Ive a mate who lives in dundalk and hes forever tryin to tell me that the african immigrants there get more benefits than the locals. also he alleges they reverse in to you at traffic lights and say you drove into the back of them so that they clean up with the insurance claims etc etc etc

you'd have to be some fool to believe the nonsense thats spouted about immigrants id say half of the moaners on here haven't ever had a civil conversation with a pole or a black man, but create an impression of them from other scare-mongers. thats lazy in the extreme.

cant deny thers a lot of irish racists, and a lot of irish immigrants in US and Oz became racists too but the vast majority of us are not so dont see this as an attack on our culture.

stranmillis29 (Antrim) - Posts: 788 - 05/12/2009 11:28:30    503856

I have no time at all for racism so get that straight !! What i find deplorable about the rest of the arguments on this thread is that Duffy cannot claim dole but someone who arrives from Nigeria, Romania etc can claim it. Now i again state that i am not a racist and never will be but the powers that be must rectify the wrong that is being done to lads like Duffy. If they give it to the immigrant then the Irish must also qualify for it !! Is Duffy's human rights being infringed ?

Cavan_Slasher (Cavan) - Posts: 10253 - 05/12/2009 11:54:24    503870

04/12/2009 19:07:50
patrique
County: Antrim
Posts: 5935

503288 I just read about 5 posts on the "Social Welfare Fraud" thread and was horrified.

Downright naked racism and National Socialism, .
____________________________________________________________
Pat I agree Almost 100% with your post and its not often I can say that
We are in the EU.
The EU has been positive for this country and our economy
In the boom no one else would do the min wage jobs in hotels/pubs/coffee shops/meat factories etc etc other than hard working eastern europeans.
I have a Polish girl working with me who had a masters degree and 5 languages and when I interviewed her she was working in a hotel for min wage.
She is a huge asset to our team.

As you will gather my view on politics is a good deal further right of your own however I know where I draw my own line and agree that some of the comments on the other thread are ultra/extreme and IMO far more offensive than many posts that are blocked on this site

ruanua (Donegal) - Posts: 4966 - 05/12/2009 12:27:27    503902

Slasher, Duffy (and lads like him) is not entitled to social welfare because he is under 25 and living at home. He hasn't worked and earned enough stamps. His parents have been means-tested and they earn enough to support him. Were he to move out of home he would be entitled to social welfare and possibly even rental allowance.

This issue has brought blatant racist and xenophobic rants from a number of posters, who somehow blame "foreigners" for Duffy's situation, stereotyping them as lazy, scrounging layabouts. I can tell you that the vast majority of foreign nationals who came to this country came to work, and worked harder than us Irish in jobs we were not prepared to do. During the boom time this was fine, but now all of a sudden they are the "problem". These people have paid their taxes - more taxes than some Irish people who are now looking for the dole - so of course they are entitled to it. There are plenty of Irish people who are blatantly defrauding the state by making bogus social welfare claims, but the xenophobes do not awknowledge this, preferring to concentrate on the minority of foreigners who are doing the same.

There is also a large number of sectarian posters who appear on every thread about religion, the "Swiss ban minarets" being the latest example. We really have a long way to go in this country.

nocky (Wexford) - Posts: 2059 - 05/12/2009 12:32:19    503906

Patrique did you ever here of freedom of spech. People should be allowed to give whatever views they have. Whats your opinion on the attacks on foreign nationals in belfast earlier on in the year which is alleged to have been committed by Nationalists.

Legan4life (Longford) - Posts: 209 - 05/12/2009 12:33:41    503910

Legan4life
County: Longford
Posts: 81

503910
Patrique did you ever here of freedom of spech. People should be allowed to give whatever views they have. Whats your opinion on the attacks on foreign nationals in belfast earlier on in the year which is alleged to have been committed by Nationalists.


I do believe in freedom of speech and have [posted to say so, but it was censored here, so who actually is getting that freedom on here?

The attacks in Belfast alas were by so called Loyalists. One of whom appeared on TV and said they were stopping him getting a job. Turned out he had NEVER worked in his life.

However there are many on here who propose to be Sinn Fein supporters and who are coming out with racist views. SF may not be my favourites but they actively oppose racism, and were quick to arrive to defend immigrants against the attacks.

Amazingly immigrants BOOST the economy by paying taxes from the jobs which people used to do in the black economy, and by working for low wages.

