It is very obvious that a large cross section of Irish society regard themselves as Irish but do not regard themselves as Christian and that is how it should be. If Christianity was what its founders wished Christians would not regard themselves as anything but Christian.

derryman (Derry) - Posts: 3246 - 14/02/2011 19:15:32    867744

The longest we, me not included please, can have been christian is 2000 years, ireland has been here several thousand years. are you suggesting we abandon this imported christianity nonsense and go back to our true roots or are you trying to rewrite or obliterate our history

Nonsensical argument Dhorse, I'd have expected better from you.

What I'm saying is very simple. Ireland is a Christian nation. The overwhelming majority of Irish people subscribe to the Christian faith. For over 1,600 years, it has played an enormously influential role in shaping our nation's culture and traditions. It's influenced the Irish language. It has influenced Irish customs and holidays. It's has influenced Irish holidays-in case you haven't noticed, our three main ones are Christmas, Easter, and St. Patrick's Day.

Even now, in our more secular society, Christianity still plays a huge role in Irish life. Births are marked with baptisms, deaths by Christian burial. Most marriages are performed in Christian churches. Probably the two most important events in the average child's life are First Holy Communion and Confirmation. Prayer is still hugely important to all sorts of people, church attendance is still high, customs such as climbing Croagh Patrick or spending time in Lough Derg are if anything becoming more popular.

The fact is we are a Christian nation. We have been for 1,600 years and no matter what you think of religion that is the truth. Paganism died out, or was incorporated into Christianity, long long ago. I'm not saying people should scream 'I'm a Christian' from the rooftops. But when the Christian culture is under attack by Muslims and secularists, I think it's appropriate that people take a stand and defend it.

What are the alternatives? The atheistic hell that was the Soviet Union? The sharia law hell that is Saudi Arabia? Our Christian country, where everyone is free to practice or not to practice their religion, is a lot lot better than that.

Seamus89 (Kilkenny) - Posts: 3848 - 14/02/2011 19:46:25    867762

derryman
County: Derry
Posts: 2261

867730 We should not confuse faith with religion. And we certainly should not confuse religion with national identity. I am proud to be a Catholic(with all its faults) but I was Irish first and that is unchangeable. My religion is mine to do with as I will. No country should be Christian or Muslim or anything else. I dont need Christianity to tell me I am Irish. God help the future of the world if that is what motivates national pride. Anyway I think we could do with a lot less outward show of Christianity in December and a little more Christian Introspection the whole year round.

Very good post. Sums it up very well.

We're all people at the end of the day and it does not matter what one believes or dose not believe in.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13844 - 14/02/2011 20:08:08    867784

Seamus89
County: Kilkenny
Posts: 970

867762 The longest we, me not included please, can have been christian is 2000 years, ireland has been here several thousand years. are you suggesting we abandon this imported christianity nonsense and go back to our true roots or are you trying to rewrite or obliterate our history

Nonsensical argument Dhorse, I'd have expected better from you.

What I'm saying is very simple.

Indeed

dhorse (Laois) - Posts: 11374 - 14/02/2011 20:34:40    867812

The fact is we are a Christian nation. We have been for 1,600 years and no matter what you think of religion that is the truth. Paganism died out, or was incorporated into Christianity, long long ago.

Paganism as you call it, died out, as will christiasnity, as will whatever comes after it, it's just the way of the world, people will only take so much control by corrupt organistions, they start afresh.

I'm not saying people should scream 'I'm a Christian' from the rooftops
But you do anyway

dhorse (Laois) - Posts: 11374 - 14/02/2011 20:42:27    867819

When did you hear me shouting from a roof top? I don't do that. I'm softly spoken.

As for the matter at hand, I don't like that this is getting personal. My religious beliefs are my own. I'm talking about our national culture. Should Christmas, Easter and St. Patrick's Day be our holidays? Absolutely, I say. We are a Christian nation.

And as for Christianity dying out...in 30 AD, after Christ's crucifixion, there were 11 terrified Christians, frightened that the high priests would do to them what they did to Jesus.

In 2011 AD, there are about 2.2 billion Christians, on every continent, in every country. The number grows by tens of millions each year. Catholicism alone gains almost 20 million a year.

