hill16no1man:

Also another point it is cheaper to develope a football county team to a decent standard than it is to develope a hurling county team, smaller counties simply don't have that sort of money.

Hag_and_Cheese (Tipperary) - Posts: 6103 - 15/08/2011 19:51:31    1011736

Think Snuffy and Pinkie hit the nail on the head. Hurling development is a 20 year project. Putting a full time coach into a county like Longford would be a complete waste of money. Sorry but that is the truth of it. What might be worthwhile, is if 1 coach could look after maybe 15 clubs who CARE about and put significant resources into hurling in 4-5 counties, and maybe these counties could also join forces for 10 years and compete.
Keeper7 give us your opinion on the following - if Longford were to join forces with for example Cavan, Westmeath and Laois how would hurling people like yourself in one of these counties feel about such an arrangement? Let say between these 4 counties they could find good enough hurlers to compete in the Liam McCarthy cup? It would even take a few years to be up to the level of the top counties, but would be a start at least.

perfect10 (Wexford) - Posts: 3929 - 15/08/2011 20:10:23    1011754

hill16no1man:
P.s are you still tealling me that dublin have got no funds from the leinster council or croke park...... No seriously now are ya??

I just think it rich trying to make out ye've done it all yerselves when that's not the case, granted I not a football man so I wouldn't be blowing on about the success the tipp footballers are having underage but that is due to getting help from out side and copying other counties, ye seem to think that dublin have made a new blueprint well they havn;t they only copied what was successful in other counties and have the player resources and financial resources to push it through fair play to ye, and to say that all counties should now copy ye is a bit rich (pardon the pun) becuase they don;t have the members players and ultimately the money that ye have and until at least the money situation can be leveled that is the way it will stay

what are you on about i have never said once dublin have made a blue print or ever mentioned anything like that,i di not say if they copied or didnt copy any other county at all.do i get you right on the last point about leveling money you think dublin should give money to other countys so they can develop hurling in them countys are you serious why on earth would anybody do that?

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 15/08/2011 20:34:47    1011770

HAG_AND_CHEESE
County: Tipperary
Posts: 5678

1011733
hill16no1man
County: Dublin
Posts: 935

1011041
croke park or the gaa gave no money towards dublin coaching at underage thats a disgrace to say that as dublin have worked through marketing and advertising to get the money and bring hurling up to a higher level

Right is that not exactly what you said earlier in the thread??? Dublin have done well out of funding from croke park and the leinster council at least admit that

my point is hurling only people are the ones who are actualy holding the game back in weaker countys they have a real problem with football instead of focusing on hurling there trying to compete with football instead of competing with other hurling countys

Your being a bit hypocritical now I know for a fact as recent as 2 years ago that the same complaints were being make at county board meeting in dublin and now because dublin are being successful that's all been forgotten.... the simple fact is that dublin dosen't have to choose as they can easily be successful at both smaller counties do not have that luxury.

hag you seem to miss my exact point you say dublin have done well from croke park and leinster council funding answer me this where do you think croke park and the leinster council got money from in the first place?answer gate receipts and who from the year 2000 up till 2009 filled croke park the dublin footballers so tahts where they got the money so in all fairness dublin should recieve more money as they bring in far more cash then other countys to both the gaa and the leinster council.

eh did you not see my other comment about humphrey kellegher i did not anywhere state what countys i said hurling people only in weaker counties,i dont agree with that kind of crap talk from him in dublin and i said that if people in weraker countys concentrated on the positives in hurling and building froma success of a team first and not worrying about competing with football they wouldd be far better off

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 15/08/2011 20:43:18    1011776

HAG_AND_CHEESE
County: Tipperary
Posts: 5678

1011736
hill16no1man:

Also another point it is cheaper to develope a football county team to a decent standard than it is to develope a hurling county team, smaller counties simply don't have that sort of money.

on what basis

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 15/08/2011 20:44:44    1011778

15/08/2011 20:10:23
perfect10
County: Wexford
Posts: 222

1011754
Think Snuffy and Pinkie hit the nail on the head. Hurling development is a 20 year project. Putting a full time coach into a county like Longford would be a complete waste of money. Sorry but that is the truth of it. What might be worthwhile, is if 1 coach could look after maybe 15 clubs who CARE about and put significant resources into hurling in 4-5 counties, and maybe these counties could also join forces for 10 years and compete.
Keeper7 give us your opinion on the following - if Longford were to join forces with for example Cavan, Westmeath and Laois how would hurling people like yourself in one of these counties feel about such an arrangement? Let say between these 4 counties they could find good enough hurlers to compete in the Liam McCarthy cup? It would even take a few years to be up to the level of the top counties, but would be a start at least.

