artisan
County: Down
Posts: 137

727747
Scruffy2donut

I am a lefty and would not label any man a fascist based on what I have read on this thread - anyone who does so is out of line.

I think Hugo Chavez would deal with this issue somewhat differently - being a socialist does not mean turning a blind eye to crime.

I grew up in a working class housing estate and was brought up to treat people with respect, I think the idea that all criminals are so because of social

disadvantage extremely insulting.

Here here artisan well said. I can understand entirely why it would be insulting to someone from a working class class background to be labelled a stereotype criminal. Thats basically the point Im trying to argue, that your social status has little or nothing to do with crime. Everyone commits them, rich or poor. Just please try and explain that to patrique, as for him, its the inconvenient truth.

Scruffy2Donut (Cavan) - Posts: 1112 - 29/07/2010 08:56:49    727800

The working class argument was about 'normal' offences not the murphy type offences. It is undeniable that most petty crime that makes people end up in jail is done by people from a working class background. That's just the way it is.

hurlinspuds (Cork) - Posts: 1494 - 29/07/2010 10:24:14    727859

hurlinspuds
County: Cork
Posts: 301

727859 The working class argument was about 'normal' offences not the murphy type offences. It is undeniable that most petty crime that makes people end up in jail is done by people from a working class background. That's just the way it is.

The most convictions for sure, not sure about the most crimes committed.

Breffni40 (Cavan) - Posts: 12291 - 29/07/2010 10:34:22    727872

"most petty crime that makes people end up in jail is done by people from a working class background."


What a beautifully unpretentious statement.

Most crimes alright (from petty to moyder), and definitely most convictions, but fraud and for some reason spousal-murders seem to be a middle class domain......

Psychopathy however, knows no social boundries!

Pedrito (Dublin) - Posts: 1111 - 29/07/2010 12:14:20    728009

seanie_boy
County: Tyrone
Posts: 337

727712 So socio-economic differences are an excuse to murder? If you grow up in these places dont you have an idea of what is right and wrong in the moral sense?

brendtheredhand (Tyrone) - Posts: 10897 - 29/07/2010 12:48:02    728078

omaghredhand
County: Tyrone
Posts: 2085

727773 Figures quoted by Amnesty International comparing death penalty states against non death penalty states in the United States show consistently, year on year from 1990 until 2007 that the murder rate is consistently lower in non death penalty states.(Amnesty International USA Death and Deterrence). However, Cassell(2004) would argue that although the death penalty will not prevent every murder, it will prevent some. Is this sufficient to justify taking someone's life?

No omaghredhand, I dissagree with Cassell, because it also perhaps creates reasons for murder so what's the real net effect.....
Difficult though it is for us law abiding folk, but place yourself, as best you can, in the mind of a potential killer; when they're making the decision to kill, do you think they'd say to 'emselves "Oh better not, I'll get put to death, rather than a 30 year sentence"??? I'd doubt it, they'll proceed with their plans and do their damndest to avoid detection regardless - psychologically "fight or flight" reflexes won't kick in because the power is in their hands (obviously only in premeditated circumstances) and they'll be assuming they can get away with it anyway, otherwise why do it. I really don't think murderers account for the sentence they'll get before they commit the heinous act....
However, when the ol' net of justice is closing in on 'em and their survival instincts take over when faced with the possibility of death, then the "fight of flight" instincts kick in and they'll kill to avoid capture more readily if faced with execution than prison....

Ultimately, it works like this, if you're put to death for one murder you won't be killed again for any subsequent murders, so to kill an arresting officer (assuming there's overwhelming evidence against you for the original moyder) is essentially risk free, whereas with a time-related punishment you get more time for more murders, simple as....

My hypothesis only, I've not conducted experiments on killers.....

