributor or a net beneficary for the GAA. Everyone simple presumes they are a net beneficary, and I am not sure that is the case.

Also without a clear plan niether the GAA or Irish Sports Council will or should invest!

It is somewhat insulting to the people who have put the time into Dublin Hurling that the only reason they are successful is because they get money!!

witnof (Dublin) - Posts: 1604 - 16/08/2011 13:44:24    1012158

I agree with you, Witnof!

keeper7 (Longford) - Posts: 4088 - 16/08/2011 14:13:06    1012224

HAG,
Yet again: read my quote below regarding the Dublin blueprint:
"They can twist and turn and tweek it as they wish to suit their own needs be they city or country but 'do something' is the point I am making!!"

Yet again, what part of the above plain English do you continually fail to understand??!!
........you keep harping on in every post that Snuffy says the Dublin blueprint will work for every county when I have clearly said, and I quote for you again: "They can twist and turn and tweek it as they wish to suit their own needs be they city or country but 'do something'"!!!! Now how clear is that for you!!!

Very hard to debate with a man who clearly doesnt bother to even read and properly assimilate what his oppo is saying but rather prefers to run off at the mouth with his own argument!!

Regards,

Snufalufagus....Laochra Gael

Snufalufagus (Dublin) - Posts: 8100 - 16/08/2011 14:21:20    1012238

Snuff:

I'll also read your posts previous to that where you basically had a go at other counties

Some years ago, ex Antrim manager McNaughton went on a fact finding mission to KK to find out what structures they have in place!!!.....talk about 'jumping the gun' a bit!!......

Why did he not go to Dublin and see what model that county had put in place as a blueprint for the future and copy the plan for submission to croker for funding and approval??!

Every county seems to want a quick fix to get them to the top level and wants to emulate Dublins progress!!!......Time to wake up lads, Dublins plan for success started 15 years ago!!......ye should have been proactive back then!....not now!.....unless ye are prepared to wait that long and build from today!.....if ye have the patience!!

Dublin saw what St kierans were doing and they copied it and thanks to dublin colleges in close proximity it worked that is not much of an option down the county in smaller counties where secondary schools can be 50 or 60 miles apart. You seem to think that people in other counties are doing nothing. The fact that dublin are now competeing has a hell of a lot to do with money and also the fact that they can get numbers throught the gate do you not see this with your own club, cause I've seen it first hand and the fact that close to 40,000 people live in lucan is one of the reason granted the lads on the grounds have to get a lot of credit but they had the potential has they had the numbers on their door steps.

Hill 16:

Here's a few articles to show how well dublin benefitted from funding
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2011/0702/1224299938169.html
http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/euro59m-investment-key-to-dublinrsquos-drive-for-success-2842894.html

If other counties cannot get funding then dublin will dominate the game in the years to come I know you won't be complaining but the game has moved on in the last few years and is getting more and more professional and it the samller counties which will suffer.... dublin were classed as a weaker county but in reality they should not have been giving the resources and players they have the potentential to develope.... and finally now that they decided to do this ye want a pat on the back other counties with smaller populations have been doing it for years on shoestring budgets. Dublin have finally got it going now it time to focus on other counties and the model dublin used will not work and the money needed could possibly be vastly more. True enough the man mentality has changed in the gaa but that is not what it started with and their has to be clear goals set not to marginalise smaller communities in ireland, as the gaa club is the only thing many small rural area's have.

Hag_and_Cheese (Tipperary) - Posts: 6103 - 16/08/2011 15:03:57    1012306

Hag_and_Cheese..........you have the Cheese in the name and now you have a good old whine to go with in.

Re the articles you quoted you also forgot to mention that the deal was over 5 years and Dublin had to stump up the other have of the money. No mean investment on Dublin's have.

Your basic proposition is that Dulbin get all the money. Why do you presume, even with the investment, that Dublin generate no money for the GAA?

witnof (Dublin) - Posts: 1604 - 16/08/2011 15:12:22    1012315

keeper7
County: Longford
Posts: 412

1012139 Jaysus, lads don't destroy the debate!

-------------------

Think that happened about 2 pages ago!

Pinkie (Wexford) - Posts: 4100 - 16/08/2011 15:29:19    1012332

witnof:

Sorry boss I said nothing of the sort, Dublin did get money but dublin can also generate vast amount of money this thread is about developing hurling in weaker counties and this was done and fueled by money and the numbers playing the game in dublin..... My simlpe point is that smaller weaker counties cannot generate such money and also have not been given that sort of money..... so if they can gererate revenue then they should be forgotten about??

I also made the point because of that the "blueprint" which snuff outlined simply is not feasible in respect to smaller populations and smaller non-traditional counties and he seems to look down on other counties that can't do the same.