_____________________________

Laois and Westmeath already compete in the McCarthy cup.

JuanPeron (Westmeath) - Posts: 177 - 15/08/2011 20:51:19    1011787

HAG,

To quote myself: "Dublin have the big clubs and had the hurling structure there already so it was easy for us to use a big gun as a blueprint for development"
...........Ehh, your so busy running off at the mouth making numerous posts to every point, what part of the above quote written in plain English do you not understand????.......except you run off at the mouth telling me that we didnt make up this 'blueprint' ourselves, we copied someone else!!!!.....is that not what I just said in the above quote lad????........open yer eyes and read the plain English lad!!

Once again:
I am not promoting the Dublin success as a stick to beat others with, I am using it as a stick for others to pick up and run with!! They can twist and turn and tweek it as they wish to suit their own needs be they city or country but 'do something' is the point I am making!! How brilliant would it be to have Antrim, Laois, Carlow and Westmeath where Dublin are in years to come??

Speaking of Roscommon, I know the few hurling clubs in the south of that county, just like their are in north mayo and north kerry etc (are you trying to tell me I dont know where pockets of hurling can be found lad?!) but Roscommon is a football county and Im sure you can tell me of their rural 'football only' clubs in the north of that county that are struggling to field a football team let alone have any hurling development officer who would be standing about like nobodys child in all fairness and the old club members running him outta the place for daring to compete with football and ruin the place that can hardy field a football team in the first place!!

Pinkie agrees with me!
So what do you think HAG?
You have been running down every suggestion I think of including telling me about your own clubs fortunes!

So lets take the roscommon hurling clubs HAG, you tell me what do we do with them??
What the solution?
They are small and rural, will they ever make it out of Connaught?
Are they destined to only ever make it 'so far' and the best of luck to them!
My 'Dublin suggestion' clearly wont work, but you are the expert on rural affairs so you tell me!!

Right now I believe that the counties targeted should be Antrim, Carlow, Laois (the one time hurling county turned football), and they can develop a plan to take 20 years and develop it in WHATEVER WAY THEY WANT to promote hurling in their counties!!

But dont go anywhere HAG without answering my question above! Your the expert on rural affairs so how do you halp those roscommon hurling clubs????!!!!!

Regards,

Snufalufagus....Laochra Gael

Snufalufagus (Dublin) - Posts: 8100 - 15/08/2011 21:14:52    1011807

croke park or the gaa gave no money towards dublin coaching at underage thats a disgrace to say that as dublin have worked through marketing and advertising to get the money and bring hurling up to a higher level

I highlighted where I think you are implying that they have done it all themselves, You are saying that all the money they spend is throught marketing etc. the fact is that they have gotten money from the leinster council and croke park and proportionally other counties have as well but the sort of money they get simply isn't near enough, you made the point about the marketing etc. true enough they makes them a fair amount and also the funds that dublin clubs generate is massive too why then should they be getting that sort of money from the leinster council and croke park too it is badly needed by the weaker counties counties should not be separate entities within the gaa and becuase the dubs may generate more revenue dosen't mean they get the money divided proportionally that is knida like a level of professionalism in distributing funds.

The point I was making is that snuff is saying that counties should adopt the dublin blueprint as he makes out well without money and the level of membership that dublin have that model is just not feasible and that is the main reason why they focus on 1 game. 2 years ago as I outlined in county board meeting officals were complaining about the funding the hurlers which is worse that what is being done in smaller counties now as dublin have a massive budget and also the player resources too. You go to a county like sligo or leitrim with a population of 30,000/40,000 and tell me how they can compete finance wise and implement the model dublin has in relation to both codes it just not possible and until they can get the money for a start that is not going to change and it will not change as the game gets more and more profressional. I'm grateful that we have the population and the resources to compete at the top in one code and the potential in another but I realise other counties can't do that and I think it patronizing to say so and also to say that the dubs don't get funding. I could only imagine what we could do with the resources dublin have financially and membership wise and that is my in my opinion dublin are one of the underachievers in the Gaa, the simple fact is ye should be at the top in both codes, looks like it only took ye 130 odd years to finally cop how to do it, it should have happened a long time ago!!!

