hi lads,orchardman here,read dingles post on the big fella and the olympics.let me clear this up....in 1908 a man by the name of michael collins did enter the discus throwing,he didnt finish 8th as dingle said,he finished 11th,and because he didnt finish in the top ten no personal records of the competitor was noted,other than the name.in 1908 the big fella was living in the shepherds bush area of london,which was very close to the olympic arena,but it cannot be confirmed for definiate if this discus thrower was in fact the big fella,even though its highly probable.....ard mhacha abu.

orchardman (Armagh) - Posts: 158 - 07/09/2008 23:05:22    94676

Orchardman - I agree with your post that Collins finished 11th rather than 8th (my error) but the evidence that it was the Big Fellow is indisputable, I was not aware of the fact until I read it in the Ir T article in early August (Sat. 2nd I think or Wed 6th) so I researched it with members of the Collins family & yes they were well aware that Mick had participated in the Olympics in London. Why it was not mentioned in TPC's book is probably because TPC never inquired about it & most attemtion was focused on Collins' GAA activities in London.

dingle1 (Clare) - Posts: 805 - 08/09/2008 12:07:38    94994

Lads,
Last monday night I watch a programme on RTE called 'where was your family during the famine' as it followed the family tree of Eddie Hobbs in Cork, Jasmine Guinness in Dublin and John Waters in Roscommon/Sligo trace their family tree back to the famine.

I must say that this was one of the most educational programmes I have ever watched on an episode of Irish history that I know very little about.

I know like most of the 1m dead and 1m emigrated and the fact that there was plenty of food in the country and the English and all that, but for the first time, this programme actually read out the gruesome eyewitness accounts of local 'healthy' people who seen with their own eyes and commented on the images before them.
They spoke of 'barely recognisable as humans', 'pathetic creatures' and such language that brought home to Snufalufagus the true horror of this fiasco!
Amazed at the way these 'real words' from first hand eyewitnesses brought home to me the true horror of this better than any history book ever did. Have a new found interest in this dreadful history to find out more!
The only evidence in Lucan of the famine left in Lucan is a filled in hole in the wall of Lucan House (Italian Embassy) which was used to pass out food and medicine. Long forgotten.

Lads, Tuesday night I watched Part 1 of Cromwell in Ireland and the concluding part 2 is on next tuesday!...Watch it! 10.15.

Regards,

Snufalufagus.....Laochra Gael

Snufalufagus (Dublin) - Posts: 8100 - 12/09/2008 15:26:52    98987

Missed that program monday night sounds great in the middle of tracing me own family tree at the moment. Is there another eposide on next monday. It's a bit like "You do you think you are" on bbc not a bad ould show at all. I'd been waiting for the Cromwell show for ages was interesting the way the professor for cambridge danced around questions and even half tried to defend his actions. Cromwell is fairly high on a pole of great english men definately won't be thought of that way in ireland. Waitin eagerly for next weeks installment.

Hag_and_Cheese (Tipperary) - Posts: 6103 - 12/09/2008 15:54:04    99038

The sentance i used to sum up cromwell at the end of my last post wasn't printed but i think most of ye would guess the lines it was along.

Hag_and_Cheese (Tipperary) - Posts: 6103 - 12/09/2008 16:43:49    99090

This thread is far to long-I can't keep up.

BeanSoupYUM (Tyrone) - Posts: 51 - 12/09/2008 17:06:48    99117

I saw that programme on the Famine and agree it was very educational (and moving). A lot of very generous landlords who did what they could in terms of establishing soup kitchens for their tenants etc. as well as the ones we all know about who evicted literally thousands of very sick people off their holdings when they became too ill to work the land.

I was a bit disappointed with the analysis of the cause of the Famine. They effectively ignored that aspect of it. Nobody mentioned that Ireland was cleared of produce to feed the British army fighting its colonial wars in The Crimea and that this policy is what led to the deaths of 1m Irish people.

John Waters made a good point, he said he disliked the use of the term Potato Famine. I have been saying this for years, its one of those euphemistic terms that is designed to gloss over what was effectively an Ethnic Cleansing policy of the British.