But never let the truth get in the way.

And as I said, my better posts were censored, including an entire thread calling for freedom of speech.

patrique (Antrim) - Posts: 13709 - 05/12/2009 14:45:33    503999

whats wrong with socialism? joe higgins mep is leader of the socialist party and is this countrys best politician!!!

IdeaSuns (Kildare) - Posts: 49 - 05/12/2009 15:07:54    504008

''So Father , how long have ye been a racist??''..........classic Father Ted quote. Joking aside , I wouldn't think we''re as racist as were made out to be. Most people I know would be friendly enough with the non Irish (most eastern European folk) we work along side with in the Health service. Indeed , our cleaning lady at the depot is returning to Poland after christmas where she's going to finish her law degree and the lads & lassies of altnagelvin ambulance station got her a card with all our best wishes translated into Polish for her! There will always be exeptions to the rule but by & large I'd say we're a tolerant enough bunch.

dubupnorth (Dublin) - Posts: 1897 - 05/12/2009 15:42:10    504052

05/12/2009 14:45:33
patrique
County: Antrim
Posts: 5939


Amazingly immigrants BOOST the economy by paying taxes from the jobs which people used to do in the black economy, and by working for low wages.

But never let the truth get in the way.

_______________________
Again I find myself agreeing and this time on an economic issue. Though I understand that we can differ on the point of private/public I dont understand how there can be any other level minded opinion than the one you have expressed on this subject.

ruanua (Donegal) - Posts: 4966 - 05/12/2009 15:42:26    504053

A few comments.

For Cavan Slasher, I KNOW Duffy is not being denied benefit because he is Irish. They do not have a sign up saying "no Irish need apply". I think the system has been explained elsewhere.

Ruanua, we are far removed politically but I think EVERYONE should be united against racism. We are all citizens of Europe now.

What would happen if all of those high flying Irish workers in Brussels and elsewhere in the EEC were "thrown back to their own" as advocated by someone on these threads. What jobs would they get in Ireland?

All I have ever said is that of all the nationalities in the entire world the last people to complain about emigration and immigration should be the Irish. And for the last number of years there would not be a hotel or pub open in Ireland if there was not immigrant labour doing the work.

And frankly, I am shocked to discover that by and large the ordinary people in the North of Ireland are now less racist than their southern counterparts.

Perhaps the "troubles" taught us some tolerance.

patrique (Antrim) - Posts: 13709 - 05/12/2009 16:43:45    504086

Patrique

As i said i support your viewpoint on this this topic
To sum it up in my view its not foreign people that get the jobs its the skilled people that get the jobs.
This is a very important subject and smarter people than me have a view
My two favourites

- Albert Einstein "The world is a dangerous place to live, not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it."

Edmund Burke - The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.

ruanua (Donegal) - Posts: 4966 - 05/12/2009 18:05:16    504132

JonSmith
County: Cavan
Posts: 531



Now we come to the sticky part of the argument. EU law demands that any EU citizen can claim unemployment benefit in any country as long as they are a resident there. A person from Poland (for example) can make more money here on job seekers benefit than they can working in their native country. I dont agree with this at all. Jobs in Ireland are hard enough to come by, yet we may still have EU citizens coming to Ireland to get social welfare because of the extremely high amount they would recieve for an unlimited time.

They cannot get it until they have worked for 2 years, the same as an irish citizen. We are either part of the EU or we are not.
The Nice treaty decided all that

dhorse (Laois) - Posts: 11374 - 05/12/2009 18:07:35    504133

patrique I'll ask you again as I would like to hear your opinion on the matter. Do you find no difference between immigrants coming to Ireland in search of work now when jobs are scarce due to the added bonus of high social welfare and those who came 3-4 years ago almost assured of jobs? EU policies aside.. It seems to me that you are branding making the distiction as racism?

Inactive x5 (Cavan) - Posts: 1452 - 05/12/2009 18:23:07    504148

04/12/2009 19:07:50
patrique
County: Antrim
Posts: 5942

503288 From a nation who suffered mass emigration due to disastrous economic policies from 1920 to 1960, and is now doing so again. Not to mention the "Famine" in the 19th century.

Conveniently understating the role played by British Imperialism. They call that something now and it begins with an R...now what is that??

