ta32
County: Tyrone

How can you be so sure that Dan Breen would not have taken a seat in Stormont?? When you consider Breen was more than willing to go into the Dail in 1927 with former enemies and SWEAR AN OATH OF ALLEGIENCE TO A FOREIGN KING!!

Taking a seat in a modern day Stormont is no different than taken a seat in the Dail in 1927 (minus the oath)

I wouldn't think Martin McGuinness or Gerry Adams would swear an oath of allegience to the king/queen of England, regardless of the circumstances..

No.15 (Down) - Posts: 193 - 16/01/2011 14:59:01    847256

n16/seamus.
for the record the nationalists or republicans were never given a chance to grasp the sunningdale agreement , because loyalists and hardline unionists brought about strikes through violence and intimidation bringing the province to a deadlock , encforcing the agreement to a crash , they were never in the thinking of cross border or power sharing with the both communities then , you would need have a better look and research at the times of the agreement and about how and why , and who eventually brought this agreement of 1974 down , befrore laying the responibility on the shoulders of the republican movement .

ta32 (Tyrone) - Posts: 4907 - 16/01/2011 15:06:31    847260

I live only a few miles from soloheadbeg and Dan Breen is a true legend in our parts.Dan done what many fail to do today including the opposition in the Dail.He fought tooth and nail for the ordinary Irish citizen and that has to be respected.If people today had his courage and morals We would be a far better country

bigman2 (Tipperary) - Posts: 1202 - 16/01/2011 15:09:23    847262

ta32

I never suggested otherwise ta. The unionists, both the Paisleyites, the 'moderate' Unionist Party, and the loyalist paramilitary thugs, all united to fight against Sunningdale. They ultimately killed what was a good chance for peace. But the Provos were not supportive of it either.

Seamus89 (Kilkenny) - Posts: 3848 - 16/01/2011 15:18:23    847265

seamus.
did republicans and nationalists go the degree and mayhem that loyalists and unionists went to in order for the agreement to collapse , no they did not , as usual the hardline unionists in goverment got there way , and the agreement was scrapped , and put on the scrapheap , if the nationalits community went out and done what loyalists and unionists done to bring that agreement down , there would have been a few more bloody sundays , but the casulties would not have been mounting on the side of loyalism or her friends ?

ta32 (Tyrone) - Posts: 4907 - 16/01/2011 15:38:52    847271

16/01/2011 15:06:31
ta32
County: Tyrone
Posts: 3486

847260
n16/seamus.
for the record the nationalists or republicans were never given a chance to grasp the sunningdale agreement , because loyalists and hardline unionists brought about strikes through violence and intimidation bringing the province to a deadlock




Sunningdale was opposed by the old alliance of DUP/Loyalists and Sinn Fein/IRA much as these two opposed everything for years. They were always as one voice for years and amazingly only a few people noticed. I remember after the Anglo Irish agreement the DUP calling at my door looking for signatures in opposition and I pretended I thought they must be from Sinn Fein.

Sunningdale was accepted by "nationalists" in that their elected representatives took their seat in the power sharing administration. Paddy Devlin, Gerry Fitt and others were Ministers, just as Martin McGuinness and Gerry Kelly are now.

this was brought down by a "worker's strike" which we could do with in the ROI at the moment. Admittedly it was a "strange" workers strike but it does show that worker's strikes can be successful.

That is why Britain panicked back then, couldn't care less about the North but were extremely concerned that the unions in England might learn something.

patrique (Antrim) - Posts: 13709 - 16/01/2011 15:51:06    847278

patrique.
yes the sunningdale , the anglo irish agreement , the constutional claim on the north are now all gone .. and for what , and at whose expense and suffering and all that was given , regardless of what you think the financial situtation is in the south , and another strike to the magnigude that brought down a peace agreement in 74 , it does not really matter or is of little irrevalence , the point is they are still many pressing issues of truth , and understanding , of which are more important concerning the future of the whole island , capatalism is still been succesful and is working very hard in and around the new stormount with ministers willing to sell all for their personal wealth and future profits , put there by the very people who wanted little and gave everthing .. but there is peace pat ?

ta32 (Tyrone) - Posts: 4907 - 16/01/2011 17:20:27    847335

ta32
County: Tyrone
Posts: 3487

847335
patrique.
yes the sunningdale , the anglo irish agreement , the constutional claim on the north are now all gone .. and for what , and at whose expense and suffering and all that was given , regardless of what you think the financial situtation is in the south , and another strike to the magnigude that brought down a peace agreement in 74 ,



A strike and a bombing campaign by the PIRA.

Never underestimate the roll they played in bringing down many N.ireland institutions, including the power sharing executive.

In short, as on many occasions, loyalist and republican paramilitaries were UNITED in opposition to the power sharing.

patrique (Antrim) - Posts: 13709 - 16/01/2011 20:18:43    847457

Ulsterman
County: Antrim
Posts: 3062

847126 I wish we had a modern day Dan Breen to deal with those nauseating fawning psychophantic West Brits who shame Ireland.

you left out Lackies,,what sort of nationalist are you at all, cant even get the name calling right

dhorse (Laois) - Posts: 11374 - 16/01/2011 21:04:39    847498

MesAmis
County: Dublin
Posts: 2471

847217 This is the same thread as so many others we've had just with a different title.

Is that not what this is all about??

dhorse (Laois) - Posts: 11374 - 16/01/2011 21:06:39    847502

It is wrong to judge Dan Breen and his men with the standards of 2011. The Home Rule Bill was not going to be introduced by the British. Ne recognition was given to all the Irish soldiers who dies in WW1. The Peace Negoatiaitions in Versailles were more intent on carving ip Germanys industrial might than looking after the freedom of small nations.
The execution of Inspector Potter by Dan Breens in retaliation for the execution of Thomas Tarynor showed the resolve of the I.R.A.