Pedrito (Dublin) - Posts: 1111 - 29/07/2010 12:49:24    728083

seanie_boy
County: Tyrone
Posts: 337

727712 So socio-economic differences are an excuse to murder? If you grow up in these places dont you have an idea of what is right and wrong in the moral sense?
-------------------------
In the case of the gentleman conerned,I dont believe its a simple issue of knowing the difference between whats right and whats wrong, in his case its a question of dysfunctional internal wiring, or as perdito rightly put it, physcopathy. A physcopath transcends all social and racial boundaries, they know nothing of societys rules other than the need to fulfill their own urges, be they murderous, sexual or whatever. If this man has never been diagnosed as such then (a). how can he be treated so that he will no longer be a danger to society and those around him, with the possibility of eventual release or (b) incarcerated for a sufficient enough period if it has been deemed that he cannot be 'cured'. Why should the individual be given the choice of whether can accept treatment or no?

brendtheredhand (Tyrone) - Posts: 10897 - 29/07/2010 12:58:37    728107

Scruffy

If Seamus (a carpentar on 40,000 a year) attacks Mary (a solicitor on 200,000 a year) at half 12 at night outside a pub on a side street, then you reckon Seamus is not to blame, and Mary should blame Fianna Fail or an Irish fascist group? Please explain.

Good point man.

However if Fiachra (solicitor 200,000 a year) attacks John (carpentar 40,000 a year) at half 12 at night outside a pub on a street then who does John blame then?!

And how likely is it that Fiachra will get off.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13795 - 29/07/2010 13:00:47    728114

I would agree with you Pedrito. The posts I put up were part of an assignment on the reintroduction of capital punishment. Unfortunately I had only saved up to this point so I cannot find the rest. My view is that the government has not got the right to kill any of its citizens in order to punsih them for crimes committed. The first problem is for what crimes would the penalty be incurred. Murder? Violent assault? Paedophilia? Rape?. All repulsive acts and all certainly deserving of heavy punishment, but death?, I don't think so. As stated earlier, the justice system is there to punish as only as small part of its duties. Rehabilitation and deterrence are more important in my view. There are those whose rehablitation is not likely,I would suggest Larry Murphy is one of these people, however surely life imprisonment is suitable punishment. In effect he is losing his life and his imprisonment should be tough in terms of facilities and priviliges. Deterrence is only possible by education and target hardening. Educate people on the impact of crime on both victim and perpetrator and by effective policing and security planning.

omaghredhand (Tyrone) - Posts: 3656 - 29/07/2010 13:50:48    728208

To be honest...

I was hoping some lump hammer of an inmate would have got to him before his release and do us all a favour. Do this Universe a favour…

The man is evil filth. Pure evil filth and he deserves to be treated as such. No therapy in the world can cure this man

I wish him nothing but harm and misfortune for the rest of his putrid existence... there is no punishment after death, only in the here and now.

Larry, I hope you live the rest of your life in fear… because the hunter may soon become the prey. Let's see how you like it you piece of ****

I'd be worried if I was you Larry... :)

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20763 - 29/07/2010 17:36:07    728632

MesAmis
County: Dublin
Posts: 1442

728114 Scruffy

If Seamus (a carpentar on 40,000 a year) attacks Mary (a solicitor on 200,000 a year) at half 12 at night outside a pub on a side street, then you reckon Seamus is not to blame, and Mary should blame Fianna Fail or an Irish fascist group? Please explain.

Good point man.

However if Fiachra (solicitor 200,000 a year) attacks John (carpentar 40,000 a year) at half 12 at night outside a pub on a street then who does John blame then?!

The Boogie??

dhorse (Laois) - Posts: 11374 - 29/07/2010 20:56:43    728946

Well Brend we dont know enough about his psychological state of mind to say that treatment would or would not work for him.Only the Doctors that dealt with him could have an idea about that.Nevertheless it seems he is fully aware of his actions and knows the difference between right and wrong.Given that he was offered treatment and refused then he should be kept in prison.

seanie_boy (Tyrone) - Posts: 4235 - 30/07/2010 09:20:16    729087

dhorse
County: Laois
Posts: 5578

728946 MesAmis
County: Dublin
Posts: 1442

728114 Scruffy

If Seamus (a carpentar on 40,000 a year) attacks Mary (a solicitor on 200,000 a year) at half 12 at night outside a pub on a side street, then you reckon Seamus is not to blame, and Mary should blame Fianna Fail or an Irish fascist group? Please explain.

