Liathroidboy as usual you are talking liathroidi. Well said roundball. As you said give me the facts and I will make up my own mind. I never ever take newspaper columnists seriously. They only ever tell you what they want you to know. Most people will say a newspaper article is good when they agree with the content. Seamus89, Kevin Myers is nothing more than a hard right wing, revisionist contrarian. He is also highly obnoxious in the manner in which he chooses to express his opinions. You can express opinions without being obnoxious in doing so. To say he is a good writer is a matter of opinion. He can, there is no doubt at times write brilliantly most particularly when he is not dealing with political matters. Unfortunately he is not consistent and too often resorts to offensive, sensationalist rants. He seems to view research as expendable. I have lost count of the number of times that the facts as presented by Kevin Myers have been refuted forcefully in the letters column. He very seldom if ever replies to these letters. You are right when you say he calls it as he sees it. Too often however, as a result of his prejudice he is blind when he calls it. I agree with you when you say Fintan O Toole comes across as being smug. At least however he is not offensive.

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6178 - 07/01/2011 20:28:15    841814

07/01/2011 17:14:29
Sergeant_Slash
County: Cavan
Posts: 124

841622
patrique
County: Antrim
Posts: 11085


And to show how balanced I am, I actually like Myers.

You're an old fashioned rightist deep down eh? God, you had me fooled.



I first mer Kevin when he arrived in the Bogside in 1969 ready to give his life to free us.

True. Like many, many other media figures, Gay Byrne being the best example.

patrique (Antrim) - Posts: 13709 - 07/01/2011 20:42:19    841826

Greengrass

I don't think Kevin Myers is God's gift to readers of Irish newspapers or anything, I disagree with him myself a good bit. I do think he's the best though when it comes to Irish opinion columnists.

As for being hard right...Myers has expressed support in his column for the legalisation of prostitution and of drugs such as cocaine and cannabis...hardly the views of someone on the hard right.

Course he's a revisionist, but sometimes a bit of revisionism is needed. I disagree with Myers' views on the Easter Rising, but his informed commentary, and minority opinions, are of great value. For example, I was in class with a Turkish girl last semester, and during the course of a presentation on Turkey, she responded to a question by stating that the Armenian Genocide never took place. That's a disgusting thing to say, but in Turkey, it's widely believed that that was the case. The absence of a good revisionist critique has enabled this horrendous falsehood to be propagated down through the years. Historians need revisionists, everyone does.

F

Seamus89 (Kilkenny) - Posts: 3848 - 07/01/2011 20:44:11    841827

patrique
County: Antrim
Posts: 11094

841826
07/01/2011 17:14:29
Sergeant_Slash
County: Cavan
Posts: 124

841622
patrique
County: Antrim
Posts: 11085


And to show how balanced I am, I actually like Myers.

You're an old fashioned rightist deep down eh? God, you had me fooled.



I first mer Kevin when he arrived in the Bogside in 1969 ready to give his life to free us.

Ha ha! Ever the patriot is Kevin. Staunch believer in Irish freedom alright.

Sergeant_Slash (Cavan) - Posts: 2182 - 07/01/2011 20:59:28    841847

'every culture and religion is equal'
I would subscribe to that notion as well. I wonder what does that say about me

derryman (Derry) - Posts: 3246 - 07/01/2011 20:59:30    841848

Is fundamentalist, Sharia Law Islam equal to the Christian culture of Ireland? Is the culture of Nazi Germany equal to the culture of Ancient Greece? You don't make any distinctions, eh Derryman?

Seamus89 (Kilkenny) - Posts: 3848 - 07/01/2011 21:12:07    841864

I see what you mean Seamus. And I would not have the skills to put all my thoughts to words. But nazi Germany is judged on its policies of Aryan Superiority and its treatment of minorities. These are obviously not to be admired nor copied. There were other policies that were good for the German Nation but we dont hear about them. Sharia law to be honest I am not fully versed in all its points but if you are speaking of its dealings with Females who are we christians to point the finger. It may be worth noting that prior to the crusades the muslim laws were much more civilised than our christian laws. Indeed western law is largely derived from the muslim systems. And to be honest I am not sure that the ancient greek culture was as civilised as we modern " Civilised people " like to think. Indeed the treatment of woman was no better than that of the muslim faith. The Common Denominator in all Religions and cultures Is humanity and we equally have the same failings and strengths as the other. Some cultures and religions have travelled a little further along the "path of enlightnment" than others none of us have reached perfection indeed I wonder sometimes if perhaps some of us are not travelling backwards. In another thread it was pointed out that in WW1 the civilian casualty rate was 10% . WW2 50% Vietnam War 75% the current Iraq and Afghan war 90%. And we like to think that this is the advance of civilisation.

