Seamus
As for "financial extinction", that's completely over the top.

Not according to Gordon brown . I was given his book for christmas also and according to him we were one day away from that scenario.

derryman (Derry) - Posts: 3246 - 11/01/2011 20:39:32    844313

Seamus89
County: Kilkenny
Posts: 622

843340 Right back at you roundball. It's good to have an informed debate alright.

My last point-and I'm not trying to have the last word, just summing up my argument-is to re-emphasise the difference between Jesus and Muhammed. One man of peace, one warlord. I could also point to Christianity's first few hundred years compared to Islam's first few hundred years...pacifism, oppression-v-violent conquest, forced conversion. That's the difference between the two as far as I'm concerned. All religions eventually suffer from corruption, and the founders vision is perverted. But with Islam, they were violent from the very beginning, as they were following the Prophet's instructions. You can't say the same about Christianity.

I'll have to look into the early history of Islam before I can comment on that Seamus. Although I would like to point out that Jesus's message is extraordinarily unique in history in his rejection of violence.

roundball (Tipperary) - Posts: 2514 - 11/01/2011 21:04:51    844349

Not according to Gordon brown . I was given his book for christmas also and according to him we were one day away from that scenario.

Good book? I'm reading a few at the moment, but I decided to stay away from Blair, Brown and Bush, as political memoirs tend to reak of self-justification. When I saw Brown on The Late Late I thought he seemed a nice chap, which was strange in that I always thought he was a buffoon when he was PM.

Look, I'm not an economist. There is so simple explanation as to how to create prosperity, and there is no economic theory that is without its flaws. Free enterprise/economic individualism, combined with the necessary social protections and services, is regarded by most people and countries as the best way forward.

That's not Sinn Fein policy though. They want Cuban style economics, and if you want to know how good they are, ask one of the people who have fled the country in tiny rafts, risking their lives to get out.

Seamus89 (Kilkenny) - Posts: 3848 - 11/01/2011 21:05:07    844350

Seamus
That's not Sinn Fein policy though. They want Cuban style economics, and if you want to know how good they are, ask one of the people who have fled the country in tiny rafts, risking their lives to get out.

Ah now that is scaremongering and not worthy of refuting.
Gordon Browns book! Well I couldnt describe it as good but informative of the financial crisis. It is very heavy reading and I often found it probably above my level of knowledge of financial institutions and their dealings. It is not a biography but a blow by blow account of his and Alistair darlings dealings with the global crisis. I did feel that he used the word "I" a great deal but he does come across as a very astute politician and with sound understanding of finance. Some of the facts he has presented are scary. eg. if the bankers had paid themselves 10% less in bonuses over the previous 10 years they could have bailed themselves out.

derryman (Derry) - Posts: 3246 - 11/01/2011 21:49:33    844409

Seamus would you not consider founding a new political party ? There is certainly a place for a new party in this wee republic. Given your brand of true blue politics could I suggest you call it The Conservative party. Not sure how far you would get with it, but go on ! Go for it and see how far you get.

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6178 - 12/01/2011 17:01:44    844912

Thanks for suggestion Greengrass!

Ah, Conservative Party? No chance...how about something in Irish, something like 'Saoirse' or something like that. That sounds catchy.

My party would be for Irish unity through peaceful means, and it would support the Irish language, sports and traditions. It would abolish the Seanad, cut the TD's numbers and salaries, and adopt a more sceptical attitude towards the European Union. It would privatise the semi-states, slash and burn the quangos.

What do you think Greengrass...shall I send you out an application form?

Seamus89 (Kilkenny) - Posts: 3848 - 12/01/2011 18:00:16    844988

Have to rush out the door Seamus . Football to be attended. I shall need more time to study your policies before making a commitment.

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6178 - 12/01/2011 19:05:34    845053

My party would be for Irish unity through peaceful means, and it would support the Irish language, sports and traditions. It would abolish the Seanad, cut the TD's numbers and salaries, and adopt a more sceptical attitude towards the European Union.

