25/03/2010 15:27:40
paddyogall
County: Mayo
Posts: 2370

598612 Another thing all the low earners in the public sector deserve to be getting what they are paid because that is all they are qualified for! what do they expect for all of us to pay for they're lack of ambition?

Public sector worker: I left school after the leaving or got a dimploma in Computer science from an IT, i want a job stamp licking etc pay me lots of money
Private sector worker: I have ambition to be more then a stamp licker, i have a Degree and a Masters etc.
_____________

What do educational achievements have to do with ambition ?
Why are you looking down at people with RTC/IT qualifications - People are going there to better their lot based on their circumstances in life
Financial/Location/ Skill set / academic ability or whatever

Why does having a degree signify ambition - Getting a good leaving cert can often be a reflection of an ability to re-hash past papers
Being able to go to university can often depend on you personal means or parents means at a point in time

Private sector IT call centres/ assembly lines are full of people with micky mouse degrees earning 15k per annum
Ive also worked with people from privledged backgrounds who would struggle to add the digits of the 2.1 that Daddy bought them in a some private Dublin University.
Likewise I work with people with no Third level education and in cases little or no second level education, and they can run rings around the majority of graduates that I know.

And whilst I have strong views on many flaws in the public sector, there are plenty of well educated, hard working and ambitious people that work in PS roles.
Likewise in both the Public and private sector there are many people who work hard licking stamps, answereing phones, sweeping floors or whatever and fair play to them.

ruanua (Donegal) - Posts: 4966 - 25/03/2010 18:08:48    598964

Nobody still answering my question !!

Cavan_Slasher (Cavan) - Posts: 10253 - 25/03/2010 18:09:05    598965

Paddyogall,

Just saw your post and it is very insulting to people who may not have had the means to go on to third level education. It wasn't always free you know and people were forced to start working early because they came from a big or poor family.

There is no need for a post like that and i don't believe that you need to act like you were born in Scunthorpe, cryptically !!

Cavan_Slasher (Cavan) - Posts: 10253 - 25/03/2010 18:23:16    598998

Another thing, i work a day a week in the Private Sector (since i went on a 3 day) and the people there do not have a clue as to what hard and efficient work is. I am training them as best i can, and another thing they are far better paid than in the Public Sector. So give it a rest lads !!

Cavan_Slasher (Cavan) - Posts: 10253 - 25/03/2010 18:27:13    599006

paddyogall
County: Mayo
Posts: 2371

598612
Another thing all the low earners in the public sector deserve to be getting what they are paid because that is all they are qualified for! what do they expect for all of us to pay for they're lack of ambition?

Public sector worker: I left school after the leaving or got a dimploma in Computer science from an IT, i want a job stamp licking etc pay me lots of money
Private sector worker: I have ambition to be more then a stamp licker, i have a Degree and a Masters etc.



I work in the public sector. Twelve years at University left me ill prepared for anything else.

Patrique

patrique (Antrim) - Posts: 13709 - 25/03/2010 18:29:37    599011

HAG_AND_CHEESE
County: Tipperary
Posts: 2224

Hag, do you not think that all that is a little bit too convenient to yourself?

Basically your post amounted to:

"I am above the public service and I want them to pay"

Breffni40 (Cavan) - Posts: 12291 - 25/03/2010 18:31:11    599016

re: Cavan_Slasher

Sorry about that I've been busy there for a while, before i answer i'll deal with the way you phrased it

"and felt that you had been unjustly treated how would you take effective protest ?"

My first point is the word "felt"!! What if we pose the question in the greater context of the public service what if you are being treated fairly, if they are being treated unfairly the yes take action firstly protest on their own time. But in the greater scheme they are being treated fairly.

The only public servants i will supports partially are the fire services at least they want to get rid of the number of authorities and just have 2 thus hopefully getting rid of management not needed. If the rest of the public service started with that approach i'd support them, dose that answer your question.

In your own case i think you have grounds for action but against manager and unions as you do not get the resources to do your job effectively. If real reform(including getting rid of dead weight) took place the money would be there to support this but public service don't support this.

Hag_and_Cheese (Tipperary) - Posts: 6103 - 25/03/2010 18:39:36    599028

"Another thing, i work a day a week in the Private Sector (since i went on a 3 day) and the people there do not have a clue as to what hard and efficient work is. I am training them as best i can, and another thing they are far better paid than in the Public Sector. So give it a rest lads !!"

Right slasher that is the exception rather than the norm but companies like that are being found out if you don't operate efficently and profitablly in the private sector you go out of business end of (area of study) , that dosen't happen in the public service.

Your generalising from your personal expirences, if that's the case their lucky to have jobs but again the 400000 on the dole wouldn't agree with you. In my case i'm not gerenalising that the whole public service is innefficent but in rowing in behind innefficent area's wasting resources that could be better used they are grouping themselves under this umbrealla.

Hag_and_Cheese (Tipperary) - Posts: 6103 - 25/03/2010 18:46:28    599041

paddyogall:

I disagree i think the public sector is educated but is not used... an educated workforce needs less managers and are not told what to do what. Look are companies like google flat structures high innovation..... I again would like management levels cut but unions don't support this either so taking from wages of everyone has to be done.