derryman (Derry) - Posts: 3246 - 07/01/2011 21:42:10    841905

Derryman

Read Kevin Myers piece yesterday. It's about Islam, the link is posted on this thread somewhere, I think it was Sergeant Slash who posted it. He expressed his opposition to Islamic 'culture' and the dangers it poses better than I ever could.

Seamus89 (Kilkenny) - Posts: 3848 - 07/01/2011 21:54:56    841914

I read that piece Seamus. It was his usual over the top, contrarian, sensationalist rant. His standing with regards to newspaper columnists is a matter of opinion.

Read his opinion pieces on the economy. Hard right opinions without any doubt. Read his poisonously anti public service pieces.Hard right again.

Revisionism requires balance. You have no doubt read his "work" on The Rising and The War of Independence. Laughable is the word for it. There is no balance. I agree with you when you say historians are needed to revise history where required. There certainly needs to be revisionism in Turkey with regards to The Armenian Genocide of 1915.

I see you are at college. One word of advice from someone who is further down the road than you-take everything you read in newspapers with a pinch of salt. All columnists have an ulterior motive. Remember as well that the job of a newspaper columnist is one of the least productive and most irrelevant existences known to man.

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6178 - 08/01/2011 14:43:27    842023

I read that piece Seamus. It was his usual over the top, contrarian, sensationalist rant.

What did he say that you found objectionable Greengrass...and who do you think is better than him in Irish journalism?

Read his opinion pieces on the economy. Hard right opinions without any doubt. Read his poisonously anti public service pieces.Hard right again.

Yes, he's a man of the right in economic affairs. But after seeing the huge waste and inefficiency of the Irish public sector, not to mention the cronyism and corruption of the social(ist) partnership agreements, he has good reason to be right-wing when it comes to economics. The Socialism-v-Capitalism debate was settled around 1989, I believe.

Revisionism requires balance. You have no doubt read his "work" on The Rising and The War of Independence. Laughable is the word for it. There is no balance. I agree with you when you say historians are needed to revise history where required. There certainly needs to be revisionism in Turkey with regards to The Armenian Genocide of 1915.

I agree with you. He often holds Irish nationalists to higher standards of conduct than he holds British unionists, and he seems to believe that violence was not acceptable as a means of ending British rule in Ireland. I disagree. But I respect his opinion anyway. I've read many of his articles about the War of Independence and the Easter Rising, and I've disagreed with a huge amount of it. For instance, a number of weeks ago, he described Michael Collins as a 'serial killer'. That's an outrageous thing to say, and ridiculously stupid as well. So don't think I worship the man, I don't.

I see you are at college. One word of advice from someone who is further down the road than you-take everything you read in newspapers with a pinch of salt. All columnists have an ulterior motive. Remember as well that the job of a newspaper columnist is one of the least productive and most irrelevant existences known to man.

Seamus89 (Kilkenny) - Posts: 3848 - 08/01/2011 15:16:06    842053

I see you are at college. One word of advice from someone who is further down the road than you-take everything you read in newspapers with a pinch of salt. All columnists have an ulterior motive. Remember as well that the job of a newspaper columnist is one of the least productive and most irrelevant existences known to man.

I know that Greengrass. My mother didn't raise no fool. But I disagree with you about newspaper columnists. Some of them are brilliant, and their commentary adds to the enjoyment of reading the paper over breakfast. You don't agree?

Seamus89 (Kilkenny) - Posts: 3848 - 08/01/2011 15:17:49    842054

Your right Greengrass that's what i like about Ireland
plenty of young college students who think they know it all.
You know what they say A little bit of knowledge is very dangerous.

Mulligan Eamonn (None) - Posts: 896 - 08/01/2011 15:19:37    842055

I thought that myers article on islamic culture was suprisingly quite good, seeing as i generally disagree with everything he says.