As Richard Mulcahy said " by the end of the war our lads were as bad as the Tans" ( And he should know )

N16Calling (UK) - Posts: 260 - 17/01/2011 10:23:48    847617

Seamus89
County: Kilkenny
Posts: 677

847117 Can't wait for the Tom Barry and Ernie O'Malley episodes in the next two weeks. Pity they didn't make a real War of Independence Heroes series out of it, have an episode on Collins, McEoin, Lynch, Brennan, Maguire and so on.


They where a pile of terrorists who did not have the support of the Irish people. Double standards Seamus?

wise_guy (Tyrone) - Posts: 1584 - 17/01/2011 10:34:39    847631

richard mulcahy was a dirty piece of work in my opinion , he had more republicans executed and tortured , than churchill and the tans ever had , he should be and i think is remembered for what his standards were , turning completely on his own he did .

ta32 (Tyrone) - Posts: 4907 - 17/01/2011 10:43:16    847636

wise_guy.tyrone .
i will second that statement .

ta32 (Tyrone) - Posts: 4907 - 17/01/2011 10:44:37    847638

They where a pile of terrorists who did not have the support of the Irish people. Double standards Seamus

Wiseguy...the IRA in the War of Independence were NOT terrorists who killed thousands of civilians, and their cause WAS supported by the majority of Irish people. There's a big difference between them and the Provos.

Seamus89 (Kilkenny) - Posts: 3848 - 17/01/2011 10:51:52    847647

Not often I'll agree with Seamus, but the men of the War of Independence had a mandate from the people, due to 1918 elections. The manifesto is quite clear and people knew extremely well what they were voting for. Similarly, 80% of the electorate voted for pro treaty parties. At no stage in the North did the Provos command anything like the public support at the ballot box, even amongst their own community.

abhainn (Galway) - Posts: 1000 - 17/01/2011 11:39:49    847670

What about the ethnic cleansing of Protestants in Cork Seamus?

You do not know what you are on about. In 1916 the volunteers had no mandate from the Irish people and had rotten food and stones thrown at them when being led away by their captures.

In 1969 the Nationalist people cried out for help (the famous "I Ran Away" being written on walls) when our homes where being burned to the ground, Catolics need not apply on job adverts, no right to vote and re-drawing of constituencys to ensure Unionist majority, and poor education. This brought about the birth of the PIRA initally as protecters of the Nationalist people (mainly but not exclusivly Catholic).

I suggest you be less vocal on something that you have no idea about as you are insulting alot of people.

wise_guy (Tyrone) - Posts: 1584 - 17/01/2011 11:40:33    847671

The 1918 general election was not a mandate for war, most historians agree on that point. The SF manifesto was deliberately vague on the issue of violence (for those voters who actually read the document), the manifesto called for Ireland to have a seat at the Peace Conference of 1918, hardly militant language. The conscription crisis, Easter executions, death of Tom Ashe on hunger strike, continued imprisonment of some Rebels, exasperation of the failure of the IPP to obtain home rule - all contributed significantly to SF obtaining the largest protest vote in history. To describe it as a mandate for war is just plain wrong.

If morality is to be judged by popularity then as wise_guy has pointed out, the Rebels of 16 were terrorists, as were the fenians, young Irelanders, Emmet, Tone and the United Irishmen - all of the aforementioned had no 'mandate', nor did they seek one.

artisan (Down) - Posts: 1794 - 17/01/2011 12:17:09    847708

jimbodub
County: Dublin
Posts: 7446

847125 Modern Sinn Fein have signed their own Treaty with the British..

I wonder if Dan was alive today, would he have walked away from the Good Friday agreement...?

_________________________

I hear you say this alot Jimbo. Can I take from this then that you think it is not the time for peace up here and we should still be blowing each other up?

Derry_ledd (Derry) - Posts: 2093 - 17/01/2011 12:38:23    847736

Wiseguy...I have never denied that some members of the Old IRA did bad things, just as soldiers in every army do bad things in times of war. But the sort of rampant bombing of civilian areas was something the Old IRA did not do, and you can research the civilian casualties for the War of Independence if you want to verify that. The Provos, on the other hand, were full on terrorists, who specialised in killing innocent civilians in cruel gun and bomb attacks.

Another major difference, as you probably didn't read in my post, was that the Old IRA were fighting for a cause that they knew was attainable. The Provos however knew for a long time that a 32 county socialist republic was not going to happen, yet they continued on killing anyway. Typical bloodthirsty terrorists.

And if you feel insulted, well, too bad. A lot of people have suffered more than you on account of the actions of the Provisional IRA.

Seamus89 (Kilkenny) - Posts: 3848 - 17/01/2011 12:41:09    847738