Good point man.

However if Fiachra (solicitor 200,000 a year) attacks John (carpentar 40,000 a year) at half 12 at night outside a pub on a street then who does John blame then?!

The Boogie??


Well he can't very well blame it on the sunshine, moonlight or good times now can he?

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13795 - 30/07/2010 13:41:23    729525

MesAmis
County: Dublin
Posts: 1445

729525 dhorse
County: Laois
Posts: 5578

728946 MesAmis
County: Dublin
Posts: 1442


Well he can't very well blame it on the sunshine, moonlight or good times now can he?

S'pose not, unless he's gettin' a few nixers

dhorse (Laois) - Posts: 11374 - 30/07/2010 14:45:59    729642

Human remains found in Wicklow Mountains

30.07.10



Gardai have sealed off an area of woodland in Blessington, Co. Wicklow, after the discovery of what appears to be human remains.

The remains have been taken to the State Laboratory for analysis.

The discovery was made at a tree clearing at Manor Kilbride in the Wicklow Mountains at around 3 o'clock yesterday afternoon.

A technical examination of the scene will be carried out by Garda experts today.

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20763 - 30/07/2010 17:13:31    729890

jimbodub
County: Dublin
Posts: 6176

729890 Human remains found in Wicklow Mountains

About 4 miles from here the remains of one of the"disappeared"was found a short while ago. There doesn't seem to be the same appetite for locking the perpetrators up for ever

dhorse (Laois) - Posts: 11374 - 30/07/2010 19:22:36    730056

Anyone watching the Vincent Browne show last night ? This issue was being discussed and it appears that Larry will have 24/7 Garda surveillance when he gets out on 12th August. The journalists will be keeping a watch on him too. Looks like he will have to move to the city as he is not wanted in his home town. Hope they keep a good eye on him. He did not speak to anyone while in prison and is remorseless !!

Cavan_Slasher (Cavan) - Posts: 10253 - 06/08/2010 15:03:24    738211

Convicted rapist Larry Murphy has been released from prison this morning.

Murphy was collected in a grey taxi and drove off without making any comment to the media.

The 45-year-old was due for early release for good behaviour.

He has served ten-and-a-half years of a 15-year jail term for the rape and attempted murder of a woman in February 2000 in the Wicklow mountains.

Murphy, a carpenter from Baltinglass, kidnapped his victim and drove into the mountains where he raped her repeatedly before he put a shopping bag over her head and forced her into the boot of his car.

The woman, then in her mid 20s, was rescued by two men who were hunting.

Murphy fled the scene and was arrested a short time later at his home.

He was released under an established practice in this country, which allows many prisoners to be granted remission equivalent to a quarter of the sentence imposed.

Murphy to be monitored

Gardaí said a management plan has been put in place to monitor the activities and whereabouts of Murphy.

They said that while he does not have to formally register his address with them for seven days, the national sex offenders management unit will know where he is and what he is doing.

The unit is responsible for the management of over 1,100 sex offenders in Ireland.

Murphy will be considered a high-risk offender and therefore will also be visited by a member of the Garda Síochána at least once a month following his release.

Speaking on RTÉ's Morning Ireland, Dublin Rape Crisis Centre Chief Executive Ellen O'Malley-Dunlop said that any remission of a sex offender's sentence should be based on their participation in treatment programmes in prison.

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20763 - 12/08/2010 10:30:16    743882

What an absolute joke our justice system is, when people like him are set free to torment innocent women.

Scruffy2Donut (Cavan) - Posts: 1112 - 12/08/2010 10:47:14    743904

Time for a change in the system of reducing sentences for good behaviour. If Larry Murphy refused to attend therapy then he should get no remission !! If anyone does not behave in prison then they should get extra sentences !! You expect good behaviour in prison !!

The problem seems to be that there are not enough prison places for the amount of prisoners. Time to stop putting people away for petty crimes and instead give community service orders. Prison should only be for dangerous people !!

Cavan_Slasher (Cavan) - Posts: 10253 - 12/08/2010 11:39:09    743966