51longago
County: Mayo

We can argue all day abouts the rights and wrongs of either goal !! What lost the game for Kildare was their inability to score from easy frees. They have only themselves to blame as the missed two or three very easy ones !!


No, the best team won.

______________________

I disagree, Kildare were deprived what was a legitimate score (point) and Down were awarded a score (goal) which wasn't a legitimate score.

The chances Kildare missed should not be used to deflect away from these two facts.

Kildare imo did not lose the game due to scoring chances (frees) that they missed, they lost the game because of a number of bad judgements made by the match officials.

Take three points (goal) away from the Down score and then add 1 point to the Kildare score and you'll find that Kildare were 2 points better than Down on the day.

BallsMcQ (USA) - Posts: 941 - 30/08/2010 12:51:09    760010

Balls indeed,

No comment about the numerous decisions that went against Down then, that's convenient!

Ulsterman (Antrim) - Posts: 9840 - 30/08/2010 12:57:48    760022

The main problem we have is we are messing with the rules too much. If the square ball rule that was inposed in the National League was in place yesterday well Coulters goal would have stood..We are choping and changing too much..95% of rules changes each year for the National League are disbanded before the championship..
LEAVE THE GAME ALONE FOR 5 YEARS..GIVE PLAYERS AND REFS A CHANCE TO PERFECT WHAT WE HAVE.
We are the only sport i know who year in year out seem to need to make rule changes for the sake of it..Petty stupid rules like stepping over the sideline when taking sideline kick.
Major things like the Clock for timekeeping and video evidence keep getting pushed aside.

richiej (UK) - Posts: 1430 - 30/08/2010 12:58:48    760028

Everyone is focusing on the two bad decisions that went our way. What about the countless amounts of other bad decisions that went against us. The kildare goal should also have been disallowed and they were bein awarded soft frees throughout the game to the extent that they were looking for them. That is disgraceful. Pat McEnaney did have a bad game but not for the reasons you are saying. He was bias towards KIldare all day.

MourneMan95 (Down) - Posts: 27 - 30/08/2010 13:15:12    760067

It got to the stage where the Down fans were booing in frustration and anger at the number of non-frees that were going Kildare's way.

Ulsterman (Antrim) - Posts: 9840 - 30/08/2010 13:18:07    760072

I think the commentators remarked before the game that the two umpires at the disputed goal end were ex-referees. And people have been calling for the "old men" umpires to be replaced by referees, under the impression that that would benefit umpiring decisions. That theory took a bit of a blow yesterday.

Hard luck to Kildare, but those things happen. Congratulations to Down. See you in the final.

Midleton (Cork) - Posts: 646 - 30/08/2010 13:28:00    760086

There were some bad calls in yesterdays game, but Kildare didnt deserve to win, Down were the better side and deserved to win.

Referee's are human, they make mistakes! But the big problem here, like in the Leinster final is that referee has not been helped by his umpires. Between a linesman, two umpires and a referee, surely one of them has to make the right call. None of the officials yesterday seen Coulter inside the small square, which is terrible officiating.

The GAA should have a system of Wimbledon type, three calls per team or something, or a tv official for controversial scores or penalty decisions. Its getting to the point that the game is decided by poor calls, Or the referees interpretation of an incident.

I know this will all sound like sour grapes, but Dublin were harshly treated against Cork. The refs interpretation of the game was very funny to watch, when Cork attacked he held the whistle in his mouth and when Dublin attacked he held the whistle in his hand. The ref was quicker to blow for frees against Dublin, and gave Cork some really handy frees. Even the most staunch anti-Dub supporter would have to admit some of the frees Cork got were SOFT to say the least.
Some things that were brought up after the game; Paddy Kelly kicked a ball wide and it was given as a point. Post-game people then said well that evened out with McCauley open hand passing a ball over the bar. But that didnt even out at all, if you look at the footage, if a point wasnt given the ref would have surely had to have given Dublin a penalty as the Cork player is hauling him back by the the jersey. And the penalty given against Dublin, I have never seen so much waffle talked about overzealous tackling. If that was a penalty Cork should have had ten penalties and Dublin twenty.

I feel no sympathy for Kildare supporters. Many of my friends who are Kildare supporters were all saying it was a definate penalty against Dublin, when clearly it was a free out. So they just got a taste of what Dublin supporters see every year, bad calls and no forum to change it. Notice last weekend Dublin were gracious in defeat, because most Dublin supporters are used to seeing bad calls go against their team. It comes with the territory of being a Dublin fan. For Dublin to win they have to win well, as if its a tight game Dublin usually come out on the wrong end of a "decision". And last weekend Dublin LOST. They should have won, were the better side, but didnt put a big enough gap between Cork and themselves to prevent a "decision". So Dublin desrved to lose!

The GAA needs to look at tv officals. Even test it out in minor or u21 games. Just to see CAN it work. Clearly what we have doesnt work!

Also timekeeping needs to be taken out of the refs hands. One area where ladies football is streets ahead of their male counterparts!

