Goodfella, Tir
County: All
Posts: 655

832180
Question for bad.monkey, htaem, jimbodub, paddyogall. Do you believe that you are innocent until proven guilty or guilty until proven innocent?

I'm just following Sinn fein/IRA's own standards in determining guilt. Was Robert McCartney, Jean McConville or Gerry McCabe guilty of anything? indeed they paid the ultimate price.

paddyogall (Mayo) - Posts: 5110 - 13/12/2010 18:50:06    832214

paddyogall You say there is no proof so why start such a debate ? i will get back to over enda am sure he has a family member leading his campaigns for elections etc and works in his office at his hometown .

Dellboypolecat (Tyrone) - Posts: 15069 - 13/12/2010 18:51:12    832217

Goodfella, Tir
County: All
Posts: 655

832180 Question for bad.monkey, htaem, jimbodub, paddyogall. Do you believe that you are innocent until proven guilty or guilty until proven innocent?

Neither. I would agree with the presumption of innocence until proven guilty in the legal system which I think you may be alluding to. This is why I have throughout this thread called for Bertie Ahern to produce this evidence if he has it, so they can be brought to justice through the courts.

However if someone commits a crime and covers it up so there is no evidence, are they any less guilty? of course not.

bad.monkey (USA) - Posts: 4649 - 13/12/2010 18:51:18    832218

This is the same Gerry Adams that protected his family history secret, yet for decades Sinn Fein/IRA have acted as a vigilante force in nationalist areas. Anyone suspected of being a drug dealer, pedophile or rapist can expect, at best, savage beatings, expulsion from the area or death. Gerry Adams' father /brother were not just some nobody - they were prominent IRA member back to the 1940s and Adams owes his position as a leader in part to his family connections

GerryMc (Mayo) - Posts: 218 - 13/12/2010 18:53:03    832220

I like the sinners policy on De-capitalization of the banks.... I think we should all embrace it!!!

Hag_and_Cheese (Tipperary) - Posts: 6103 - 13/12/2010 19:15:28    832242

Not sure why my last message was removed but any way gerry your wrong on your comments there 100% wrong

Dellboypolecat (Tyrone) - Posts: 15069 - 13/12/2010 19:39:30    832265

this is laughable. theres not even one piece of new evidence. all this wikileak shows is that bertie ahearn thought adams and mcguinness knew about this, yet we knew he thought this years ago. the funny thing is, all bad.monkeys arguement is based on what bertie thinks. he has continually side-tracked every question on this thread himself.

there no evidance to even suggest the IRA did it. a unionist press north and south immediately said it was the IRA but i wouldnt have expected different. ogall and monkey cant show one piece of evidence. monkey started the thread and ogall is agreeing with him. the onus is on them to prove their point, but like themaster i suppose neither of the two know what onus means

32_4_1 (Meath) - Posts: 4122 - 13/12/2010 19:39:50    832266

That story I wrote about Enda Kenny is actually true I dont know why it wasnt published.


http://www.thefreelibrary.com/BUS+CRASH+HERO+ENDA;+FG+chief+saves+woman+from+death+plunge.-a0128963366

paddyogall (Mayo) - Posts: 5110 - 13/12/2010 19:56:51    832286

untrue 32, I have said all along that Bertie Ahern should produce the evidence he says he has.

bad.monkey (USA) - Posts: 4649 - 13/12/2010 19:56:55    832287

paddyogall Anyone would try the same shame off trying to score votes this way .