Dying out we aint.

Seamus89 (Kilkenny) - Posts: 3848 - 14/02/2011 21:01:11    867848

mesamis.
do you think that the perpetraters of 911/london/madrid/ were cluthching at straws , ye people need to waken up and waken up quick if you think anything about your idenity pride and religion , they clearly have one motive and its continued islamafacation of western society and guess what your p.c approach is only going to reinforce their goals of supremecy over what is important and noral to our ways of life . you should be shamed of yourselfs , you cannot see the damage you are doing to our society by pandering to their demands . grow up before its to late.

ta32 (Tyrone) - Posts: 4907 - 14/02/2011 21:07:11    867854

County: Kilkenny
Posts: 972

867848 When did you hear me shouting from a roof top? I don't do that. I'm softly spoken.

As for the matter at hand, I don't like that this is getting personal. My religious beliefs are my own. I'm talking about our national culture. Should Christmas, Easter and St. Patrick's Day be our holidays? Absolutely, I say. We are a Christian nation.

And as for Christianity dying out...in 30 AD, after Christ's crucifixion, there were 11 terrified Christians, frightened that the high priests would do to them what they did to Jesus.

In 2011 AD, there are about 2.2 billion Christians, on every continent, in every country. The number grows by tens of millions each year. Catholicism alone gains almost 20 million a year.

Dying out we aint.

You or me wont be around to see it, you''l be in your Heaven, i'll be rotted.

I'm sure the pagans thought it would never come to pass either.

Repent this new fangled middle eastern mumbo jumbo Seamas and return to your true Celtic mumbo jumbo, I think they had more fun.
none of this repression of the bodily functions

dhorse (Laois) - Posts: 11374 - 14/02/2011 21:13:34    867862

abide by the culture of the country and our ways of life .. if not whistle dixy .. end of story .

ta32 (Tyrone) - Posts: 4907 - 14/02/2011 21:14:13    867865

County: Kilkenny
Posts: 972

867848 When did you hear me shouting from a roof top? I don't do that. I'm softly spoken.

As for the matter at hand, I don't like that this is getting personal. My religious beliefs are my own. I'm talking about our national culture. Should Christmas, Easter and St. Patrick's Day be our holidays? Absolutely, I say. We are a Christian nation.

And as for Christianity dying out...in 30 AD, after Christ's crucifixion, there were 11 terrified Christians, frightened that the high priests would do to them what they did to Jesus.

In 2011 AD, there are about 2.2 billion Christians, on every continent, in every country. The number grows by tens of millions each year. Catholicism alone gains almost 20 million a year.

Dying out we aint.

You or me wont be around to see it, you''l be in your Heaven, i'll be rotted.

I'm sure the pagans thought it would never come to pass either.

Repent this new fangled middle eastern mumbo jumbo Seamas and return to your true Celtic mumbo jumbo, I think they had more fun.
none of this repression of the bodily functions.

30 AD, after Christ's crucifixion, there were 11 terrified Christians, frightened that the high priests would do to them what they did to Jesus. Who told you that??

dhorse (Laois) - Posts: 11374 - 14/02/2011 21:17:05    867866

dhorse I think you are a very committed Catholic.

seanie_boy (Tyrone) - Posts: 4235 - 14/02/2011 21:30:20    867876

People should pause when a right wing Tory Prime Minister talks about multiculturalism. Blaming Islam for Muslim terrorism is like blaming Christianity for Hitler and Napolean.

Ulsterman (Antrim) - Posts: 9838 - 14/02/2011 21:31:51    867879

i wouldnt get overly worried about ones religion as its basically just a function of where you were born- none are any better than the other

liathroidboy (Mayo) - Posts: 4921 - 14/02/2011 21:36:28    867885

ta32
County: Tyrone
Posts: 3789

867854 mesamis.
do you think that the perpetraters of 911/london/madrid/ were cluthching at straws , ye people need to waken up and waken up quick if you think anything about your idenity pride and religion , they clearly have one motive and its continued islamafacation of western society and guess what your p.c approach is only going to reinforce their goals of supremecy over what is important and noral to our ways of life . you should be shamed of yourselfs , you cannot see the damage you are doing to our society by pandering to their demands . grow up before its to late.

