No I'm being serious .

seanie_boy (Tyrone) - Posts: 4235 - 13/02/2011 16:38:47    866480

Seamus89
County: Kilkenny
Posts: 952

866419 The Tamil Tigers are nationalists freedom fighters, the fact that they're Hindu is irrelevant. Theirs is a conflict over land, not religion. As for Al-Qaeda learning from them, they probably learned from the IRA too, and the IRA learned from the Boers, and the Boers learned from the Zulus, and so on and so forth. It doesn't really matter where terrorists acquire their knowledge.

What exactly can we learn from Islam? Respect for democracy? Respect for women? Tolerance towards other religious groups? I don't see much in the Islamic world worth copying.

Ok fair enough. My second point was not in reference to Islam specifically. I've been over Islam with you before and all I'll say is that many Muslims somehow manage to interpret their religion peacefully and live happily in secular or Christian states.

Slash

There is much more to multiculturism than our relationship with Islam.I would imagine there are many more immigrants from Eastern Europe, sub-Sahara Africa and possibly the Far East. Anyway Ireland is not seen as a target by Arabs I wouldn't think, sure the Palestinians probably see us as allies at this stage.

roundball (Tipperary) - Posts: 2514 - 13/02/2011 17:00:31    866509

Do those who question whether the religion of immigrants matter, all I'd say is this.

All things being equal, would you rather 250,000 Muslim immigrants, or 250,000 Christian immigrants? Who would settle in better? Who would be more like us? Who would cause less problems when it came to integration and national identity?

I think the overwhelming majority of the Irish people would say, publicly or privately, that they would rather 250,000 Christians. Lest we forget that 82% of us defied liberal opinion to vote 'yes' to the sensible and reasonable citizenship referendum a few years back. Were 82% of us racist bigots? Are all those who'd answer '250,000 Christians' religious bigots?

Seamus89 (Kilkenny) - Posts: 3848 - 13/02/2011 17:10:05    866522

The greatest failure of multiculturism in Ireland has been with us since the Queen Elizabeth the first. We still have people who are not 2nd 3rd or even 10th generation Irish who still refuse to accept that they are Irish. This failure to assimilate has caused grave economic and political misery here for centuries. This situation was cultivated and promoted by all the political parties of England particularly that to which David Cameron belongs.
It is less than honest of the man now to make this an issue as he is doing so only to generate Jingoistic politics whereby the People who will suffer most from his cuts will be feeling so British they wont notice the knife as it cuts deeper into their lives. The Irish were glad to travel the world ( myself being one of them) and take advantage of the hospitality being offered by other Nations and we should think twice about our position on this. The problem with muslims are the Extremists Just as the problem with the Irish are the Extremists. Extremists were and are motivated by the foreign policies of David Camerons government and their support for American Imperialism. If the British and American Governments wish to adress terrorism I would suggest they treat the cause and not the symptons of this disease. And as far as learning from the Muslims we have as a western civilisation already learned more from them than they have lerarned from us.

derryman (Derry) - Posts: 3246 - 13/02/2011 17:16:18    866529

what has failed is people will to trust each other

hipster (Dublin) - Posts: 2509 - 13/02/2011 17:18:09    866537

13/02/2011 14:18:59
Sergeant_Slash
County: Cavan
Posts: 230

866393
patrique
County: Antrim
Posts: 11654

It is blatantly obvious that multi-culturalism has failed in the UK patrique. The policy of tolerance and freedom of speech, which was devised by the Labour government to cater specifically for Islamic immigration, has backfired enormously. It created a situation where extremists were given a foothold to preach hatred,




Anyone who believes a Tory Prime Minister (all the IRISH are mad, stupid, thick, terrorists) needs to be l;ooked at for a start.

All over England, people from all cultures live in peace and harmony. The BNP get very, very few votes, and do not hold any of the 652 westminster seats.

Watch England at any sport, and you see multi culturalism thriving. With players and fans. Walk about the streets in East Ham, streets made famous by the TV show racist "Alf Garnett" years ago, and you see Asian, west Indian, Irish, other immigrants, and the indigenous English living, working and playing together.

