Re abhainn,
Have you been asleep this last 35 years or do you
not get the results of elections in Northern Ireland
or do you just believe the pro British IRISH media

Mulligan Eamonn (None) - Posts: 896 - 17/01/2011 13:00:35    847759

Re Seamus,
You are one brave man behind a computer
and by the way you haven't got a clue what
was going on in the Northern part of our Country
When I see some of the comments made on here
with regards to N.I. by Southern posters my only
wish is that its unfortunate that you didn't live through
it maybe then you would have a different slant on things
and history.

Mulligan Eamonn (None) - Posts: 896 - 17/01/2011 13:24:17    847779

N16Calling
County: UK
Posts: 85

847240
Breen did not have an alternative once the British witheld the Home Rule.

_____________________________

The 4th Home Rule Bill was passed and came into law via the 1920 Government of Ireland Act, the IRA fought on regardless.

artisan (Down) - Posts: 1794 - 17/01/2011 13:35:07    847792

17/01/2011 10:43:16
ta32
County: Tyrone
Posts: 3489

847636
richard mulcahy was a dirty piece of work in my opinion , he had more republicans executed and tortured , than churchill




Is that Winston Churchill? He as a hate figure in the North among Unionists as he was the one sent over to tell them there was to be home rule whether they liked it or not.

Not too sure how popular he was with Nationalists at the time. The Irish News and Joe Devlin certainly thought he was the bees knees.

patrique (Antrim) - Posts: 13709 - 17/01/2011 13:55:52    847814

17/01/2011 11:40:33
wise_guy
County: Tyrone
Posts: 1174


In 1969 the Nationalist people cried out for help (the famous "I Ran Away" being written on walls) when our homes where being burned to the ground, Catolics need not apply on job adverts, no right to vote and re-drawing of constituencys to ensure Unionist majority, and poor education.



Most of the above was correct in 1969 bar the education bit. However by 1970 one man one vote had been brought in, the B Specials disbanded, the RUC disarmed, the NIHE opened to safeguard against sectarianism, and a few other measures to boot.

As for Education the highest standard of education in the British isles in the 1960s was to be found in Catholic schools in N.Ireland. This was the benefit of the 1944 education act which saw thousands of Catholics flocking to university during the 1950s and 60s. this led directly to the formation of the NICRA as it was professional catholics and students who were now demanding som political say.

It also resulted in a massive improvement in Gaelic games in the north as more and more of the 6 counties that form N.Ireland enjoyed success at Gaelic football from playing Hogan and Sigerson football. Prior to that only two of those 6 counties had won Ulster, let alone Sam.

The slogan "I ran away" was a nice bit of propaganda from the new PIRA but a disservice to the 4 people who formed the northern IRA in the 1960s.

And one of those 4 obviously didn't buy the "United Irishman" as we only sold 3 copies in Belfast in 1968.

patrique (Antrim) - Posts: 13709 - 17/01/2011 14:03:59    847821

Mulligan Eamonn

Oh, I've been misinformed. I understood that the Provisional IRA's armed campaign was only supported by a small minority of the nationalist community in the 6 counties...

Seamus89 (Kilkenny) - Posts: 3848 - 17/01/2011 14:05:35    847826

Patrique

Are you a member of the Workers Party by any chance?

Seamus89 (Kilkenny) - Posts: 3848 - 17/01/2011 14:12:16    847834

Derry_ledd
County: Derry
Posts: 1444

847736 jimbodub
County: Dublin
Posts: 7446

847125 Modern Sinn Fein have signed their own Treaty with the British..

I wonder if Dan was alive today, would he have walked away from the Good Friday agreement...?

_________________________

I hear you say this alot Jimbo. Can I take from this then that you think it is not the time for peace up here and we should still be blowing each other up?

_______________________________________________

It's the exact opposite. Blowing up things and killing only gets you so far... sometimes you have to sit down with your enemies and work out a deal as best you can.

That's why the Free state was formed. Unfortunately Civil war followed... that's my point. What a pointless Civil war... the same leaders of the Anti-Treaty took government only 5 years later under the same terms of the Treaty.

Basically I'm comparing history... modern day Sinn Fein have signed their own Treaty, and now have problems with extremists trying to drag them back into a war.

I think it's turned full circle. I hope you understand what I'm getting at now...

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20763 - 17/01/2011 14:21:00    847846

if the Provisionals were carrying on the job started by the old IRA back in the 20s after partition, surely todays so called dissidents are merely doing the same thing as the provisionals have called off their campaign despite there still being partition and a parliament in stormont headed by a unionist, with the backing of SF.

dhorse (Laois) - Posts: 11374 - 17/01/2011 14:36:46    847859

dhorse
County: Laois
Posts: 6768

847859 if the Provisionals were carrying on the job started by the old IRA back in the 20s after partition, surely todays so called dissidents are merely doing the same thing as the provisionals have called off their campaign despite there still being partition and a parliament in stormont headed by a unionist, with the backing of SF.
____________________

Exactly.