Hmmm let me think now, have I heard that before because I would vote for a Party like that.

derryman (Derry) - Posts: 3246 - 12/01/2011 20:44:01    845149

Seamus89
County: Kilkenny
Posts: 631

844988 Thanks for suggestion Greengrass!

Ah, Conservative Party? No chance...how about something in Irish, something like 'Saoirse' or something like that. That sounds catchy.

My party would be for Irish unity through peaceful means, and it would support the Irish language, sports and traditions. It would abolish the Seanad, cut the TD's numbers and salaries, and adopt a more sceptical attitude towards the European Union. It would privatise the semi-states, slash and burn the quangos.

Sounds like you might fit in well with the new National Forum crowd Seamus. They see themselves as a kind of centre right, compassionate Tories.

roundball (Tipperary) - Posts: 2514 - 13/01/2011 11:06:05    845338

Seamus89
County: Kilkenny
Posts: 631

844988
Thanks for suggestion Greengrass!

Ah, Conservative Party? No chance...how about something in Irish, something like 'Saoirse' or something like that. That sounds catchy.

My party would be for Irish unity through peaceful means, and it would support the Irish language, sports and traditions. It would abolish the Seanad, cut the TD's numbers and salaries, and adopt a more sceptical attitude towards the European Union. It would privatise the semi-states, slash and burn the quangos.

What do you think Greengrass...shall I send you out an application form?

You can send me one, sounds good so far. Tell me, what is your stance on crime and punishment?

Sergeant_Slash (Cavan) - Posts: 2182 - 13/01/2011 11:07:38    845342

Sounds like you might fit in well with the new National Forum crowd Seamus. They see themselves as a kind of centre right, compassionate Tories.

Roundball

I tried to start a thread about the National Forum recently, but it wasn't posted for some reason. I do really admire some of the people involved in that, and I would be a supporter of the Forum's views on a whole range of issues. So good spot.

Seamus89 (Kilkenny) - Posts: 3848 - 13/01/2011 13:36:31    845478

You can send me one, sounds good so far. Tell me, what is your stance on crime and punishment?

On the issue of criminal justice, well where do I begin? I think a lot of sentences are too short; the disgraceful case of Larry Murphy's 15 year sentence (he only served 11) is a good example of that. Given the horrific nature of his crime, I'd have wanted 25 years minimum. Also, the ludicrous situation where an unrepentant rapist or any other criminal can get time off their sentence for good behaviour, while never once seeking treatment or expressing genuine remorse, has to be changed as a matter of urgency.

I'm not a big supporter of the death penalty-though I despise the hypocrisy of the 'pro-lifers' within the Labour Party when it comes to THIS issue-but I certainly believe that anyone who commits an especially horrific crime, eg, killing of a child, Garda, judge, etc, should be given a mandatory sentence of life without parole. And any judge who refuses to hand down mandatory sentences should be dismissed automatically. Killers should never be given the chance to commit a second crime. Ever.

Electric tagging of sex offenders should be the norm in all cases. Repeat offenders should be given life without parole.

I never understand why we have so many prisons in cities. Sell them off (not now, wait until the market has stabilised), and build new ones outside cities, with enough space to ensure the thugs that terrorise people on the streets are kept safely locked up. No more releasing them onto the streets before they've paid their dues.

I like the Gardai are an unarmed force, but in certain areas, they need to be packing. If there are s**mbags willing to shoot at members of our police force, I want our guardians to be able to fire back. Also, anyone who fires a weapon at a Garda should be given a life sentence.

Law-abiding citizens should have a right to use force to defend their homes and families from intruders, and a law-abiding citizen who's qualified to own a firearm should always be able to exercise that right. I'm for protecting the citizen, not the criminal. If you try to break into someone's house and get shot, too bad mister. No more lawsuits against people whose only 'crime' was defending themselves.

