nocky
County: Wexford
Posts: 1741

595953 I think some people's branding of atheists as "smug" is a sort of defence mechanism, because they just are not prepared to listen to reason. It is impossible to have a reasoned debate with many "believers". I'm not one bit bothered if you find me "smug" Yop.

P.S. here is a definition of smug: "contentedly confident of one's ability or correctness."


Why the need for inverted comma's around the word believers. Are we not allowed to have strong conviction in our beliefs like "atheists". Do you intentionally set out to be condescending or can you just not see that you are?
Another definition of smug: "self-righteously complacent" or "self-satisfied to an annoying degree"

Yop (Wexford) - Posts: 362 - 23/03/2010 12:04:03    596001

jimbodub
County: Dublin
Posts: 4716

595975 Yop
County: Wexford
Posts: 317

595846 nocky
County: Wexford

I certainly do not find atheists to be as smug as religious leaders


Try looking in the mirror.

No man...! Look up!


I've looked up and all I can see is the office ceiling

Yop (Wexford) - Posts: 362 - 23/03/2010 12:26:16    596042

I have said before I have no problem with people having faith in any particular religion, as long as they do not try to force their faith on the rest of us - which is not something atheists do no matter what way you try and spin it.

I believe that there is probably no god (due to the lack of scientific evidence). Catholics, for example, believe that 2,000 years ago a light made a virgin pregnant and the child born was the son of god. He waited until he was in his thirties before travelling around doing cool stuff like magically multiplying loaves and fishes.

The people turned on him, however, and he was crucified only to miraculously come back from the dead, appearing a couple of times to his friends. They also believe the man's mother has appeared a couple of times nearly 2,000 years later in Portugal, France and maybe even the west of Ireland.

Today catholics eat some bread and drink some wine believing it to be the flesh and blood of this 2,000 year old dead man. They also believe there is a man with a beard living in the clouds or somewhere who can hear the thoughts of every single person on the planet, and a devil with a pitchfork living somewhere fiery constantly trying to get us to do bad stuff.

They believe their god disapproves of: eating meat and drinking alcohol on good friday (and just eating meat on ash wednesday), divorce, IVF, homosexuality, women clergy, contraception, pre-marital intercourse, and so on and so on. The irrational nature of these beliefs is probably why atheists appear smug to you Yop.

P.S. In this instance I intentionally set out to be condescending.

nocky (Wexford) - Posts: 2059 - 23/03/2010 12:51:59    596080

They believe their god disapproves of: eating meat and drinking alcohol on good friday (and just eating meat on ash wednesday), divorce, IVF, homosexuality, women clergy, contraception, pre-marital intercourse, and so on and so on. The irrational nature of these beliefs is probably why atheists appear smug to you Yop.

I'm sure you've been to weddings where the bride and groom may have a child and the priest openly accepts them. You know well enough that on the ground people are more forward thinking than the hierarchy of the church. You are just trying to paint a very different picture to how normal catholics see their church.
I have faith and I know I'm not the most devout cathloic in the world, far from it but I'm happy in my faith.
I lost both my parents in the last few years and I know my faith helped me greatly. Don't get me wrong I doubted many times.
I'm content in my faith and don't force it on people and deride others. Maybe you should follow suit.

By the way I don't know where you got the "just eating meat on Ash Wednesday", how about not eating meat on ash Wednesday

Yop (Wexford) - Posts: 362 - 23/03/2010 13:21:59    596121

Yop
County: Wexford
Posts: 320

596042 jimbodub
County: Dublin
Posts: 4716

595975 Yop
County: Wexford
Posts: 317

595846 nocky
County: Wexford

I certainly do not find atheists to be as smug as religious leaders


Try looking in the mirror.

No man...! Look up!


I've looked up and all I can see is the office ceiling

Hahaha good man!

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20763 - 23/03/2010 13:29:07    596131

What if the bride and groom come to the priest and one of them has been divorced, does the he openly accept them then Yop? Or what if two brides come to the priest asking to be married?

Of course I know people on the ground are more forward thinking than the catholic hierarchy (it would be impossible to be more backward thinking) but what annoys me is that people still describe themselves as "catholic" and continue to support the catholic hierarchy even though they don't agree with catholic teaching.

By the way I don't know what you mean when you described yourself as "cathloic", is this a new religion? Or did you just misspell "catholic"? See, I can be pedantic too.

nocky (Wexford) - Posts: 2059 - 23/03/2010 14:41:01    596235

this thread is about attending mass and although it has taken some interesting turns, I am gonna try and get back on topic for a moment.