JoeyBloggs (Dublin) - Posts: 7 - 30/08/2010 14:06:20    760150

Also timekeeping needs to be taken out of the refs hands. One area where ladies football is streets ahead of their male counterparts!
JoeyBloggs , 30/08/2010 at 14:06

I agree they should stop the clock for injuries and on 70 mins the game is over no messing about

thurlesblues (Tipperary) - Posts: 4475 - 30/08/2010 14:18:05    760158

Best team won bad errors both by umpires as pat went in to asked them but kildare goal should have been dissallowed also 11 steps taken . Also time for poeple to lay off refs and fair play to kildare fans not looking to attack the ref .

Dellboypolecat (Tyrone) - Posts: 15069 - 30/08/2010 14:25:20    760167

I think it is impossible to judge whether that made a difference. I do think the kildare goal should also have been disallowed. The thing that i recall is down having a great goal chance when they were 6 points up and instead taking a point. should they have been down (no pun intended) that would have been goal. I thought it deserved a goal for that move. As much as I think people are putting too much emphasis on marty clarke that was a great pass.

dstuction (Donegal) - Posts: 1209 - 30/08/2010 14:29:30    760175

It is sad that such a great great game of football and one of the most sporting at that is beiing talked about only for the bad decisions made by Pat mc Ananey and his officials. I was gutted for the Kildare players and their people. at is normally the best and most sensible referee in the game. What is a bit disapointing is that many posters are concentrating on the Down goal that should have been disallowed for what it was, a square ball and ignoirng the Kildare goal that should have been disallowed for the nine steps he took. These two MISTAKES cancel each other out and I think the point and some of his other calls, more or less cancel each other out too. Not his best day's work but nobody's perfect. Congratulations to both teams for a great match.

Basher (Antrim) - Posts: 15 - 30/08/2010 14:37:41    760195

Why are people criticising Pat mc Enaney. If anyone looks at the square ball incident, he checked with his umpires unlike the Leinster final, were the ref trusted his own judgement rather than check with his umpires.

PK57 (Louth) - Posts: 1664 - 30/08/2010 15:34:57    760301

PK57
County: Louth
Posts: 649


And the kildare fans acted brilliant unlike the louth fans.

Dellboypolecat (Tyrone) - Posts: 15069 - 30/08/2010 15:45:05    760316

Dellboypolecat
County: Tyrone
Posts: 12566

And the kildare fans acted brilliant unlike 6 louth fans.

fixed

JuanVeron (Westmeath) - Posts: 1866 - 30/08/2010 16:02:03    760336

fed up listening to all this talk bout kildare being robbed cos of this square ball. granted it was a bad error on the umpires behalf but this shouldt take away from a great down victory. at the end of the day the kildare goal should also have been disallowed so it ballanced itself out! i know its devastating for kildare but hats off to down, they played tremendously all over the field and fully deserved their win. comiserations to kildare and congrats to down and heres me hoping they finish off the job in the final.

gagaman (Longford) - Posts: 67 - 30/08/2010 16:08:44    760348

Everybody cant win..
All losing teams can feel hard done by......

It seems that there is a general unhappiness with officiating.
There seems to be a great deal of tilting at windmills, fiddling while Rome burns and rearranging the deckchairs on the titanic.

Why cant they sort out the rules and then enforce them?
In my opinion there are too many old men who are determined to resist change especially new technology.
If it works in rugby why wont it work in other sports?

Re yesterday I would imagine things just happened too quickly(as they do) and the umpires were ball watching.
Maybe it looked as if the ball was going dead so they were trying to make sure whether it was a point or wide?
If they were tracking the ball how were they simultaneously going to see where Coulter was?

Overall though it seems that referees are unsure of what approach to take re crucial and critical decisions. There is still the shadow of John Gough hanging over them. That was a watershed in refereeing. Now most referees have to try to please the powers that be/assessors. That is what determines their behavior and that is why referees like the dreadful Kinneavy still get matches.

BIG SACKS (Tyrone) - Posts: 1681 - 30/08/2010 18:39:07    760596

This was started as a new thread and has been moved here to keep all relevant discussion in the one place.


30/08/2010 20:27:28
Bobkelso
County: USA
Posts: 26

760734 Every year the championship is getting worse due to the performances of the officials. Last year the hurling final, Mayo - Meath quarter final, this year the leinster final and the All Ireland semi-Final. We have the 2 Finals left and one wonders what way are the officials going to influence these games.
What Pat McEnaney done yesterday was wrong. In 1996 the same referee cost Mayo an all Ireland. We know what has happened to Mayo since. I hope that Kildare don't follow suit. I was surprise that the Kildare players did not at least demand some answers from him after the whistle.
For the Kildare fans who spent considerable money following their team all year with trips to Antrim and Derry, what happened yesterday is not good enough. Pat Mcenaney should explain to people like Dermot Earley, John Doyle and Kieran McGeeney why he made some of the decisions he did yesterday. I agree with poster who has asked for an apology.
Another point I will have to raise is why is there an ulster referee in charge when an ulster team is playing?.
Dissappointed for Kildare. Congratulations to Down. They have some fine footballers and in Marty Clarke have a player that everyone enjoys watching. The talk today should be about the way this man plays football. His vision, Passing and score taking are first class. Unfortunately though there has been no talk of that in the aftermath of the game.
Will the decision makers in the GAA do anything to change it now. i somehow doubt it. - Discuss
30/08/2010 21:31:28
sponger
County: Wicklow
Posts: 911