The narco-terrorists who've destroyed so many lives need to be dealt with, and the Special Criminal Court is the place to do this. There should be special conditions for special prisoners, such as the Gilligans of this world. We should look at what the Italians have done to take on the Mafia. Isolate the leaders, take away all privileges and make prison hell. No more TV's in cells for anyone who isn't a model prisoner. The average con should make do with a bed, a toilet and a Bible. Let them earn any rewards they might get through good behaviour.

That's a start anyway. What do you think Greengrass? Am I too extreme for you?

Seamus89 (Kilkenny) - Posts: 3848 - 13/01/2011 13:52:30    845495

Seamus89
County: Kilkenny
Posts: 636

You have my vote.

Sergeant_Slash (Cavan) - Posts: 2182 - 13/01/2011 14:28:07    845545

A Bible???? surely that contravenes the geneva convention?

Breffni40 (Cavan) - Posts: 12295 - 13/01/2011 14:33:56    845552

Seamus89

the ludicrous situation where an unrepentant rapist or any other criminal can get time off their sentence for good behaviour,


Well said lad.

Why is it a case that they get time off for "good behaviour"? Shouldn't good behaviour be the minimum expected from them?

The system should be changed to honest sentences, where 10 years means 10 years, if you behave. Anything other then "good" behaviour and then charge them with whatever crime they have committed in prison, and have the prospect of adding on more time.

Also, concurrent sentencing needs to abandoned, it's a complete and utter farce.
If somebody robs 1 bank, they get a sentence of (say) 10 years.
If they rob 2 banks, they get convicted on two charges, and are sentenced to 10 years for each. The judge then orders the sentences be served concurrently, and the effect is the same as if they were only convicted of one offence. Utter rubbish

black&white (Sligo) - Posts: 1628 - 13/01/2011 14:42:55    845563

Agree with a lot of your policies on crime Seamus. Time for social and economic policies please. Eurosceptic wouldn't go down well with me. Would put me in mind of people like Margaret Thatcher and Enoch Powell. GRRRRRRRRR !!!

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6178 - 13/01/2011 17:12:53    845708

That's a start anyway. What do you think Greengrass? Am I too extreme for you?

I don't know if you're as radical as you think. The concept of prisoners earning 'rewards' through good behaviour is supposed to be standard (every cell in Portlaoise [I]doesn't come with a 32 inch telly, Xbox and hot-tub, no matter what the guy down the pub who knows an electrician who worked there tells you). Irish law also allows you to use lethal force to defend your home (but well done for apparently falling for the old 'if a burglar trips over your cat when he's breaking in, he can sue you for personal injury' chestnut)

Most of the other stuff you propose (more prisons, zero-tolerance sentencing, widespread civilian gun ownership) is already the norm in the U.S. I think we can call agree the States isn't exactly a crime-free utopia.

Personally though, the sentencing stuff sounds like pure tabloid-esque rabble rousing. Do you think murderers commit their crimes now because they calculate, if they get caught, that a 15 year sentence will be a stroll in the park? Do you think judges hand down soft sentences to repeat-rapists for laughs and giggles? (as opposed to, say, having to work within the particular legislation) How do you define an 'especially horrific crime' exactly? By how much fury the Star whips up over a particular case?

Give me another five years of FF, if this is the alternative.

whereangelsplay (Cork) - Posts: 240 - 13/01/2011 17:46:53    845747

Seamus89
County: Kilkenny
Posts: 640

What is this national forum you speak of? Any chance of a link to a website if they have one????

Sergeant_Slash (Cavan) - Posts: 2182 - 13/01/2011 18:08:01    845765

"Give me another five years of FF, if this is the alternative. "

Actually I got a bit carried away there, I take that back. NOTHING is worth that. Apologies everyone.

whereangelsplay (Cork) - Posts: 240 - 13/01/2011 18:09:56    845768

http://www.nationalforum.ie/

There's the link Sergeant

Seamus89 (Kilkenny) - Posts: 3848 - 13/01/2011 18:44:48    845803