I have to agree with you Nick... you make a case that I agree with you on... A lot of players, particularly forwards in hurling are now taking too many steps. This should be penalised with a free, by all referees.

I believe that a defender must be given fair play too, his close shadowing-tackling should be rewarded when his man does not play the ball. The player in possession should be penalised when he overcarries. Defenders may resort to other tactics if the referee does not implement the rule that is there. I believe that the player in possession has 4 steps and this is enough to move the ball on.

Players in hurling had 3 steps for years and now have 4! Let them move on the ball when they have stepped 4.

Look at small players.... many use about up to 9 steps and they very often get away with it!!! A Kerry football forward comes to mind!!!

carlowman (Carlow) - Posts: 1881 - 21/06/2011 21:31:44    962470

Callinan took about 15 steps against Clare before putting it over the bar in the first half. it was a joke. The ref gave Clare nothing all day

LohansRedHelmet (Clare) - Posts: 2697 - 22/06/2011 09:06:47    962550

Loads do it. Tommy Walsh takes loads. O Halpin always took more than allowed. Its the same with Cooper in football. The big name guys aren't gonna get blown up for overcarrying.

icehonesty (Wexford) - Posts: 2581 - 22/06/2011 10:34:00    962610

To ask the question more directly, is there anything wrong with the steps rule as it stands?

Consistantcy of the calls i think is should be the time judge by the amount of time a player has the ball in hand.

Lohansredhelmet:
The thing is he had the ball on the hurley for much of those 15 steps.

Hag_and_Cheese (Tipperary) - Posts: 6103 - 22/06/2011 16:04:10    963065

I had an underage coach who constantly told us to not to put the ball on the hurl just after taking it into the hand. A lot of us had a tendency to put the ball on the hurl almost instantly.

He drilled it into us to take as much out of the ball as possible before using it (either strike or solo).

Its something that I've definitely used in coaching myself. Its simple get yourself as far away from trouble before you can possibly be dispossessed. If that means taking a few extra steps so be it because the ref will usually let you away with it.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13833 - 22/06/2011 19:09:12    963321

MesAmis
County: Dublin
Posts: 3354
Spot on only at a coaching session this evening very same thing was been drilled into the lads, take your steps then put the ball on the hurley.

Just on too many steps, i think a lot of ref's are taking the easy way and blowing up for steps when the player is in fact been physically impeded and held. The new fine art of wrapping the hurley around the opponents neck from behind is also somehow mysteriously never blown up. But the reality id if a ref was to blow the whistle for every single violation it would be the ruination of the game.

arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4956 - 22/06/2011 21:16:15    963436

mesamis:

I had an underage coach who constantly told us to not to put the ball on the hurl just after taking it into the hand. A lot of us had a tendency to put the ball on the hurl almost instantly.

That's excellent coaching you put the ball on the hurl and then into the hand your limiting the amout of space you can move into..... hurling for me is all about limiting the touches on the hurl..... I see too many players wanting to control the ball on the hurl when it comming at them (pa bourke from tipp always does it) catch the bleeding ball make the space and then make a decision on what to do with it, trying to control it on the hurl gives your marker that extra pace or two to tackle!

Hag_and_Cheese (Tipperary) - Posts: 6103 - 22/06/2011 21:59:40    963496

I was taught to get the ball into the hand, make up your mind which way you are going to go and just burst out that direction with your stick acting as a shield. If the opposition is holding you back, keep pumping the legs until you are clear before making an honest attempt to touch the sliotar of the stick or drive it away. I think hurling is perfect the way it is, so I would prefer no rule changes. At the same time I have noticed county players appear to get away with overcarrying when in attack. It is up to the ref to be consistent during each game in my opinion.

Suas Sios (None) - Posts: 1558 - 23/06/2011 08:56:02    963516

Fair 'nuff Hag, consistency in the rule is the least we can ask for and perhaps more focus should be put on that but I still think changing the rule is unnecessary & inviting of trouble at this point

gigoer (Wexford) - Posts: 1998 - 23/06/2011 10:04:59    963554

'Alot of the top hurling teams seem to take as many steps as they want'

which would imply a favourtism towards bigger teams. May not be what you meant, but that's another discussion in any case.

Pinkie again that's ur interpretation. I never said that anybody favoured them . Just wondered if it might be a tactic. I never said that they got any favours. The fact that it is not policed very well is a different story. Basically I said that the likes of wexford didn't seem to take advantage of this tactic if indeed it is a tactic. And I implied that maybe other teams need to take that into consideration when looking at tactics. I think an extra couple of steps gives a guy a huge advantage in the game. It gives u that extra few steps to get out of trouble, make a bit of room for yourself to pick off a point or get around an opposition player.

Nick (Wexford) - Posts: 1100 - 23/06/2011 12:42:32    963692

Er, in Pinkie's defence, I said that, not her.

You've already addressed it in a previous post anyway and the discussion has gone beyond that now, we were referring to steps as a matter of tactic rather than favourtism

gigoer (Wexford) - Posts: 1998 - 23/06/2011 12:55:44    963709

Just on too many steps, i think a lot of ref's are taking the easy way and blowing up for steps when the player is in fact been physically impeded and held. The new fine art of wrapping the hurley around the opponents neck from behind is also somehow mysteriously never blown up. But the reality id if a ref was to blow the whistle for every single violation it would be the ruination of the game.