Dublin have a vast amount of advantages which other counties don't have in getting people playing hurling so you can't compare the two.

Pinkie:

Bit harsh there mate is this not about hurling developement in weaker counties well I'm saying what was done in dublin can't be done the same way in smaller counties, and writing people becuase they can't do it with less resources and less people isn't fair..... at least give them the sort of financial support to do something there are hurling teams and the counties team itself that get no support and that has to change first and it all starts with money!!

Hag_and_Cheese (Tipperary) - Posts: 6103 - 16/08/2011 15:40:52    1012345

I've read through most of the posts in this topic & have to say reading cuchulainn35's posts have been an education.

It's great to hear from someone working at developing hurling in a weaker county and cuchulainn35 makes some very valid points.

slayer (Limerick) - Posts: 6490 - 16/08/2011 15:41:51    1012348

When was the last time we saw a referee from a so called weaker county referee a major hurling match, apart from kelly from westmeath and devlin from armagh(minor final) referees from weaker counties do get overlooked - are they no good or croke park are afraid of the 'sure their from a weaker county' argument

cuchulainn35 (Armagh) - Posts: 1691 - 16/08/2011 15:42:11    1012351

Hag:

Its all relative.

DCB has more expenses.

You mentioned that Dublin clubs have better facilities than country ones, however, for every big club with great facilities in Dublin there are 15/20 smaller clubs trying to survive.

The money people are quoting is meaningless. The DCB have taken the money they get from the GAA every year and have spent it how they saw fit. Dublin get a larger split of this money than most counties because they need more. In real terms everyone gets the same relative to there number of clubs.

One thing you said which is 100% correct however. The structure was always there in Dublin as almost every club is a dual club anyway. In other weaker counties that is not the case.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13833 - 16/08/2011 15:44:27    1012353

Sorry Hag it just seemed to have descended into a tit-for-tat argument with lengthy posts and the like. Didnt mean anything by it!

Pinkie (Wexford) - Posts: 4100 - 16/08/2011 15:47:09    1012357

If other counties cannot get funding then dublin will dominate the game in the years to come I know you won't be complaining but the game has moved on in the last few years and is getting more and more professional and it the samller counties which will suffer.... dublin were classed as a weaker county but in reality they should not have been giving the resources and players they have the potentential to develope.... and finally now that they decided to do this ye want a pat on the back o

hag and cheese

its funny your saying this now when dublin are getting strong at all levels nobody was complaining when tipp or kilkenny wer dominating all levels.
yet again hag why ae you saying i want a pat on the back i never once said that.why would i want other countys to follow dublins plans and get success then that would make it harder on dublin to win.
the gaa have spent money well in dublin unlike the waste of stadiums in cork and kerry and limerick that are not used and have far too big capacitys for countys that get 5 or 6 thousand attendances you seem to forget that no money has been spent on a stadium in dublin unlike down your way where they spent millions on them stadiums

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 16/08/2011 15:50:01    1012366

Yeah, I'd be keen to hear more from cuchulainn35 about what's happening in Armagh & Ulster with regards to hurling development. Let's just say I have a "vested" interest in such things but prefer to retain anonymity as it's easier then to be honsest & frank with my opinions.

keeper7 (Longford) - Posts: 4088 - 16/08/2011 15:57:15    1012382

MesAmis:

It might cost them more but I'd be interested to know if dublin were running a deficite in how much it cost them to finance the senior teams last year, a hell of a lot of counties did have.
You say dublin need more but they need more to compete at both codes isn't this the main part of the arguement the smaller counties do not get enough to fund the same thing. If this was a professional sport grand they be gone out of business but the is an amature sport.

Don't get me wrong it great to see dublin there but the focus now needs to move further afield and they way it has to be done is totally different to what dublin have done as there are different issue in other counties that effect it.

Pinkie:
Sorry if it came across that way but I just took issue with snuff making out all that other counties have to do is copy dublin and slagged counties off for looking at the kilkenny structure when that was the exact same roots of the dublin revival.... momemtum took over then when they had numbers behind it.

Hag_and_Cheese (Tipperary) - Posts: 6103 - 16/08/2011 15:58:40    1012386

HAG_AND_CHEESE
County: Tipperary
Posts: 5688

The DCB have created a very strong brand with Dublin GAA and therefore we do have more money to play with but that comes from the counties own work. Maybe we should get less central funding from the GAA because we can generate more money ourselves? Is that punishing a county for being successful? (Obviously though not ultimate success on the pitch but the Dublin GAA brand is the strongest individual sporting brand in the city).

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13833 - 16/08/2011 16:09:00    1012401