When I was much younger I was told that if I didn't go to mass every saturday night/sunday I would go to hell. I cannot remember where exactly I heard this, maybe my own mother, but it was said and I believed it for years. Can any catholic/non catholic here honestly say they were also told this or am I the only one?

Suas Sios (None) - Posts: 1558 - 23/03/2010 16:27:26    596395

Suas Sios

When i was younger i was told that every time you do something bad you will get a black 'dot' on your soul. When your soul become fully black with these 'dots' then you will die and go to hell. The only way to avoid this was to go to Mass everyweek and confessions once a month to clear the back 'dots'.

Plastic Paddy (Tyrone) - Posts: 664 - 23/03/2010 16:48:19    596437

Plastic Paddy
County: Tyrone
Posts: 645

596437 Suas Sios

When i was younger i was told that every time you do something bad you will get a black 'dot' on your soul. When your soul become fully black with these 'dots' then you will die and go to hell. The only way to avoid this was to go to Mass everyweek and confessions once a month to clear the back 'dots'.

I use a facial scrub to get rid of my black "dots"... it exfoliates as well as moisturises


Why?


Because I'm worth it...!

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20763 - 23/03/2010 17:00:11    596461

Suas Sios
County: All
Posts: 510

596395 this thread is about attending mass and although it has taken some interesting turns, I am gonna try and get back on topic for a moment.

When I was much younger I was told that if I didn't go to mass every saturday night/sunday I would go to hell. I cannot remember where exactly I heard this, maybe my own mother, but it was said and I believed it for years. Can any catholic/non catholic here honestly say they were also told this or am I the only one?
_______________________________________________________________________________________

I remember when I was in Rang 2 and preparing for our first Confession and we had to learn some prayer to say to the priest when we went to confess our 'sins'. The priest came into the school about 3 days before the service to test us and he asked one of the not as bright kids in our class to recite the prayer. The boy couldn't and the priest launched into a tirade saying that if even one of us couldn't say the prayer at the service that all of us would go to hell! A couple of boys started laughing and as laughing is contagious pretty soon the whole class was in stiches, including the múinteoir!

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13846 - 23/03/2010 17:32:52    596535

Black dots? Mad. But yea, good old confessions could sort out most sins.

Being told you are going to hell is as serious as it gets when you are young. A threat not to be taken lightly. Shameful thing to tell someone who trusts you so much at such a young age. Its not our parents fault though because they got the same indoctrination themselves, but only because of the part of the world they happened to be born.

Suas Sios (None) - Posts: 1558 - 23/03/2010 17:39:29    596553

Woke up one night with a heartburn after a few too many pints and thought it was the divil coming for me !! Begining to think theres not a lot to this religion thing too. Went over to the chapel the first morning of Cheltenham and dipped the ould pen into the holy-water font and still couldn't back a winner !!

Cavan_Slasher (Cavan) - Posts: 10253 - 23/03/2010 17:51:12    596580

MesAmis
County: Dublin
Posts: 670

Dia ár sábháil!- brilliant. everyone laughing at the priest and the prospect of eternal damnation

Suas Sios (None) - Posts: 1558 - 23/03/2010 18:12:19    596638

I always find it confusing that:

An non-believer or athiest will often bring up the subject of religion or faith in a God and force me to defend my position and then. Tell me that I am forcing my faith on them. I am secure enough in my faith not to need reassurance that I am right neither do I see any merit in Brow beating athiests/non-believers into submission. I see faith as a gift offered to everyone and forced on no one. And it is always on offer at any stage in your life even the death bed should you wish.

Yes some parents instruct their children in the faith others would seek to force it on them most show them by example, but ultimately the individual will decide. I know some churchgoers that may not be Christians and I know some Christians that may not be churchgoers

derryman (Derry) - Posts: 3246 - 23/03/2010 19:15:45    596725

Plastic Paddy do we have the same granny from rdboe by any chance. I'm still living in fear of the black dots

CheFinny (UK) - Posts: 1358 - 25/03/2010 08:44:07    598032

CheFinny
County: UK
Posts: 824

598032 Plastic Paddy do we have the same granny from rdboe by any chance. I'm still living in fear of the black dots

Were the black dots for venial or mortal sins

dhorse (Laois) - Posts: 11374 - 25/03/2010 14:39:56    598504

CheFinny
County: UK
Posts: 824

598032 Plastic Paddy do we have the same granny from rdboe by any chance. I'm still living in fear of the black dots



My polish other half said she was told that growing up too.

Dr.Shephard (Leitrim) - Posts: 2187 - 25/03/2010 14:57:45    598549