Dellboypolecat (Tyrone) - Posts: 15069 - 13/12/2010 20:06:03    832297

32_4_1 i have not made these allegations, it was bertie ahern and he said he has evidence. i think he should produce it and have said this all along.

bad.monkey (USA) - Posts: 4649 - 13/12/2010 20:12:18    832301

32_4_1
County: Meath
Posts: 2928

What does onus mean?

paddyogall (Mayo) - Posts: 5110 - 13/12/2010 20:15:33    832307

bad.monkey
County: USA
Posts: 2612

831863 I don't think anyone is surprised that Adams and mcguinness knew about the robbery sure why wouldnt they, will be interesting to see if the evidence of the pair being on the IRA military command emerges. Perhaps they will even stand trial for their crimes, although in Ireland it seems politician are above the law as this wiki document would indicate

This is what you said. You have then agreed with Dell that evidence should be produced, not to find the truth of the matter merely to instigate criminal proceedings. You also make further reference abouts the denials made by these two as unconvincing yet have the temerity to believe leaked scribbled notes from the US ambassador. It would be more in your line to think about what you are saying and weigh up the evidence of your statements as opposed to blindly bashing Sinn Fein at every opportunity. We get the picture, you do not like Sinn Fein, however this constant thread starting about Sinn Fein is becoming tedious especially when you never have any arguments to back up your statements. As I have said previously, if there was sufficient evidence that Adams was in the IRA then why was he never imprisoned for it? Secondly, I don't think that McGuinness has ever denied that he was a senior member of the IRA. What's more is that he is quite a decent politician and even die hard Unionists have asserted this even though they do not like the man. Furthermore he is not a egotistical bottom feeder of the ilk to be found around the Dail this past 12 or so years

omaghredhand (Tyrone) - Posts: 3656 - 13/12/2010 20:27:56    832321

What the wikileaks document says is that Ahern said that he beleived that Adams and McGuinness were members of the IRA Army Council and that if they were and that if the IRA did the bank then they would have known about it.

Nothing more than conjecture on his part about two things. And no proof since that the IRA did do it. Only thing they have is dodgy conviction of a businessman.

Interesting as well that RTE completely ignored the really interesting thing in those leaks which was of evidence that the British state was directly involved in the murder of a solicitor. Not too often that western democracies have solicitors bumped off. You would almost imagine that it would be of interest to the intrepid journalists of Montrose...... actually you wouldn't :-(

hurlingdub (Dublin) - Posts: 6978 - 14/12/2010 08:54:04    832451

bad.monkey
County: USA
Posts: 2612

832301 32_4_1 i have not made these allegations, it was bertie ahern and he said he has evidence. i think he should produce it and have said this all along.


I think the heading title you have on this topic would suggest otherwise bad monkey!!

Aussie_Duke (Tyrone) - Posts: 97 - 14/12/2010 11:05:39    832507

bad.monkey
County: USA
Posts: 2612

831954
Sergeant_Slash I think it is absolutely digusting and reprehensible. Surely you dont support of this type of collusion and killing???

Hopefully the Irish government will produce the evidence they have regarding the Northern Bank robbery and criminal proceedings can take place.

Adams and McGuinness denials that they knew about the robbery beforehand are about as convincing as Adams denials he was ever a member of the IRA!

Of course I dont support this kind of collusion, it is vile and detestable, but then when has Britain ever recognised a nations right to independence? I suppose when they stop thinking they can police the world, other countries may respect them more. It is imperative, that justice be done on those who robbed the bank, the public good requires that the rule of law be upheld. Therefore I would also call on the British government to come clean about any other murders they colluded on.

Sergeant_Slash (Cavan) - Posts: 2182 - 14/12/2010 12:04:38    832543

OJ Simpson didnt kill his wife and that other bloke....

Hey he says so... it must be true.

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20763 - 14/12/2010 13:47:51    832624

Why was Al Capone sent to prison?

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20763 - 14/12/2010 14:05:51    832640

jimbodub
County: Dublin
Posts: 7268

832624 OJ Simpson didnt kill his wife and that other bloke....

Hey he says so... it must be true.

I think more importantly, a jury agreed with him. That is after all, the delights of justice and due process is it not?

omaghredhand (Tyrone) - Posts: 3656 - 14/12/2010 14:09:45    832647

jimbodub
County: Dublin
Posts: 7270

832640 Why was Al Capone sent to prison?

Tax evasion, your point being?

omaghredhand (Tyrone) - Posts: 3656 - 14/12/2010 14:25:08    832672