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20763 - 17/01/2011 14:39:14    847861

That's a good point, are the people who shot soldiers on the street and blow up GAA playing, Irish speaking Policemen not heroes as well? The PIRA were defeated and therefore surrendered, are the Dissidents not the true face of Republicanism now and carrying out the work started by Dan Breen etc.

pplocal (Tyrone) - Posts: 5878 - 17/01/2011 14:50:06    847878

Too much concensus on here

dhorse (Laois) - Posts: 11374 - 17/01/2011 14:59:41    847894

'Too much concensus on here'

I agree, spot on

pplocal (Tyrone) - Posts: 5878 - 17/01/2011 15:03:03    847901

PomeroyPlunkett
County: Tyrone
Posts: 2293

847878 That's a good point, are the people who shot soldiers on the street and blow up GAA playing, Irish speaking Policemen not heroes as well? The PIRA were defeated and therefore surrendered, are the Dissidents not the true face of Republicanism now and carrying out the work started by Dan Breen etc.
___________________________________

It's quite hard to argue with that...

Maybe lads shouldnt be so quick to call those South of the border - Free Staters - All we did was sign a Treaty.

We took the war as far as it would go... just like Modern Day Sinn Fein.

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20763 - 17/01/2011 15:03:13    847902

pomeroyplunkett.
dan breen was classed a traitor for his ant-treaty stance , by former comrades and politicians of the new dail , the officials classed gerry adams hughes and ivan bell as dissidents and cursed them for their direction , then gerry adams was criticised by republican sinn feinn in the aftermath of his direction in and around 86 , now that all is quiet in some major degree , adams and martin are calling former comrades traitors to the island of ireland , if they see diffrerently in what they see , and how they have found themsevles in a british state controlled under normalisation a government which is stormount , they very thing they fought to be never be part of , so in hindsight what you are saying is correct to some degree , i believe the provisionals at grassroot levels were never defeated , they certainly were lied to and were being misinformed by the leadership of the republiccan movement .. do i believe that they were defeated , no , surrendered to by the actions of senior members and infiltrated so that things maybe put in place , to were they are now , so i do not know wether it is proper to connect current people with convictions that are in conflict with the current leadership , and to people like dan breen who held strong convictions and morals , but i know one thing for sure history will tell in time , but they are certain similarities in the different times of the conflicts that we have faced up to now .. bottom line .. time will tell .

ta32 (Tyrone) - Posts: 4907 - 17/01/2011 15:12:50    847920

dhorse
County: Laois
Posts: 6773

847894
Too much concensus on here

There's not enough.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13792 - 17/01/2011 15:16:23    847923

Do you think it's right Ta that Sinn Fein are calling dissidents traitors when they are only going down the same route as the PIRA before they went on a ceasefire? I don't agree with their means myself but at least you are consistent in your views, most of the Republicans on here think it was justified to kill a soldier 15 years ago but not 15 months ago despite the fact that nothing has changed. They blindly follow Sinn Fein and are unable to form opinions of their own

pplocal (Tyrone) - Posts: 5878 - 17/01/2011 15:33:30    847945

pomeroy.
no they have no right to condemm their former comrades , who really stepped up and answered their call and more notably their doctrine , now all of a sudden they are saying it is wrong to maintain a armed conflict , it is they who are tyring to call the shots in a copperfastened british state controlled government under terms of the agreement i am afraid have been squashed further away from a united ireland than ever , i am not saying it is right for a further conflict to be resumed or wether or not it will sovle the existing issues that concern the wider republican family , and believe me they are many outstanding issues that need to be addressed or we might be in for a very difficult time , i have always stated that peace is the outmost importants , and long may it continue , but i am not going to follow sinn fein blind by their lies and deception , they are many good people out their who are being classed diisidents , because of their thoughts and concerns , and many longstanding decent veterans have been smeared by elements of their former friends and comrades who now sit in government in stormount , that my friend stinks of hyprocisy , and that is why i will never have any part of voting for a party who proclaims to be republican , capatilism is rife within senior ranks of its organisation .

ta32 (Tyrone) - Posts: 4907 - 17/01/2011 15:53:21    847967

ta32
County: Tyrone
Posts: 3491

847967 pomeroy.
no they have no right to condemm their former comrades , who really stepped up and answered their call and more notably their doctrine , now all of a sudden they are saying it is wrong to maintain a armed conflict , it is they who are tyring to call the shots in a copperfastened british state controlled government under terms of the agreement i am afraid have been squashed further away from a united ireland than ever , i am not saying it is right for a further conflict to be resumed or wether or not it will sovle the existing issues that concern the wider republican family , and believe me they are many outstanding issues that need to be addressed or we might be in for a very difficult time , i have always stated that peace is the outmost importants , and long may it continue , but i am not going to follow sinn fein blind by their lies and deception , they are many good people out their who are being classed diisidents , because of their thoughts and concerns , and many longstanding decent veterans have been smeared by elements of their former friends and comrades who now sit in government in stormount , that my friend stinks of hyprocisy , and that is why i will never have any part of voting for a party who proclaims to be republican , capatilism is rife within senior ranks of its organisation

How capitalist are the latest version of the IRA.? The old IRA seemed to have a fair share of capitalists on board.

dhorse (Laois) - Posts: 11374 - 17/01/2011 16:03:27    847978

17/01/2011 14:12:16
Seamus89
County: Kilkenny
Posts: 688

847834
Patrique

Are you a member of the Workers Party by any chance?




certainly not.

As I was the one who made the speech lighting the fuse at the Conference in 1991 or so, I sort of had to leave, ended up in "democratic Left" for my sins.

patrique (Antrim) - Posts: 13709 - 17/01/2011 16:05:00    847981