There was no Potato Famine, there was a Famine, full stop ... caused because the British would not allow Irish people to eat any produce other than a failed potato crop while at the same time sending all locally produced Irish vegetables overseas to try to expand her already bloated empire. This Potato Famine lark makes it sound like the Irish were short a few spuds for a few years.

So lads and ladies don't fall into the trap. There was no Potato Famine, there was just a Famine (or Great Famine) that caused death, disease, and despair to an entire nation.

One very funny thing from the program. Turns out Eddie Hobbs' great great great grandfather was responsible for setting the price of butter on a global scale down in Cork and to have the job he had he would have to be very good with numbers !!! Its all in the breeding don't you know.

Beacaire Gorm (Dublin) - Posts: 597 - 12/09/2008 17:21:50    99127

See what ya mean 'HAG'!

Trying to make out that his 'new model army' went too far in Drogheda and Wexford and its not what he had wanted! They said he hung some of his own men for pilaging though!

But you never know! A man like him with the mistaken belief that God was on his side was capable of anything!
Interesting parallel there with 'General Sir John Grenfell Maxwell' who was brought in as CinC of Crown Forces in Ireland during and after the '16 rebellion. Known as 'The man who lost Ireland' he was a hate figure for the Irish.
He was ordered by the British Prime Minister 'not to overstep the mark' while at the same time he had to 'crush the rebellion and execute those found guilty of the highest levels of treason!
Question: How do you do both?
Maxwell was a military man in an impossible situation!
We hate these figures from our history because of what they did, but sometimes when you actually read about them and the sometimes impossible situations they were in (and the times they were in) you realise that they might just have been creatures made of clay too!!

Regards,

Snufalufagus.....Laochra Gael

Snufalufagus (Dublin) - Posts: 8100 - 12/09/2008 17:24:09    99131

I've read a book about the nenagh workhouse in famine times errie stuff but if i have my sources right there was still a booming trade in wheat etc. leaving the country out of wexford and dublin (not have a go at either county here) yet the whole country was starving i'd have to agree with you it was a type of Ethnic Cleansing.

As For cromwell, In Drogheda and Wexford the people he slaughtered were irish protestants whom he would have fought with in the past looks like they were slaughtered for being Royalists really so to justify this on religious grounds there dosen't add up. And there was it was stated that a truse was agreed in wexford as they attacked, plainly heavy handed tactics to scare the natives.

Granted he could have been praised as a leader and tactition for Parlimentarians in England but in ireland he was just a tyrant hell bent on revenge by all accounts.

Hag_and_Cheese (Tipperary) - Posts: 6103 - 12/09/2008 18:07:58    99161

just seen the last few minutes of the famine programme, was bullin as i wanted all week to watch it, watched the programme on cromwell, when i heard he hung some of his men for pilaging taught to myself maybe he's not too bad but after seeing what happened in drogheda and wexford i changed my mind. used to ge the gealteacht up in beutiful Árainn mór. used to tell us a story of how 300 woman and children were murdered by his army while hiding in a cave on the coast. now dont quote me on it , twas never the best in irish. also theres an old graveyard in finglas village and every year our school was takin to it as part of the finglas festival, used to scare the crap outta me as there be bits of bone layin around. anyway theres an old high cross that stands in this graveyard but going across the middle near the base theres a cut where someone halfed it. story is that local people cut it in half so that cromwells lads wouldnt get upset while passin through

lino_de_legend (Dublin) - Posts: 816 - 13/09/2008 00:40:35    99316

Personally I think Cromwell was a nutcase. Unfortunately I didn't see the programme but saw the famine one.
From my personal study of history Cromwell was born into a wealthy family until they felt the pinch and then he had to do some REAL work out in the fields. Here he became depressed and had to attend whatever the equvialant of a phycologist was them days. Riddled with the propoganda about what the catholics did to the prodestants he joined the army and soon became involved in politics. A man of the bible who interpeted it to justify his killings.
Any man who would kill his supporters in order to try and gain support from the irish is mad. And then to go raving mad on a killing spree and murder members of his own faith in order "to please God".

This boyo needed to be put in a straight jacket or whatever they used them days

datsrite (Sligo) - Posts: 473 - 13/09/2008 21:24:14    99457

'Cromwell in Ireland' - Part Two.