Hag_and_Cheese (Tipperary) - Posts: 6103 - 15/08/2011 21:15:39    1011808

Hill16 I am not getting involved in your debate with Hag but it is alot easier for Dublin to fill Croke Park than any other county, population tells you that plus ye do not have to travel 3 hours to get to a match the fact is us country folk even though we don't fill croke park all the time (like yerselves it must be said) spend more money going to croker for one game than a Dublin person spends going to 2 possibly 3 games. So come down of your high horse there like a good lad

tipptothetop (Tipperary) - Posts: 531 - 15/08/2011 21:21:16    1011814

HAG_AND_CHEESE
County: Tipperary
Posts: 5678

1011736
hill16no1man:

Also another point it is cheaper to develope a football county team to a decent standard than it is to develope a hurling county team, smaller counties simply don't have that sort of money.

on what basis

Ahh come on will ya your a hurling man and ye've stated that it has taken the hurlers 15 years to get to this level are you seriously saying it takes that long in football... I'll use tipp as an example after 5/6 years developement their now at level where they are winning titles at underage!!

Hag_and_Cheese (Tipperary) - Posts: 6103 - 15/08/2011 21:21:56    1011816

previous post has some valid points such as some of the dublin clubs are very large with great financial resources or potential, although this doesn't guarantee sucess it does help, in armagh craobh rua lease a pitch and doesn't have a bar, cuchulainn's have no field of their own, the same for Sean Tracey's, but there is great work going on-

i remember when i was young only 2 or 3 teams competed at u-16 or minor champinship, now there is the 8 armagh clubs plus carrickmore and dungannon from tyrone and lisbelaw of fermanagh, and dundalk, which gives increased competition.

the ulster council has a hurling league from division 1 to division 5, small steps but they do work. The village of inniskeen in monaghan won their first ever Co. senior title last year after only forming hurling in the early 90's in a hurling stronghold. c. cummings antrim was employed as a hurling officer in the local promary schools,
as a previous poster says it must start with the under 8's

cuchulainn35 (Armagh) - Posts: 1691 - 15/08/2011 21:29:35    1011819

snuffy- you are quite right. Two years ago we here in Cavan submitted a ten year plan for the development of juvenile hurling. Six months later a new county board chairman arrived on the scene and some of his first actions were to disband the hurling board, make redundant our only hurling development officer and this year pull the senior side out of competition all this without a plan of his own to help develop the game. They are the same as all the other "weaker counties" county board, take the money for development but never spend it on hurling. We try but unless there is action from the top down we cannot escape our predicament. We are beholding to people who do not care one jot for hurling. All we do now is coach the game as a pastime as we have not the help to take it more seriously however much more we would like to.

breffni666 (Cavan) - Posts: 294 - 15/08/2011 21:34:13    1011826

Snufalufagus:

What dose he agree with that all counties can follow the dublin model... my point is they can't. How many clubs have you in dublin how many underage clubs do you have togging out I think ballyboden have something like 6 u12 teams some counties alone do not have 6 u12 teams.....

Hurlinf is strong in those 4 clubs in roscommon and they have a junior all-ireland title to match, what needs to be done is give them the money to develope the game and they will get to a level but them will never compete at the level dublin can at both codes as they do not have the no. of players or pool of players to pick from.

Hill16:

Are you implying that the money county boards get should be dependant on attendance???? that fair alright right with if everyone went to a game froma smaller county they still wouldn't half fill croker and dublin never play away from home

Hag_and_Cheese (Tipperary) - Posts: 6103 - 15/08/2011 21:58:46    1011857

Exactly breffni666,
You agree with me just like pinkie from wexford.

But dont say anything, because HAG is the only one thats allowed to be right around here when it comes to hurling talk!

A great lad for running down others while never giving his own solution to the weaker county/rural problem, just lambased other who offer up a suggestion!!!

Regards,

Snufalufagus....Laochra Gael

Snufalufagus (Dublin) - Posts: 8100 - 15/08/2011 21:58:53    1011858

Snuff:

My point is your saying that other counties should copy ye when that not possible, I agree it a ling time scale to develope a team but conties know that and do not have to funds to do it. Dublin copied St. Kiernan's in kilkenny initially when O'Donell saw what they do. They are a bording school so can get players from a wide area dublin decided to do the same but getting players from colleges in a small area.

Take your own club for example the population of lucan is around 38,000 in a small area the can get the numbers in you mentioned amalgamation of teams well that's not even enough you join two parishes with small populations of say 800 people each your still not near competeing and it would be hard to join up schools aswell due to logistics. What needs to be done is look at setting up centers of excellence spanning many counties and give younsters access to the facilities and training they need. You also need to get coaches out there to coach small numbers of people in rural area's. It easier to do this in dublin as you can have coaches for large numbers of kids in a small area. All this needs money which counties do not have and look at the money dublin have got from the leinster council, sports advisory (government) and croke park and also add to that the funds the clubs generate themselves. Dublin have several "super clubs" that are now driving this on something smaller counties can't do.