Hag_and_Cheese (Tipperary) - Posts: 6103 - 25/03/2010 18:51:38    599052

I dislike both

dhorse (Laois) - Posts: 11374 - 25/03/2010 18:58:22    599062

re: Breffni39

Where the blazes did i say that, you'll see that i said in a later post that public sector employee aren't used.
And to say I'd like to sort it out well that the area i'm studying I've an interest in it. And as for doing the same things the same way, everyone looks are the public service as a job for life hence low staff turnovers new ways of doing things so the a limited chance to progress in the majority of cases that happens in the private sector too but at least the is more scope to do somthing else. Granted if i did follow threw and if i got a job in the public service i wouldn't be back in college again at 32 more fool me!!

Hag_and_Cheese (Tipperary) - Posts: 6103 - 25/03/2010 19:00:57    599066

25/03/2010 18:58:22
dhorse
County: Laois
Posts: 5256

599062 I dislike both
__________
Is there not not several hundred thousand of them ?

ruanua (Donegal) - Posts: 4966 - 25/03/2010 19:07:41    599079

Breffini39:

"I agree too. I pay taxes as well. I also pay bills to private sector companies who drive me mental with their inefficiency."

True But at least you can choose a different and shop around for a better deal in private sector companies the next time we can't in the public sector

But i suppose i could emmigrate which is what probably happen when i finished college, but that isn't an option at the moment as i can't even get a passport!!

Hag_and_Cheese (Tipperary) - Posts: 6103 - 25/03/2010 19:09:06    599083

HAG_AND_CHEESE
County: Tipperary
Posts: 2229

599083 Breffini39:

"I agree too. I pay taxes as well. I also pay bills to private sector companies who drive me mental with their inefficiency."

True But at least you can choose a different and shop around for a better deal in private sector companies the next time we can't in the public sector

But i suppose i could emmigrate which is what probably happen when i finished college, but that isn't an option at the moment as i can't even get a passport!!

You can go to the Uk without a Passport, up the M1 or the ferry to the mainland

dhorse (Laois) - Posts: 11374 - 25/03/2010 19:18:01    599097

ruanua
County: Donegal
Posts: 3209

599079 25/03/2010 18:58:22
dhorse
County: Laois
Posts: 5256

599062 I dislike both
__________
Is there not not several hundred thousand of them ?

2 sectors, private and public, Suppose there are 2 others also, the Unemployed and the unemployable

dhorse (Laois) - Posts: 11374 - 25/03/2010 19:19:57    599103

i agree liam - PS workers never made money in the boom times, a family memeber works for lets say a state tranport company. one day a week they got of every three weeks up until 6 years ago. (shift work). the unions have the power and those private sector workers (including myself) would do exactly the same thing. if the union calls a strike, you must strike. nobody batted an eyelid when things were going well. why should PS workers now have pay etc deducted. the only ones in the PS sector who done well were the fat cats and that only made up of 1% of the entire sector

yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 11540 - 25/03/2010 19:22:07    599110

Cavan_Slasher
County: Cavan
Posts: 4284

598965 Nobody still answering my question !!

Back the slurry spreader into Head Office. This work to rule stuff is nonsense, Dung or get off the pot

dhorse (Laois) - Posts: 11374 - 25/03/2010 19:23:21    599113

Hag & Cheese,

So in your opinion a Low paid Public Sector worker who works hard and who has already been cut several times and pays levies has absolutely right to protest except in his own time !! Who is going to listen to him ? How is a protest in his own time going to be effective ?
The Public Sector Unions have devised a very effective way of protest and a very varied way, as time will show. If the public are not effected then the protest does not work as a union rep said during the week !! The workers feel cheated so the have no qualms now !!

Cavan_Slasher (Cavan) - Posts: 10253 - 25/03/2010 19:25:40    599120

dhorse,

Thats not an answer !!

Cavan_Slasher (Cavan) - Posts: 10253 - 25/03/2010 19:48:50    599165

"The Public Sector Unions have devised a very effective way of protest and a very varied way, as time will show. If the public are not effected then the protest does not work as a union rep said during the week !! The workers feel cheated so the have no qualms now !!"

True effective but is it ethical way of protesting.... could they not have called for the dead weight to be cut in the public sector first i think that's a ground we agree on. This will improve the working conditions and job satisfaction of the public sector yet it's all about money. Is the union then supporting their voice if they do not call for management cuts shouldn't they protest against the way unions are representing them no they are told you'll be better off pay wise so money is from what i can see is the only motivating factor in this dispute. If reform is undertaken then yes the grounds of pay should be a consideration. These same unions also promised no industrail action outlined in the benchmarking agreement.

Was their any protests on these employees own time first!!!

It all about protest and not about solutions..... one more time do you agree that public sector employees are paid well especially in terms of other counties but also equivalent private sector employees. I know you've stated your personal encounters but can you take that as the rule rather than the exception.

There are low paid private sector workers too but instead of pay cuts they got job cuts.

Hag_and_Cheese (Tipperary) - Posts: 6103 - 25/03/2010 20:24:22    599236