Tonight 10:15

Regards,

Snufalufagus....Laochra Gael

Snufalufagus (Dublin) - Posts: 8100 - 16/09/2008 15:30:44    100929

Saw "Who do you think you are" last night - Charlie Bird.

Or the "Dirty Bird's" as i not call em his grandfather was a bigimist!

Hag_and_Cheese (Tipperary) - Posts: 6103 - 16/09/2008 16:12:33    100994

First we had him in the Amazon and now this. Is this what my licence fee is going on? Can't suffer the man - nor PK, nor Joe D, nor G Ryan ....

Dubinmeath (Dublin) - Posts: 1123 - 16/09/2008 16:34:54    101034

Jeez, Cromwell was a grand lad. Seems that his nephew was worse!
Excellent documentary! Lots of new knowledge I never had a clue about!

Always admired the way that (for the most part) men of either side stuck to the 'terms' they offered an enemy!...honourable!

I was once told as a young fella, that even when you hammer out the lowest price for something never degrade a man. Always give him a bit back! That way you are not seen as a vulcher and you leave the door open for to do more business with that person in future on favourable terms!......A lesson not forgotten!

Regards,

Snufalufagus.....Laochra Gael

Snufalufagus (Dublin) - Posts: 8100 - 17/09/2008 10:07:58    101413

Aye the nephew had other tactics to starve people out maybe killed more that way but the bloodlust of cromwell. I say he wasn't best pleased not to get his hands on Hugh Dubh O'Neill i suppossed he earned respect after clonmel.

i was amazed to hear that about 50,000 were shipped out as slaves to the west indies.

Hag_and_Cheese (Tipperary) - Posts: 6103 - 17/09/2008 10:21:00    101438

Thats right HAG,

Yeah, always knew about the Irish slaves in the Windies!
Sure Damien Dempsey has an album called 'To Hell or Barbados'!!

Reading a book at the moment called 'Irish Pirates and Privateers' which gives accounts of priates at home and in the West Indies!......See, theres a whole lotta interesting history stories out there that people never even knew about!!
Im gonna post an account of these pirates sometime soon.

Regards,

Snufalufagus....Laochra Gael

Snufalufagus (Dublin) - Posts: 8100 - 17/09/2008 10:29:27    101448

On the subject of the Irish in the West Indies, did you know that Montserrat (known as the Emerald Isle of the Caribbean) celebrates St Patrick's Day as a public holiday as well?

This is due to a slave uprising consisting of Irish (originally transported by Cromwell) and locals against the english on the 17th March, 1798. The uprising failed but the resistance is marked today as their independence day and for their gratitude to the Irish in bondage who fought with them.

By all accounts St Patrick's Day in Montserrat is supposed to be one hell of a session! Guinness on the beach in the sunshine. Would love to try go there for it one day.

(Lesser known fact: The Irish had already settled on Montserrat as early as the 1630's due to them fleeing anti Catholic sectarianism from the english owned Saint Kitts & Nevis islands.)

Wests_Awake (Galway) - Posts: 877 - 17/09/2008 10:54:03    101472

Some1 mentioned that vast numbers of irish were shipped out to different corners of the british empire! Interesting to note the accents of many of these exotic countries. On many islands like Jamaica, the accent has incredible similarities to munster accent!! In other remote islands, the natives have surnames like ''O'Sullivan'' and ''Fitzgerald''.. Any1 have any more information on this?

harrypotter (Meath) - Posts: 27 - 17/09/2008 11:20:35    101509

I knew about the slaves alright but 50,000 in the space of a few years that a hell of a lot, let us know what the book is like snuff sounds interesting.

Wasn't Charlie bird's grandfather from a place called ireland island in barbados.

I knew that about Montserrat alright has the island been repopulated again was everyone removed from the island a few years back because of a volcano think half the island was destroyed. Or have i the wrong place? There was a bit i think in one those books "The Road to McCarthy" if i remember right bout Montserrat.

Hag_and_Cheese (Tipperary) - Posts: 6103 - 17/09/2008 11:21:22    101512