Real Louth fan (Louth) - Posts: 3157 - 05/12/2009 18:43:59    504162

JonSmith County: Cavan Posts: 532 503753 patrique I have to disagree with you. Its very easy for people to sit back and shout "Racist" at the first sign of race being mentioned in a discussion. Yes the Irish immigrated in their thousands and now we should accept people coming here. BUT. The Irish were treated like dirt a lot of the time. "No dogs and no Irish" Sound familiar? Also the Irish went and worked, im not saying they should be applauded for this but the simple fact was they had to, there was no social welfare and nothing for them rely on if they couldnt find employment. Have the foreign workers in Ireland suffered these problems to the same extent? No.. And thankfully so, it seems we aren't as hypocritical as you make out. Recent years has seen the introduction of numerous equality acts. Our elected legislature it seems are not racist either. Now we come to the sticky part of the argument. EU law demands that any EU citizen can claim unemployment benefit in any country as long as they are a resident there. A person from Poland (for example) can make more money here on job seekers benefit than they can working in their native country. I dont agree with this at all. Jobs in Ireland are hard enough to come by, yet we may still have EU citizens coming to Ireland to get social welfare because of the extremely high amount they would recieve for an unlimited time. I believe it is a person's own government that should be responsible for providing for them while they cannot find employment. Contrary to the single EU market policy? Possibly.. But i believe a time limit should be imposed. Ye see JonSmith managed to make his point without resorting to racisist stereotyping, his points are fair enough and his argument is made against the current system rather then the entire Polish people. bad.monkey I realise that the last part of that post was a rant. I know the J1 programme is run with the US but its a similar type going to Australia. I know from talking to an Irish person in Australia that the behaviour of some people is embarrasing and in Sydney especially they are pretty sick of us.

roundball (Tipperary) - Posts: 2514 - 05/12/2009 18:45:44    504164

dhorse
County: Laois
Posts: 4145

They cannot get it until they have worked for 2 years, the same as an irish citizen. We are either part of the EU or we are not.
The Nice treaty decided all that

Was this 2 year limit not undone by the free movement of people directive in 2004 which meant if they were habitually resident in the state they could recieve payment? And habitual residence was less than a year in most cases and Family income support is available from the beginning of residence?

Inactive x5 (Cavan) - Posts: 1452 - 05/12/2009 18:47:34    504168

JonSmith
County: Cavan
Posts: 533

504148 patrique I'll ask you again as I would like to hear your opinion on the matter. Do you find no difference between immigrants coming to Ireland in search of work now when jobs are scarce due to the added bonus of high social welfare and those who came 3-4 years ago almost assured of jobs? EU policies aside.. It seems to me that you are branding making the distiction as racism?

An EU citizen arriving in ireland will not get Jobseekers allowance until they have worked for 2 years. if they can get a job here now it says a lot about our unemployed

dhorse (Laois) - Posts: 11374 - 05/12/2009 18:56:28    504175

Real Louth fan
County: Louth
Posts: 2866

504162 04/12/2009 19:07:50
patrique
County: Antrim
Posts: 5942

503288 From a nation who suffered mass emigration due to disastrous economic policies from 1920 to 1960, and is now doing so again. Not to mention the "Famine" in the 19th century.

Conveniently understating the role played by British Imperialism. They call that something now and it begins with an R...now what is that??

Recession?

roundball (Tipperary) - Posts: 2514 - 05/12/2009 19:06:33    504185

Patrique,

My point is that the system needs to be changed if a stranger to our country can get social welfare and a citizen cannot !! I am not against the stranger getting it either!!

Cavan_Slasher (Cavan) - Posts: 10253 - 05/12/2009 19:09:11    504187

05/12/2009 19:06:33
roundball
County: Tipperary
Posts: 351

504185 Real Louth fan
County: Louth
Posts: 2866

504162 04/12/2009 19:07:50
patrique
County: Antrim
Posts: 5942

503288 From a nation who suffered mass emigration due to disastrous economic policies from 1920 to 1960, and is now doing so again. Not to mention the "Famine" in the 19th century.

Conveniently understating the role played by British Imperialism. They call that something now and it begins with an R...now what is that??

Recession?

No dear, Revisionism. An art form that National Socialists, in particular, MASTERed!

Real Louth fan (Louth) - Posts: 3157 - 05/12/2009 19:23:48    504197