I don't agree if the refs start blowing it up eventually the players will get the message. So basically u are saying allow players cheat because if we stop them from cheating then we will ruin the game. That's just not logical. It's a bit like turning a blind eye.
Again if Wexford were beaten in the final minute by a fella taking 7 steps I'd be peeved.
Why bother having rules at all, just let the ref decide before he goes out what he is going to do on the day. This is one of the reasons that people complain about refs. One day players go out and the ref let's these things go. Players get the idea that it all good but next day they go out and play a different ref is constantly blowing it up. Everybody complains that he is ruining the game with all the frees. The thing is the guy who refereed the week before is to blame.

Nick (Wexford) - Posts: 1100 - 23/06/2011 12:56:16    963711

Nick I think you're losing it a bit here, misdirecting quotes back to the wrong purveyor & you seem to be going a bit mental at arock there

I think his point was (and correct me if I'm wrong arock) that while inconsistency in the steps rule is unfavourable, so is blowing up for a free everytime a player under pressure takes 5 steps - if that was the case, the game would be blown practically everytime players are scrambling for a loose ball and then try to get away from their opponent

We all praise referees who aren't too whistle-happy and let games flow & I think arock may have that in mind when he made his comment

But I'm open to correction, arock.....

gigoer (Wexford) - Posts: 1998 - 23/06/2011 13:12:34    963738

To be fair this is a discussion and we don't have to agree about it.
I can understand about ruining a game with constantly blowing things up but the rules are there to ensure consistency and that each team gets a fair shot. Without consistency I cannot see how things can be fair. It's one thing missing things in a game it's another to ignore the rules. If the rules are ignored then there is no consistency as every ref will have their own interpretation.

Nick (Wexford) - Posts: 1100 - 23/06/2011 13:26:16    963774

Nick I'm not asking you to agree, just relax a little, that's all

I suppose it's a matter of perspective - rules are rules but I think it's very difficult to scientifically apply them all perfectly in GAA, it's simply too fast and furious a sport, so I prefer a ref who uses his discretion & initiative not to stop a game for every little thing and let the game flow as much as possible

That said, I agree with you in that it would be nice for consistency in applying rules but that is always a tall order, as referees are only human beings who differ from each other, some use discretion, others apply the rules very strictly, hence some refs are better than others depending on your point of view

It's apparent that I don't really see the enormity of the steps rule as you do, you say you would be peeved if Wexford lost due to someone scoring a goal after taking 7 steps - well how often do you see that happening, as a matter of fact, when did you see that happen?

At the end of it all, the steps rule is not nearly as troublesome as cards for jostling off the ball, the ref not using umpires, square ball etc etc

gigoer (Wexford) - Posts: 1998 - 23/06/2011 13:44:11    963807

To me it is every bit as big as the issues you mentioned. I saw a Dublin player turn twice and take at least 9 steps before stroking the ball over the cross bar in the game against Galway (and to be honest the defender wasnt hanging out of him or anything). To me that's just crazy. You again read into my email and constantly tell me to relax. I am very relaxed here, it's just a discussion you obviously find having discussions stressful. I raised this post as it was an interesting discussion to see if people agreed. To be fair I would think that everybody has basically agreed that players do take a lot more steps than allowed at times but most people don't seem to have a problem with it.
I actually don't have a problem with players taking more steps but I think it should be implemented in the rules if this is to be the case and not leaving it so inconsistent.

Nick (Wexford) - Posts: 1100 - 23/06/2011 14:14:08    963865

Don't psycho-analyse me Nick, your insistence that we don't have to agree looked aggressive in nature and that's why I was telling you to cool it, I already said that we don't have to agree, that certainly does not make me stressed about it, I am quite enjoying this discussion as a matter of fact, considering the amount of nonsense that people put up on this forum

Anyhoo, as I said we don't have to agree, however, like you I would agree & prefer to see more consistency in applying the steps rule or any other rule for that matter but I do not realistically think that's going to happen to a huge extent - as I said all refs are human and therefore different, you can't remove the human element so different refs are going to referee games in different ways - I have my doubts it will ever reach the consistency that you are seemingly looking for

where we shall have to agree to disagree is that I can't see the steps rule ever being as prominently featured as the other issues I've described, square balls, points waved as wides or vice versa, umpires not consulted etc etc - you hear about those things almost every couple of games, but rarely do you hear a violation of the steps rule adversely affecting the outcome of a match as those issues

gigoer (Wexford) - Posts: 1998 - 23/06/2011 14:45:44    963930

a huge issue I have is players leaning into a hurley that comes over their shoulder/across chest in order to wrap it around their next to win a free

feigning a foul should be implemented as a yellow card

valley84 (Westmeath) - Posts: 1905 - 23/06/2011 16:17:28    964064

gigoer:

Don't psycho-analyse me Nick, your insistence that we don't have to agree looked aggressive in nature and that's why I was telling you to cool it,

Seems to be a trend in nicks posting..... don't mind him!!

Hag_and_Cheese (Tipperary) - Posts: 6103 - 23/06/2011 16:52:46    964117

Nick:

I raised this post as it was an interesting discussion to see if people agreed.

Wonce again not many people do no surprise there!!

Hag_and_Cheese (Tipperary) - Posts: 6103 - 23/06/2011 16:55:45    964121