As for newspaper columnists, I would agree with the previous poster who said they are irrelevant. They have to give the most outrageous and outspoken view possible in order to for people to read and notice and their work. Their opinion is no more valid than mine or anyone else's.

patmcgee (Longford) - Posts: 520 - 08/01/2011 15:51:45    842071

Mulligan Eamonn

Oh, sorry, excuse me for voicing an opinion on an open forum. Should have left it to the more practically minded experts who left school after the Junior Cert, or went to Carlow IT or whatever. Us UNIVERSITY types really are an arrogant bunch.

PS-Your taxes have helped put me through college. So thanks man. Much appreciated.

Seamus89 (Kilkenny) - Posts: 3848 - 08/01/2011 16:06:29    842079

Myers has, like most journalists, good points and negative points.

He is at his best when highlighting hypocrisy (e.g. the way that many self-proclaimed "liberals" are against free speech for people who disagree with them, or the silence of feminist groups when it comes to the treatment of women in Islamic countries), and his long-fought campaign for the shamefully-forgotten Irish dead from World War 1.

His views on recent Irish history are strange (as others have said he seems to hold Nationalist/Republican side to a higher moral standard than he does the Unionist/British side).


What I find sadly unsurprising, is that so many on here dismiss his views on everything, purely because they disagree with his stance on the north.

A piece of advice; respond to the argument, not the man (although a lot on here seem to have trouble with that all of the time, not just in relation to Myers).

black&white (Sligo) - Posts: 1628 - 08/01/2011 16:35:19    842094

posted a reply to this but wasnt put up dunno why

b.mullins (Dublin) - Posts: 1413 - 08/01/2011 17:03:21    842115

The column on Islam was disgustingly bigoted. To say that al-Qaeda fundamentalists and cultural dissidents represents Islam or Arabs is like saying the IRA represent the Irish or Catholics.

roundball (Tipperary) - Posts: 2514 - 08/01/2011 17:43:57    842146

The column on Islam was disgustingly bigoted. To say that al-Qaeda fundamentalists and cultural dissidents represents Islam or Arabs is like saying the IRA represent the Irish or Catholics.


No roundball, that's not what he said. Myers merely pointed out that wherever large numbers of Muslims go, problems ALWAYS arise. These include radicalism, separatism, intolerance, refusal to integrate, etc. These problems are not associated with Sikhs, or Hindus, as Myers points out, they are problems that are mainly associated with Muslims.

If you like Islamic civilisation, spend a few months in Saudi Arabia. In fact, take your wife, and a Mass-going friend, and maybe a gay friend as well. See how they're treated. While you're at it, try ordering a beer. And be sure to wish the locals Merry Christmas.

The Christian culture of a the West, tempered with a healthy and reasonable dose of secularism, is vastly superior to the Sharia Law culture of the Islamic world. If it wasn't, why are we so better off, economically, politically and socially?

Seamus89 (Kilkenny) - Posts: 3848 - 08/01/2011 19:29:01    842196

roundball
County: Tipperary
Posts: 1177

842146
The column on Islam was disgustingly bigoted. To say that al-Qaeda fundamentalists and cultural dissidents represents Islam or Arabs is like saying the IRA represent the Irish or Catholics.

Not really roundball, I seem to recall Myers saying that a few hundred "moderate" Muslim scholars were calling for the release of a man who killed the governor of the Punjab region. He was murdered because he spoke out against blasphemy laws."Moderate" indeed eh? Of course, you cant tar all Muslims with the same brush, but come on, study the facts, look at whats happening in Britain, Christian schools being re-designated as Islamic ones, its sad to see the the erosion of any culture but this is reality and its happening across the water.

Sergeant_Slash (Cavan) - Posts: 2182 - 08/01/2011 19:36:10    842200

Seamus89
County: Kilkenny
Posts: 586


The Christian culture of a the West, tempered with a healthy and reasonable dose of secularism, is vastly superior to the Sharia Law culture of the Islamic world. If it wasn't, why are we so better off, economically, politically and socially?

Here here, well said.

Sergeant_Slash (Cavan) - Posts: 2182 - 08/01/2011 19:37:29    842201