But do not open your eyes Sergeant, maybe the Tory PMs are right, and the Irish are indeed stupid and thick.

The slight tension in recent times was caused by BRITAIN and the USA INVADIINg IRAQ and AFGHANISTAN and murdering people and shooting Brazilians dead on tube trains.

When they did that in Cavan years ago it caused a bit of tension and caused clerics, from the Catholic Church, to preach sedition and hatred. Maybe the people of Cavan should have rooted out the Patrick Pearses, the Father Murphy's, the Sean Mac Diarmuid's of the country, the extremists, those who preached hatred against the loving invader, and shot them before the British had a chance to do so.

Tell me Sergeant, are you still angry that those extremists, the type you describe in your post, actually won and "freed" some 26 counties of Ireland?

No multi culturalism works in England largely because the English by and large are easy going people who champion the underdog. I couldn't see it working in Ireland because there are many racists due to ignorance and fear.

patrique (Antrim) - Posts: 13709 - 13/02/2011 17:30:54    866551

Surely Irish people, more than most, should not rush to judge? It is alarming to hear so many right wing, Little Englander opinions about Islam on HS. Of course there are radicals in Islam but there are radicals in ALL religions especially Christianity and did people never hear about the Crusades between Christianity and Islam: Richard The Lionheart & Saladin, the battles for Jerusalem, Constantinople etc in the 11 - 14th centuries? Do people never wonder why Islam has been so radicalised when Arabs in Palestine have NO recognised or official identity, are brutalised as Israeli settlers further invade their lands, as the Yanks and Brits carpet bomb Afghan/Iraqi weddings, shoot children from helicopter gunships and murder men and women walking down streets from armoured cars. Sounds familiar folks?

Ulsterman (Antrim) - Posts: 9838 - 13/02/2011 17:32:41    866554

13/02/2011 14:28:08
yew_tree
County: Mayo
Posts: 2153

866399
patrique - it has been proven that many non-nationals are getting social welfare here while working "back home". coming back on cheap ryanair flight to sign on. great country we live in alright.



It was you who suggested they follow Irish customs. Loads of people from the North been doing that for years, loads from the south using Northern dentists and doctors, and loads of politicians selling everything for a few bob.

I would say those Polish lads/lasses have integrated well into Irish society, the most corrupt in Europe.

patrique (Antrim) - Posts: 13709 - 13/02/2011 17:33:39    866556

Seamus89
County: Kilkenny
Posts: 953

Radical Christian fundamentalists are few and far between. When was the last time 19 priests hijacked planes and flew them into skyscrapers whilst singing 'Ave Maria'?

We've seen the damage caused by an all powerful religious organisation is this country and they were certainly not Muslims.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13844 - 13/02/2011 17:34:26    866557

Ask any Aussie about immigration issues and they will tell you that Muslims are a problem group in Australia also.Many refuse to assimilate and then blame the Aussies for social conflicts that arise,just like they do everywhere else they go.For the majority that settle in and become assimilated citizens,the minority trouble makers make it a case of too much effort and not enough reward.Trying to turn established civilizations on their heads and if you're not complicit then your a bigot.They should not be permitted entry into any more western nations at this point in time as they are a serious nuisance for the most part and any cultural benefit garnered from them is minimal,except the stuff about how to treat women and people who steal.

seanie_boy (Tyrone) - Posts: 4235 - 13/02/2011 17:37:55    866560

13/02/2011 15:14:53
Seamus89
County: Kilkenny
Posts: 953

866419
The Tamil Tigers are nationalists freedom fighters, the fact that they're Hindu is irrelevant. Theirs is a conflict over land, not religion. As for Al-Qaeda learning from them, they probably learned from the IRA too, and the IRA learned from the Boers, and the Boers learned from the Zulus, and so on and so forth. It doesn't really matter where terrorists acquire their knowledge.