I was actually in London that day Ta so I know exactly what can happen and I deeply resent the tone of your post.

Yes Islamic fundamentalists want to destroy Western society. Islamic fundamentalists not all Muslims. Unitl people realise this then we are in trouble.

You're tarring of ALL Muslims as bomb carrying lunatics further aids the fundamentalists and is very much part of the problem.

I should be ashamed of myself? Why? Because I believe that all people deep down are good and decent, and that I want to treat people they way I'd like them to treat me?

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13844 - 14/02/2011 21:43:31    867895

ta32
County: Tyrone
Posts: 3792

Also your post that I referred to as 'straw man argument' was a perfect definition of one. You created an opposite point of view that no-one of this thread put forard to try and prove your argument.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13844 - 14/02/2011 21:48:37    867904

Marlon_JD
County: Tipperary


Where's the Tuatha De Danann when you need them?

A very well educated Australian once told me that there were 12 tribes of Israel but one of them dissapeared from History " The Tribe of Dan". He said that at around the same time in history the Tuatha De Danann turned up in Ireland. He said some scholars believed them to be one and the same. Does this have any credit or is there something to it. Black and White you know your history what do you think or indeed anyone?

derryman (Derry) - Posts: 3246 - 14/02/2011 21:54:41    867914

seanie_boy
County: Tyrone
Posts: 1312

867876 dhorse I think you are a very committed Catholic.

A bit catholic alright but not of the Roman variety.

That particular sect must be the most misnomered ever.

dhorse (Laois) - Posts: 11374 - 14/02/2011 21:57:17    867921

mesamis.
tone of what mesamis what the truth ithink you will find a few people has agreed of what the main points of what i am saying , just go on and follow the p.c blind , another thing i was in the tube that day as well so you were not the only one . how can you not see what is happening , also i am sure your fellow christians have been treated fairly watching a blue sky at work from a high rise building while some lunatic drives a 747 through their window in order to kill thousands.

3,000 was killed that day , there intention was much more . and you justify their actions . shame

ta32 (Tyrone) - Posts: 4907 - 14/02/2011 21:57:27    867922

So they are not really based in Rome then dhorse?

seanie_boy (Tyrone) - Posts: 4235 - 15/02/2011 08:45:20    867934

i clearly came on here on this thread to give my honest outlook on this very sensitive issue involving certain sects of our society in the world today , i did not take lightly of what i have posted or continue to post , because it is clear it is what i believe and see happening within our society and the world in general , what i have been seen unfolding through terrorist attacks in places like london /madrid/new york / bali is no concidence why have these attacks happened in such a large scale and why is the threat continue to be severe , people talk about freedom of speech for a start , now journalists and countries have been threatened with terrorism on a large scale for speaking out against something that clearly will not fit in with our society , it will not fit in with our way of life , because in this society of ours you laws that protect the rights of human beings for women for example and their children especially daughters who will grow up in our society a lot of them being forced into marriages and live a life of misery , and if they protest they have laws in place within their own religion that endangers the rights of women , now going on to religious liberties , yes they can have their faith , and pray but when somegroup or organisation which proclaims islam as the master religion and tries to force their ways on our way of life , then i am sorry that is not on , and if we protest about how we should continue or traditional way of life we are threatened once more with violence and are told if we do not come to their way of thinking we do not have the right to live . their is a very sinister and aggressive element of extremists out there who are getting a foothold in society and using it to their advantage and it is global and esoecially in europe with ghettos and no go areas in france and germany and england there needs to be a stop to this this is extremly volatile and its only the tip of the iceberg , peoples way of life for years are under threat , whatever way you want to look at this its staring us straight in the face ,their faith is important . but so is ours and our ways of life on how we celebrate christmass and easter and other traditional holidays and customs should never be undermined or threatened , because when you start with happy holidays and taking down cruxifixes to appease which people may thin is irrelavent , you are already are bowing and eroding what has been special in general to our christain values and customs and what we hold dear , please do not let this happen . thats my thinking in all of of this and it is sincere with no malice whatsoever .

ta32 (Tyrone) - Posts: 4907 - 15/02/2011 08:49:51    867936