Also added to this look at paudai butler his position hasn't been filled and won't be filled so how dose that help. The gaa focus at present seems to be on the high population area's and the smaller area will suffer granted it generates money but will this money ever filter down especially they way things are going now.

I thinhk there needs to be a separateing in how hurling and football are developed (different boards with the county) I think roscommon already do this be the funds the get are tiny. There are a few people doing great work there with the small amount they have but therer not much they can do other than that. To say that counties need to do what dublin do is rediculas there are different factors and influeency things.... There you go is that a good enough description of what I think should be done.

Hag_and_Cheese (Tipperary) - Posts: 6103 - 16/08/2011 09:58:26    1011909

A million a year over six years will seem like an obscene amount to alot of counties but as one poster said if Dublin have raised most of it themselves then good luck to them. I believe alot of dublin clubs may have got money for land in the boom times which may be a help.

Curremtly I dont believe the interst or player nukbers are in mayo (for example) to really raise hurling to high level. That said if coaches are brought into schools, this can change.

yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 11690 - 16/08/2011 10:19:59    1011925

tipptothetop
County: Tipperary
Posts: 340

1011814
Hill16 I am not getting involved in your debate with Hag but it is alot easier for Dublin to fill Croke Park than any other county, population tells you that plus ye do not have to travel 3 hours to get to a match the fact is us country folk even though we don't fill croke park all the time (like yerselves it must be said) spend more money going to croker for one game than a Dublin person spends going to 2 possibly 3 games. So come down of your high horse there like a good lad

im not saying it aint easier for dublin to fill croke park your right it is in dublin so yes easier to get to but my point is not croke park specific,take all the championship games played outside of dublin you rarely saw a ground full over the last 10 years like cork or kerry for example for all there success in munster in football they never get a decent crowd for amatch other then a final.i for one am against bringing 2 countys up to croke park when a game like kerry v limerick could be played in thurles but there is my point if that match was played in thurles you still wouldnt get anymore then 10 thousand as limerick played kerry at home earlier in the championship only got 6 thousand.not on ahigh horse but country clubs have benifited very well in getting money off the gaa as a result of the money brought in from dublin supporters

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 16/08/2011 12:01:38    1012033

HAG_AND_CHEESE
County: Tipperary
Posts: 5682

1011816
HAG_AND_CHEESE
County: Tipperary
Posts: 5678

1011736
hill16no1man:

Also another point it is cheaper to develope a football county team to a decent standard than it is to develope a hurling county team, smaller counties simply don't have that sort of money.

on what basis

Ahh come on will ya your a hurling man and ye've stated that it has taken the hurlers 15 years to get to this level are you seriously saying it takes that long in football... I'll use tipp as an example after 5/6 years developement their now at level where they are winning titles at underage!!

ah thats were your wrong hag im not a hurling man im a dual supporter.it took 15 years and look at kilkenny footballers your telling me it would not take them that length to get up to where dublin have got in hurling

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 16/08/2011 12:04:34    1012038

HAG_AND_CHEESE
County: Tipperary
Posts: 5682

1011857
Snufalufagus:

What dose he agree with that all counties can follow the dublin model... my point is they can't. How many clubs have you in dublin how many underage clubs do you have togging out I think ballyboden have something like 6 u12 teams some counties alone do not have 6 u12 teams.....

Hurlinf is strong in those 4 clubs in roscommon and they have a junior all-ireland title to match, what needs to be done is give them the money to develope the game and they will get to a level but them will never compete at the level dublin can at both codes as they do not have the no. of players or pool of players to pick from.

Hill16:

Are you implying that the money county boards get should be dependant on attendance???? that fair alright right with if everyone went to a game froma smaller county they still wouldn't half fill croker and dublin never play away from home

well put it this way you are trying to imply that every county should get the same amount of money off croke park regardless of population or need,dublin needs more money as it has more people to cater for in terms of playing numbers in coaching why would as you say leitrim need the same amount of coaches when they dont have the population for it.if you put as much into the gaas hands we should get more back out of it,as for years dublin clubs were not getting a fair deal from the gaa as clubs out in the middle of nowhere with a population of a couple of hundred where getting state of the art grounds and facilites funded by croke park while clubs in dublin had to work off of council and corporation pitches and generate the money to build new grounds themselves

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 16/08/2011 12:10:54    1012049

Hurling was making great strides here in Cavan and now look.at us

ochonlir (Cavan) - Posts: 4343 - 16/08/2011 12:13:21    1012052