760820 Bottom line for me is that if Kildare had not conceded that goal they may well have gone on to win. Down were not at the races and Kildare were bossing them.
30/08/2010 21:41:59
Burnsey
County: Down
Posts: 265

760830 Rather not, got a life !
30/08/2010 21:57:36
Dellboypolecat
County: Tyrone
Posts: 12601

760865 Give over you bunch of whingers and the cheek to accuse other poeple for doing it.
30/08/2010 22:03:37
podge100
County: Fermanagh
Posts: 3

760882 have to agree as an ulster man that it was strange for an ulster ref to get that game on sunday. however, the "point" was given by the umpire not the ref,,yes Coulters goal was a square-ball but the kildare goal was scored after the ulster referee allowed the player to take 8-9 steps before striking his goal,.

Administrator (None) - Posts: 2275 - 31/08/2010 09:39:22    760923

This was started as a new thread and has been moved here to keep all relevant discussion in the one place.


30/08/2010 20:27:28
Bobkelso
County: USA
Posts: 26

760734 Every year the championship is getting worse due to the performances of the officials. Last year the hurling final, Mayo - Meath quarter final, this year the leinster final and the All Ireland semi-Final. We have the 2 Finals left and one wonders what way are the officials going to influence these games.
What Pat McEnaney done yesterday was wrong. In 1996 the same referee cost Mayo an all Ireland. We know what has happened to Mayo since. I hope that Kildare don't follow suit. I was surprise that the Kildare players did not at least demand some answers from him after the whistle.
For the Kildare fans who spent considerable money following their team all year with trips to Antrim and Derry, what happened yesterday is not good enough. Pat Mcenaney should explain to people like Dermot Earley, John Doyle and Kieran McGeeney why he made some of the decisions he did yesterday. I agree with poster who has asked for an apology.
Another point I will have to raise is why is there an ulster referee in charge when an ulster team is playing?.
Dissappointed for Kildare. Congratulations to Down. They have some fine footballers and in Marty Clarke have a player that everyone enjoys watching. The talk today should be about the way this man plays football. His vision, Passing and score taking are first class. Unfortunately though there has been no talk of that in the aftermath of the game.
Will the decision makers in the GAA do anything to change it now. i somehow doubt it. - Discuss
30/08/2010 21:31:28
sponger
County: Wicklow
Posts: 911

760820 Bottom line for me is that if Kildare had not conceded that goal they may well have gone on to win. Down were not at the races and Kildare were bossing them.
30/08/2010 21:41:59
Burnsey
County: Down
Posts: 265

760830 Rather not, got a life !
30/08/2010 21:57:36
Dellboypolecat
County: Tyrone
Posts: 12601

760865 Give over you bunch of whingers and the cheek to accuse other poeple for doing it.
30/08/2010 22:03:37
podge100
County: Fermanagh
Posts: 3

760882 have to agree as an ulster man that it was strange for an ulster ref to get that game on sunday. however, the "point" was given by the umpire not the ref,,yes Coulters goal was a square-ball but the kildare goal was scored after the ulster referee allowed the player to take 8-9 steps before striking his goal,.

Administrator (None) - Posts: 2275 - 31/08/2010 09:41:25    760925

Down and Kildare were close; relatively equal in skills with neither team being as impressive as their performance in the quarter final. Both goals should have been disallowed and the Kildare point should have been allowed-therefore still putting Down as the winners (by a point). No doubt the Coulter square ball goal may have threw Kildare in the first half but they came back from a significant Down lead-shows their grittiness. However, Down held it in the end and that counts too.

Pat Mac at least aimed to do the right thing and did consult with the umpires; however, this years championship is gone beyond a joke in poor ref/umpire decisions/errors and if video evidence can be used for discipline then why not for some scoring decisions. Active in-the-game video analysis or use of video replay to support the ref is a good call for the championship especially for any unclear scores or discipline issues. It is evident from the criticism from many counties both this year and last year that these human errors or poor decisions are at the least putting question marks on the final score or at worse, blantingly costing teams their game.

kerrykerry (Kerry) - Posts: 1779 - 31/08/2010 11:20:34    761058

Kerrykerry,

I have been highlighting the refereeing problems in the G.A.A. for many years now and this year is the best example with all the problems. The G.A.A. have decided to ignore the problem and hence the problem gets worse from one year to the next. The referees are doing their best and i could not say that any of them are biased but there needs to be a proper examination of the problem by those in power and a new training scheme put into practice. There are no two referees who officiate in the same way and this causes confusion to players, every championship Sunday is different !! Time now for the G.A.A. to act !!

Cavan_Slasher (Cavan) - Posts: 10253 - 31/08/2010 12:40:58    761192