What exactly can we learn from Islam? Respect for democracy? Respect for women? Tolerance towards other religious groups? I don't see much in the Islamic world worth copying.




Great post.

What we need are Christian Crusades against peace loving people, inquisitions against non believers and infidels, mass murder like Rwanda, mass murder like Norn' Ireland. We could convert Africa and the rest of the world, the heathens will love us for it, and it has nothing to do with diamond mines, and natural resources and oil, we just want to convert and civilise these heathens from Congo to Kilkenny.

Yea, Christians are great.

patrique (Antrim) - Posts: 13709 - 13/02/2011 17:38:51    866564

seamus89
totally agree i think people if they were being honest and open , and more than likely privately admit , they would have 250,000 christian immigrants .

ta32 (Tyrone) - Posts: 4907 - 13/02/2011 17:39:48    866565

And as far as learning from the Muslims we have as a western civilisation already learned more from them than they have lerarned from us.
________________________________

Is that because of all the great music and literature they gave us or are you referring to their pioneering championing of civil liberties and advancements in medicine?

seanie_boy (Tyrone) - Posts: 4235 - 13/02/2011 17:43:43    866567

hipster.
how can you trust a sect , with one of the most horrific human rights violations in the world , apart the fact of being a worlwide mass agenda that does not include me or you , they are issues od womens rights , even up to this day right under our noses they are faced with terrible lifetime of islamic law that violates their basic human rights , and then out in numbers , they will raise the flag of islam over every western country and allah and his followers will impose sharia law , is this not a form of facism and extremism hipster , for a race that face such provocation in the world , why do feel that they need to adresse nations and countries with promises of terror , and proclaim its either their way , or the highway no one else matters , i will or will never trust people like that .

ta32 (Tyrone) - Posts: 4907 - 13/02/2011 17:46:54    866570

seanie_boy .tyrone .
you have taken the words out of my mouth .. here here well said.

ta32 (Tyrone) - Posts: 4907 - 13/02/2011 17:48:25    866572

ta32
County: Tyrone
Posts: 3736

866570 hipster.
how can you trust a sect , with one of the most horrific human rights violations in the world , apart the fact of being a worlwide mass agenda that does not include me or you , they are issues od womens rights , even up to this day right under our noses they are faced with terrible lifetime of islamic law that violates their basic human rights , and then out in numbers , they will raise the flag of islam over every western country and allah and his followers will impose sharia law , is this not a form of facism and extremism hipster , for a race that face such provocation in the world , why do feel that they need to adresse nations and countries with promises of terror , and proclaim its either their way , or the highway no one else matters , i will or will never trust people like that .

Yes, because that descibes ALL Muslims.

Every last one of them to a tee.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13844 - 13/02/2011 17:53:13    866577

seanie_boy
County: Tyrone
Posts: 1293

866567 And as far as learning from the Muslims we have as a western civilisation already learned more from them than they have lerarned from us.
________________________________

Is that because of all the great music and literature they gave us or are you referring to their pioneering championing of civil liberties and advancements in medicine?

No Seanie it was actually because of. Mathematics writing and our legal systems. All of which aid the above which you mention.

derryman (Derry) - Posts: 3246 - 13/02/2011 18:00:54    866581

MesAmis
County: Dublin
Posts: 2684

866401
yew_tree
County: Mayo
Posts: 2152

866399 patrique - it has been proven that many non-nationals are getting social welfare here while working "back home". coming back on cheap ryanair flight to sign on. great country we live in alright.

Has it proven?

Not implying anything but have you any genuine figures/stats to back this up?

An article from the independant a few years ago: http://www.independent.ie/national-news/fraudsters-flew-in-to-claim-dole-payments-1801725.html

yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 11836 - 13/02/2011 18:01:47    866582

mesamis.
thats correct everyone of them to a tee. there is no trust .

ta32 (Tyrone) - Posts: 4907 - 13/02/2011 18:28:19    866617

Sure Derryman because our legal system is just like theirs.

seanie_boy (Tyrone) - Posts: 4235 - 13/02/2011 18:29:27    866620